Is it time for two divisions of the AFL?

[fish]

I reckon the 2 x 10-team Divisions on a promotion/relegation basis would be the way to go. Top five in each division play a SANFL-style finals series.

Bottom two from Div 1 are relegated. Grand Finalists in Div 2 are promoted.

Strongly agree with you Fish. I think that having a Higher (Div 1) and then a lower (Div 2) division where each season the bottom two teams from Div 1 are relegated and the two grand finalists from Div 2 are promoted would be theway to go.

The two Premiers could then play on Anzac Day the following year...

[Sojourner]

If they wanted to, the sides in Division 2 could always get a crack at the Div 1 sides in an FA Cup elimination series throughout the year. Yet more TV games and a total of three Grand Finals to broadcast.

[westozfalcon]

It won't happen. At least not without a decree which dictates that Collingwood can never be relegated to the second division.

[gadj1976]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

Well, the lopsidedness is just what happens in any sporting competition whether it's the AFL, SANFL, EPL, NFL or the local high school cricket league. And how would different divisions or conferences change that?

And the inequities of the draw are deliberate. If they wanted to, they can fix it very easily.

I just asked if you were happy.

An example would be that Brisbane (currently 0-7) would play teams more their standard twice, or possibly three times depending on the amount of conferences they'd be more likely to pinch a win or two. Like I said, it LOOKS like it's being evened up when it's actually not.

I agree, they could fix it very easily but they're not going to in any hurry. One day when I have some spare time I'll do a fixture where every team plays 14 or 15 home games and prove that equality is achievable.

[whufc]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

Well, the lopsidedness is just what happens in any sporting competition whether it's the AFL, SANFL, EPL, NFL or the local high school cricket league. And how would different divisions or conferences change that?

And the inequities of the draw are deliberate. If they wanted to, they can fix it very easily.

Dont think you can really include the EPL or most European soccer comps.

They play every team twice once at home and once away, there no lopsidedness there.

[Ingall]

I just asked if you were happy.

Yes, very content with most things thankyou

The AFL draw stinks though.

An example would be that Brisbane (currently 0-7) would play teams more their standard twice, or possibly three times depending on the amount of conferences they'd be more likely to pinch a win or two.

For what purpose? Using Brisbane as an example again, if they were in AFL Div 2 they would be the bottom of that league as well. Either way, in whatever form it takes, they are the bottom side. You are right that if they play Port a few extra times a year they might pinch a win or two, but they will still be a struggling team.

If the AFL wanted to help the bottom sides have a chance for an extra win or two they could simply further rig the draw to have them play each other more often.

Dont think you can really include the EPL or most European soccer comps.

They play every team twice once at home and once away, there no lopsidedness there.

Sorry, I misinterpreted. I thought the 'lopsidedness' was referring to a few teams winning 80% of their games, a few losing 80% of their games, and the rest in the middle.

[whufc]

I just asked if you were happy.

Yes, very content with most things thankyou

The AFL draw stinks though.

An example would be that Brisbane (currently 0-7) would play teams more their standard twice, or possibly three times depending on the amount of conferences they'd be more likely to pinch a win or two.

For what purpose? Using Brisbane as an example again, if they were in AFL Div 2 they would be the bottom of that league as well. Either way, in whatever form it takes, they are the bottom side. You are right that if they play Port a few extra times a year they might pinch a win or two, but they will still be a struggling team.

If the AFL wanted to help the bottom sides have a chance for an extra win or two they could simply further rig the draw to have them play each other more often.

Dont think you can really include the EPL or most European soccer comps.

They play every team twice once at home and once away, there no lopsidedness there.

Sorry, I misinterpreted. I thought the 'lopsidedness' was referring to a few teams winning 80% of their games, a few losing 80% of their games, and the rest in the middle.

Sorry my mistake then, ill go crawl back under my shell

[Adelaide Hawk]

With the number of AFL sides approaching 18 and the fact that all sides cant play each other twice, is a good next step to have something along the lines of Premiership League and Championship League as is the case in the EPL?

