KANGAROOS + HAWTHORN WINNERS AND LOSERS

[mal]

KA + HW both won thier round 4 games.
HW a gutsy win over GE
KA a gutsy win over BL
Both teams were winners
BUT
Both teams are losers in my views.
Both are bringing the game into disrepute with thier over zealous flooding
It was a disgrace watching the above games
Both had several players deep in defence
Players had to criss crosss, kick backwards from both teams
Both games were a combination of soccer and rugby zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I thought the goalposts were on the wings.....

Short term victorys.

Long term the players burn out playing this shitstyle and FAIL
Unless you win 15 games a year [ala SS+AC] its a waste of time playing this footy.

This week will be HW V WB
Like an old Bodyline cliche " There are 2 teams out there but only one plays football."
WB will try and play footy
HW will flood and play ugly

[smithy]

Mal, I thought the Kangas weren't too bad against the lions last week.
But I do agree with you, there are some teams that go out to win and others that try not to lose and hope that in the last qtr are still in with a chance.

Kangas and Hawks are definitely in that category.
Add those two , plus demons and richmond to create their own AFL comp in Dubai and they might survive.
In fact they'll all be stoked to make the top 4 ! And make money.
At least we won't have to watch them any more.

[mal]

The coaching philosophy for HW + KA might be
FLOOD
Make it low scoring
Hopefully with the new softcock dont touch me rules they get charities from the men in white
In games of 20 goals per total if there are 5 softcock freebies thats enough for an inferior
team to beat a superior team !

Just watch HW V WB this week and see which team RUINS the game

My apologies to the ardent HW/KA barrackers on this site if I offend.

[jackpot jim]

MAL.... If u supported Kangaroos or Hawthorn would u rather watch your team play attacking footy all year and end up winning 2 matches cos they aint skillful enough to match it with more talented oppenents or play shit, crap, ugly, flooding footy and win 8 - 9 games???? The Fact is, in a 16 team comp,there r many teams that simply just cannot win the flag so the next best thing for supporters, sponsors, players, coaches etc. is to win as many games as possible. Winners Piss is Winners Piss any way u look at it and tastes better than Losers Piss any day. Winning is all that MATTERS especially early in the season so hence teams do whatever it takes to win, and if that means playing ugly and upsetting your day by doing so, so be it.
I can understand your Philosophy if they r playing the same style late in the season with no hope of gaining a finals spot but until finals r out of the question for any club, they would be mad not to employ any tactics that help them secure a win.

[Hondo]

Equalisation through the draft system may have taken out of the game the sides that are streets ahead of others as we saw in the 80s with the big 3 which may be having an impact on the current game plans adopted by most teams. ie, there aren't teams out there with gun forward lines that can afford to go out there and just "go for it" like the old days. Injuries also restrict many teams and so I can understand coaches going for a game plan that tries to prevent big losses, restrict the "better" team from heavy scoring and makes the most of the talent they have.

I think this is one of the reasons that the new hands in the back interpretation has come in - to try to free up forwards to kick decent bags of goals and improve the spectacle. Other ideas might be:

- bonus points for high scoring
- disallowing marks from backward kicks in the defensive 50 in the last 2-5 minutes of each quarter
- offside rules limiting the number of players in the defensive 50

Like most people, I don't like too many rule changes but I feel that the AFL is aware and concerned about this issue too. As has come up in another thread, who can blame a coach for adopting a game plan that will get him a W even if it's at the cost of the spectacle. At the end of the year, club Boards look at the W column first when assessing their coach and don't really care how "attractive" the game plan was.

[rod_rooster]

mal, did you actually take into account the way Geelong played the game? Did you take into account the comments made by Mark Thompson in the lead up to the game. It was only ever going to be played one way and that was due to the attitude of the Geelong coach and not Hawthorn's. Have you watched all Hawthorn's games this season or are you basing your assesment on one game where the opposition coach went in (like you have) with pre conceived ideas thus letting the game degenerate into what happened on Sunday? One team on Sunday deserved to win and it wasn't Geelong. Think about that.

