Fevola 4.5, Wiggins 0.2, Rushed 0.3.

[spell_check]

That was it for Carlton yesterday. How much further in the deep end can a club get?

[Mr66]

Not far enough!!!!!!!

[sydney-dog]

they need to get rid of the footy fossel that is coaching them

[mal]

SD

Agree again..................

It used to be PAGANS PADDOCK
Now its called PAGANS PLAYGROUND

[sydney-dog]

the problem with Pagan is that he has failed to reinvent himself, he still plays a long kicking game to a contest which we know cannot win you games at AFL level.......

back in the 90's this tactic was successful because he had the leagues best player owning the forward 50 to himself, in today's football you need to run and carry the footy and unfortunately try and kick to an uncontested contested.........

memo to Pagan

we would love to see the long kicks to contests back in footy but it wont win you games and it wont keep you in our job unless you find a way to reinvent yourself

[stan]

the problem with Pagan is that he has failed to reinvent himself, he still plays a long kicking game to a contest which we know cannot win you games at AFL level.......

back in the 90's this tactic was successful because he had the leagues best player owning the forward 50 to himself, in today's football you need to run and carry the footy and unfortunately try and kick to an uncontested contested.........

memo to Pagan

we would love to see the long kicks to contests back in footy but it wont win you games and it wont keep you in our job unless you find a way to reinvent yourself

Absolutly right there syd.

[Booney]

Look at the cattle he has got to work with Syd.I cant believe that Pagan would have taken the job when he did,draft restrictions impending,ageing stars,internal fighting(always an issue at Carlton),I would have thought he would have been a little more cunning than that.Perhaps he likes a challenge,if so he should try and get John Howard to tell the ruth,now there is a challenge...

[MightyEagles]

When was the last time that the second highest score for a team is rushed?

[Blue Boy]

Pagan - Newsflash

Carey doesnt play in your side any more !!!

[stan]

Pagan - Newsflash

Carey doesnt play in your side any more !!!

Fev is a good player but hes not a good as what Carey was.

[Blue Boy]

Pagan - Newsflash

Carey doesnt play in your side any more !!!

Fev is a good player but hes not a good as what Carey was.

I rate the big Fev as well.

The crows nearly got him 4 to 5 years ago in a trade.

[JK]

Interesting topic this one, tend to agree with Booney .. I think if took Craig, Worsfold, Malthouse, Roo's basically any of the currently fancied coaches were running the show there at the moment they would be just as bad .. The long kicking gameplan requires less skill than the high possession style, so it should be the most suitable option for their list!

That said, you really do have to wonder whether Pagan has progressed tactically in line with modern footy as much as his counterparts, I'd suspect not but unfortunately with the mob he's in control of at the moment there would be no way of telling ...

[sydney-dog]

Booney,

I agree to a certain extent, their are other indicators, then just win / loss ratio....

I agree he has had to wear some draft handcups, but in saying that who has he developed on his list, it brings me back to my point, Adelaide has had one top 10 player and has been forced to develop the Rutten's, Bock's, Skipworth's and Mattner's who have all come through the Rookie list.....

Then their are our second tier players like Doughty, Perrie, McGregor, their footy keeps on improving and not to mention our senior players, Goody, Edwards, Roo and Macca, they have all maintain their high level of performance........

Somewhere you have to coach, educate and improve players and where is their evidence of this at Carlton.

Their senior group have not improved, Kouta, Whitnal, Lappin, none of these blokes have improved under Dennis, Fav has been good for the first part of this year but history shows that he will go missing, and then thie is players like Andrew Walker, once again his development has been so slow......

In addition, in my opinion, French, Teague and Stevens all have played better footy at their previous clubs..........

Coaches get paid to coach, to develop and your always not going to get the high picks so what you want to see is improvement in your players and the team.

Their is also a way to lose, when Carlton lose more often then none they get smashed, this has to be a concern, a complete lack of competitiveness

Finally, Dennis show us a different tactic, reinvent yourself, you cannot play the same type of game plan you had with the roo's.

Let's all remember Craigy 18 months ago was handed a bottom 4 list with no high draft picks so what did he chose to do, develop players and develop a new game plan, bingo the crows are competitve thanks to the improvement of the second tier players and a belief in a game plan

Pagan, at least show us some evidence of this

[doggies4eva]

All this talk about draft picks is so much hogwash. Any player who can make the top 50 or 60 in the country each year can play a bit.

Whether he goes on and performs depends on luck (no injuries) whats between his ears and dare I say it? How well he is coached. A good coach gets the best out of his players. History is riddled with examples of non-performing sides that are transformed with different coaching methods without major chnages to their squads.

[JK]

Kouta was never going to improve, and as their "franchise" player has been tied (by management prior to Pagan) to such a lucrative contract, he hasn't been a tradeable commodity virtually since he went down in 2001

[sydney-dog]

doggies4eva

could not agree more, probably the post of the year mate

Constance_Perm, mate that Kouta contract is just another fine example of Elliott's stupidity, signing the Big Fav mid season last year at the time was also not the smartest move by the club, let's just hope he repays Carlton for that faith with two or three big seasons