No.

[X Runna]

Having had time to think about it, the AFL doesn't need to physically split the competition into Div 1 and Div 2, nor does it need conferences.

All that needs to be done is every team plays each other 6 times over 4 years, therefore ensuring each side gets even home & away matches. ie 2012 Port plays Collingwood twice, once at Footy Park and once in Melbourne. 2013 Port only play them in Melbourne, 2014 both home and away and in 2015 Port play them here only..and then through the cycle again.

It will also mean sides like Collingwood & Essendon who don't seem to travel interstate as much as others, will go outside Victoria more often. Currently, it seems Collingwood generally play both Port & the Crows in Melbourne each year, but rarely would it come to Football Park twice in a season.

Everyone playing each other 6 times over 4 years would mean the program could be written up years in advance, and to re-establish it even further, I would suggest no new team could come in till the end of that 4 year cycle.

That is ALL that needs to be done.....no crap, no hidden agendas by the AFL, 100% evenness.

[gadj1976]

I just asked if you were happy.

Yes, very content with most things thankyou

The AFL draw stinks though.

An example would be that Brisbane (currently 0-7) would play teams more their standard twice, or possibly three times depending on the amount of conferences they'd be more likely to pinch a win or two.

For what purpose? Using Brisbane as an example again, if they were in AFL Div 2 they would be the bottom of that league as well. Either way, in whatever form it takes, they are the bottom side. You are right that if they play Port a few extra times a year they might pinch a win or two, but they will still be a struggling team.

If the AFL wanted to help the bottom sides have a chance for an extra win or two they could simply further rig the draw to have them play each other more often.

Dont think you can really include the EPL or most European soccer comps.

They play every team twice once at home and once away, there no lopsidedness there.

Sorry, I misinterpreted. I thought the 'lopsidedness' was referring to a few teams winning 80% of their games, a few losing 80% of their games, and the rest in the middle.

I agree Ingall the draw does suck but that will never change.

As I said, it will make the competition LOOK more even.

[Hondo]

Gadj I think you're right. 2 divisions will (may) make it LOOK more even. In reality though it will be no more even or uneven than it is now. Arguably it would be even more contrived. I hate the American style divisional systems.

All 2 divisions would do is make some of the fans feel that the AFL has less chance of manipulating the draw to suit themselves.

Despite the fact that the 2 divisions would be set up to manipulate attendances AND subject to change whenever the AFL want. So what are we really achieving with it?

[gadj1976]

Gadj I think you're right. 2 divisions will (may) make it LOOK more even. In reality though it will be no more even or uneven than it is now. Arguably it would be even more contrived. I hate the American style divisional systems.

All 2 divisions would do is make some of the fans feel that the AFL has less chance of manipulating the draw to suit themselves.

Despite the fact that the 2 divisions would be set up to manipulate attendances AND subject to change whenever the AFL want. So what are we really achieving with it?

It could be a fairer draw but again, I doubt the AFL will be 'up' for it.

Say the comp is 2 divs of 9. And 1 div is (in alpha order for the sake of the exercise);

Adel
Bris
Carl
Coll
Ess
Freo
Geel
GCS
GWS

And the comp is for 25 weeks (say). And finals week 1 is derived by Div 1 4th vs Div 2 3rd, Div 1 3rd vs Div 2 4th, Div 1 2nd vs Div 2 1st and Div 1 1st vs Div 2 2nd.

Each team could play each other in their div twice (one home, one away) - totalling 16 games. The other 9 games would be against the other div (home and away rotating basis). Adel would therefore play a min of 12, and up to 14 home games out of 25 (8 home against their own div, 8 away against their own div and then 4 or 5 home against the other div, or 6 if it's Adel home game v Port).

Carl, Collingwood, Ess and Geelong would play interstate 5 times before going to their inter-divisional games (WC, Syd, Port). Therefore they could play 8 away games each year.