[Rik E Boy]

The coaching philosophy for HW + KA might be
FLOOD
Make it low scoring
Hopefully with the new softcock dont touch me rules they get charities from the men in white
In games of 20 goals per total if there are 5 softcock freebies thats enough for an inferior
team to beat a superior team !

Just watch HW V WB this week and see which team RUINS the game

My apologies to the ardent HW/KA barrackers on this site if I offend.

Which superior teams did Hawthorn and the Kangaroos defeat last weekend?

Brisbane have a fairly young side and I believe the difference between their best and worst football, and their levels of performance will vary a great deal. I don't believe they will make the eight. The Kangaroos were on top all night and they missed a lot of easy goals as well. I have seen Kangaroos play uglier than they did against Brisbane at the Gold Coast.

Geelong haven't been able to defeat Hawthorn...well, probably since 1963! In all of the years I've barracked for the Cats I can only remember a few seasons where the Cats did not lose to the Hawks (1993, 2004 and 2005). Hawthorn didn't win because they flooded us out, they won because they outackled Geelong and denied us space (and that's all over the ground and not just in our forward line) and we reverted to our dumba55 bomb it in long fall back plan which has earnt us exactly zero victories. When you see the Cats do this, we lose, when we are leading and creating forward options, we are going ok. The Hawks didn't flood the Cats, they just worked harder and had more numbers at the fall of the Ball. The windy conditions also suited Hawthorn's smalller forward line and the Cats were definately top heavy for the conditions. We play at Cat Park this week and we bring in Ottens to make us even more top heavy. Bomber hasn't got a clue.

Your criticism of the Hawks and the Roos is a knee-jerk sheep call 'flood flood baa baa' which we hear all too often these days. Did you actually watch these two games? I'd argue that flooding tactics where quite minimal and that they were not a factor at all in the eventual victories of Hawthorn and the Kangaroos. Brisbane and Geelong were outplayed as simple as that.

regards,

REB

[Rik E Boy]

mal, did you actually take into account the way Geelong played the game? Did you take into account the comments made by Mark Thompson in the lead up to the game. It was only ever going to be played one way and that was due to the attitude of the Geelong coach and not Hawthorn's. Have you watched all Hawthorn's games this season or are you basing your assesment on one game where the opposition coach went in (like you have) with pre conceived ideas thus letting the game degenerate into what happened on Sunday? One team on Sunday deserved to win and it wasn't Geelong. Think about that.

I thouht Bomber's comments as well as his match day coaching were atrocious. Allowing Luke Hodge to collect cheap kicks is a recipie for disaster. We won't get anywhere with this bloke.

regards,

REB

[Dutchy]

Im not going to bite here as this is a set up....

BUT I get sick of people sledging the Roos THIS YEAR as it is quite obvious if you have seen all of our games that we are playing a very attacking style...

Watching the Lions game the commentators were actually complaining that the Lions had everyone behond the ball many times...

While Adelaide, Sydney and West Coast play this way and are up the top of the table nothing much is going to change...they are responsible as much if not more than the bottom sides but because they are winning no one has cheap shots at them...

the wheel will turn I believe...look back in the 80's when the premierships were won by teams that attacked and kicked big scores...

[mal]

Ive seen HW play 3 games this year
HW V ML
HW V KA
HW V GE
In all these games Ive seen the same crapp flooding kicking sideways, backwards etc.

Must have been ML/KA/GE that caused it ......

Now lets all watch the WB V HW game Sunday and watch Clarksons Crappaliers destroy the game

Hawthorn = Horriblethorn

Anyways Im old enough to remember the great HW teams of the 70-80s
The great days when they played a decent brand of footy and won FLAGS

JACKPOT JIM
I would prefer my team to win 3 games a year and play decent footy[and improve in the long term]
Instead of trying to win 8 games a year playing shit football[and being a bottom 8 team for a decade]

[Rik E Boy]

Hawthorn = Horriblethorn

Anyways Im old enough to remember the great HW teams of the 70-80s
The great days when they played a decent brand of footy and won FLAGS

They haven't got the cattle to play like that these days mally. Thank god.

regards,

REB

[Dutchy]

Mal...Kangas winners again, kicking 18 goals on a ground not known for its high scores???...retraction time?