Overall you'd have a better feel for where you sit in your own div at least, given that you've played each other home and away once each. As it is, who knows where you stand, given you don't play teams in order any more. Coaches used to say that they never really know where they stood till round 15. Now that's not even an guide.

I think if we get to a scenario where we have 20 teams, we'll see the two divs come in for sure whether we like it or not.

There are some benefits to be made, but I really don't think the AFL would do it for the general punters wants and needs - they haven't in the past. (maybe better tv rights if Coll, Ess etc are really successful and play interstate?? I dunno).

[fish]

Looks like it's not going to happen for a while.

THE AFL has no plans to introduce a promotion/relegation system.

Reports this morning said former Richmond vice-president Brendan Schwab had proposed an idea that would see the 18-team competition split into two divisions, with three teams promoted and three teams relegated each season.

The AFL last week said the final eight system would remain in place until the end of 2013 and this morning a league spokesman said the competition would not revert to the proposed format.

"If you're using the 2010 ladder, you'd be saying to Essendon at the start of the year: 'You cannot win the 2011 premiership'," an AFL spokesman said.

[whufc]

Yep no promotion/relegtation system

Says nothing about the league having 2 confrences though where both confrences will be the top div of the AFL like the NHL, NBL, NFL

[Rik E Boy]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

Happy with your club playing in the second division for most of the past decade? You'd never rise again and it would cost the AFL millions..it can't afford to have a dormant supporter base. If Carlton got stuck in the second division do you think that Judd would play for them in the first place, even with Pratt's cash? He'd only ever want to play at the highest level and therin lies the issue with the relegation system.

34 games taking the piss? They said that Essendon have played 17 matches already this season.
With bigger lists more games isn't a problem. It's only a problem now because the lists are aren't big enough.

regards,

REB

[gadj1976]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

Happy with your club playing in the second division for most of the past decade? You'd never rise again and it would cost the AFL millions..it can't afford to have a dormant supporter base. If Carlton got stuck in the second division do you think that Judd would play for them in the first place, even with Pratt's cash? He'd only ever want to play at the highest level and therin lies the issue with the relegation system.

34 games taking the piss? They said that Essendon have played 17 matches already this season.
With bigger lists more games isn't a problem. It's only a problem now because the lists are aren't big enough.

regards,

REB

Who said anything about a relegation system - not me. I'm not in favour of it. Actually mark me as someone who is completely and utterly against anything the EPL stands for.

Even more stuipidity to Essendon hey? That same comment about them playing possibly 17 games was in reference to why they're tiring. Lists wont grow exponentially because there isn't the talent nor feeder competitions to sustain them.

[Dog_ger]

Its time for an English Soccer Style division type Competition for sure.

But is there enough money for this to happen...?

Maybe we do not have the population...?

or Sponsorships available...?

[Rik E Boy]

Who said anything about a relegation system - not me. I'm not in favour of it. Actually mark me as someone who is completely and utterly against anything the EPL stands for.

Even more stuipidity to Essendon hey? That same comment about them playing possibly 17 games was in reference to why they're tiring. Lists wont grow exponentially because there isn't the talent nor feeder competitions to sustain them.

Fair enough, I thought you were for a relegation system based on your questions above. If they can add two new teams they can add to the lists, its hardly an impossible unsolvable conundrum. The AFL don't care all that much about the standard of feeder comps do they? 34 matches isn't all that many more games than they play now and with bigger lists it becomes a possibility in my view..I just don't agree that it is 'impossible because the talent isn't there' as we are in an expansionist period of game's history. Bigger lists are just another instance of example.

Fully agree with you on your stance on EPL.

regards,

REB

[Rik E Boy]

Its time for an English Soccer Style division type Competition for sure.

But is there enough money for this to happen...?

Maybe we do not have the population...?

or Sponsorships available...?

No it's not. There's wouldn't be that much money and sponsorship on offer Division II in my view. It would be great for the SANFL though why would you watch Adelaide vs. Gold Coast and not get to see Geelong or Collingwood? Might as well see the Dogs at the Parade. Ah, that's what you were getting at long live the Snaffle!

regards,

REB