[Rik E Boy]

Mal...Kangas winners again, kicking 18 goals on a ground not known for its high scores???...retraction time?

Pfft. Anyone can score 18 goals when the opposition don't bother to chase you. You should have kicked 24 goals. Deplorable effort by the Cats today. Made last week look good.

regards,

REB

[mal]

Mal...Kangas winners again, kicking 18 goals on a ground not known for its high scores???...retraction time?

How can I make comment
NONE OF THE ******* TV CHANNLES SHOWED THE GAME
I will view the game when the fox replay is on at 7-00 tonight and assess.

[mal]

Watching the replay DUTCHY
2 channells showed the WB V HW and AC V FR games no one showed this game
1/4 TIME
GE 4-3
KA 6-3
Harvey kicked the first 3 goals for the roos, brilliant
Both sides playing numbers at the contest
Both sides occasionally playing an extra in defence
Both sides going in hard
Good standard game so far
KA playing well and look winners

[mal]

1/2 TIME
GE 6-8
KA12-5
geelong making lots of unforced errors
Simpson BOG by a mile that qtr
Mooney not reported YET
Is Varcoe from Centrals

KA have a great lead and look certanties to win
The game is played in good spirit, no crapp flooding
Enjoyable hard game till 1/2 time

[Dutchy]

Look forward to your assessment Mal...one day someone might give the Roos credit for a win rather than blaming the opposition for losing

[mal]

3/4 TIME
GE 10-10
KA 15-7
Mooney took a spectualr mark and goaled this qtr
Simpson still burning, no tag by the GE coach
Edwards is a very good forward and took a speckky as well

KA led 14-5 to 6-9 after 10 minutes
a 3 goal surge by Geelong in as many minutes gave them a sniff
Enter Archer who saved the Kangas a few time

I expect GE to fight back as they played well in the 3rd qtr
I reckon Kangaroos by about 16 points

Both sides playing good footy, great game.

[mal]

LAST QTR
GE 10-10
KA 15-7

Mcavaney says " Swallow down low"....
11 mins to go
GE 11-11
KA 17-8
Its a win for the Dutchyroos
goal to Mooney 10 minutes to go
goal to Ling 9 mins to go
goal to Ling 5 minutes to go
GE 14-11
KA 17-9
THE CATS ARE STORMING HOME
Bartel steers one from a tight angle
GE 15-11
KA 17-10
still 3 minutes left
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONEY marks 40 meteres out, this for a 5 point ball game
he shoots he misses ooooooh nnnnnnnnnnnnnnno The big cat is REBsponsible for a loss after that
still 90 seconds left
GE 15-12
KA 17-10
wells scores on the siren
GE 15-12
KA 18-10

KA wins by 16 points as nostraMALdamus predicted
A magnificent fightback by the 'tennace'ious cats, but KA deserved this win, THEY WON THE GAME GE DID NOT LOSE IT.
____________________________________________________________________________________

DUTCHY yes a RETRACTION is in order the Kangaroos played a passionate good style of
footy reminiscent of thier halycon days of the late 90s
They MUST play like this every week.

[BPBRB]

Mal...Kangas winners again, kicking 18 goals on a ground not known for its high scores???...retraction time?

How can I make comment
NONE OF THE f****** TV CHANNLES SHOWED THE GAME
I will view the game when the fox replay is on at 7-00 tonight and assess.

Yep that is a joke. Surely Ch7 locally knowing it had to do the Adel/Freo game "live" into Adelaide could have shown the Cats/Roo's game live instead of doubling up with Fox in a live coverage of Hawthorn/Dogs. Then for the same 2 stations to do the Adelaide/Freo game live is also a wasted exercise.

They both don't mind sharing transmissions when it suits so let's see if they really care about the supporters and not double up live games twice on one day!