SA Footy

Following on from this comment from bosvit:

bosvit wrote:Well Cupido, Brown and Fergusson may all be playing well but the most reliable bloke to bring it out of our backlines is the boundary umpire

Have West found some recruits that are the real deal?

I believe that Logan Hill was playing good footy before he broke his leg. Anderson looks like a promising type he is still only young has some genuine pace which we lack. Shane Neaves is a competitive ruckman not one that will win a game himself but he is probably ideally suited to a backup ruckman role. Pratt is never going to win a game himself but looks as though his absolute best is required each week to warrant a spot not a great recruit. Steve Bailey played a great game on the weekend Vs Centrals and has no problem getting the ball could just work on his disposal but is a very capable player at SANFL level. Ryan Ferguson i think is the best CHB in the league he is playing in a defence that is under constant attack and has no help from the midfield. Nathan Brown is a fantastic player and a good leader he just doesn't have much to lead.

I don't believe that the Westies recruits have been that bad. In fact they are probably the best they have been for a few years but our problem is the core group of players are simply not up to league football and unfortunately Andy Collins couldn't replace the whole list so had to keep some players on reputation. I think the end of this year will see another large clean-out and lots more recruits and hopefully some more juniors come through the ranks but ultimately we only have at best 12-15 people that are up to league football. I think Andy Collins will have the WAFC in a very good position on the field by the time the 2010 season comes around and i hope the WAFC supporters are patient enough for him to build a list he is happy with because i have no doubt he is the best coach we have had in my 11 years at the club. This year will be a long on but i think we will have a much more competitive outfit come Rd 1 2009, provided Collins chooses who goes and comes.

We are in the situation that all long term cellar dwellers suffer.

We have to pay more for the same recruit than a long term GF contender like Centrals would have to.

Just as an example if you were an interstate recruit and you had no allegiances to any SANFL club and;

WAFC offered you $30K

and

CDFC offered you $30K

Who would you play for? Its a given really isn't it. Also because of our poor win/loss ratio those players coming here hoping to get drafted again tend to drift off more readily when they don't get picked up in the first year or two.

So we have been forced into overpaying players just to get them to the club. I am not having a go at WAFC in anyway here, it's just the way it is when you are in as bad a shape as we were at the end of last year. And because we have to overpay we reach the salary cap all too easily with players that do not have to perform overly well to get a game and get their pay check each week.

This also means the remainder of our recruiting has to be done out of country zones and not necessarily the old favourites like the riverland or EP. We have had to go further afield hoping to strike it lucky, which we did last year with McCormack winning the BF, even though he is having a bit of a form slump this year.

So if you look at our main recruits, the ones we would of paid decent money for, Brown, Fergusson, Neaves, Hill, Hassan, Anderson overall they have been pretty good for us. The problem is they are not getting any backup from the previous batch of well paid recruits with Cupido being the main exception.

There will be a clean out at the end of the season and most of them will be the better paid recruits from previous years, which will allow Collins and Co to hopefully get another 5 good recruits and probably 10 or so lower grade hopefulls.

Another thing to consider is that Collins did not have time to concentrate on recruiting good jnrs to the club to help for the future.

We have a long way to go but at least you can see a well formed plan of attack at WAFC, the first time I have seen it in a long long long time.

Can we do a Sturt or a North and go from the bottom to a contender in 1 to 2 seasons.... No we don't have the core group of players they had. Can we build a core group of players and do a Hawthorn and work our way into it over 4-5 years. Yes, but it is going to be very hard work.

[quote="bosvit"]We are in the situation that all long term cellar dwellers suffer.

We have to pay more for the same recruit than a long term GF contender like Centrals would have to.

Just as an example if you were an interstate recruit and you had no allegiances to any SANFL club and;

WAFC offered you $30K

and

CDFC offered you $30K

Who would you play for? Its a given really isn't it. Also because of our poor win/loss ratio those players coming here hoping to get drafted again tend to drift off more readily when they don't get picked up in the first year or two.



Todd Grima blew this theory out of the water!

I can see your thinking in that theory Bosvit.
But I reckon it's bollocks.
Players come to your club if they think it's a good place to be and they have a chance of achieving a modicum of success. If you have to pay significant amounts of $$$$ extra to get them there - they're not worth having.
Sturt has done quite well out of low profile recruits and players from within SA, as have Centrals whose selective recruiting process has obviously proved quite beneficial.

Selective is an important word I reckon.

Dogwatcher I hope you're not seriously suggesting Central doesn't pay its players any more than West does. If players whom you have to pay more money to attract aren't worth having, feel free to start letting them go.

I'm not saying they don't pay more.
I just think the theory that players don't want to come to a club purely because of the $$$$$ isn't completely true. It's not the major reason the club has struggled - it was in a GF this decade with a side of quality recruits/juniors.
Westies did it before - with a new direction it could be able to do it again.
The Gowans boys could've been at Westies years ago - but the recruiting process was stuffed up....
Centrals swooped and look at what's happened.
Quality.
Grima going to the Bays also disproved that - according to other sources from this site.
Don't think I'm kicking Westies while they're down, look through many of my posts regarding the club and you'll see I'm supportive of what they're trying to achieve.
Blaming the $$$$$ is an easy get out - the club's looking within at its methods and Damien Phillips seems to be getting the right people on board. Andy Collins is a no nonsense bloke, I can't see him being a failure.

CENTURION wrote:

bosvit wrote:We are in the situation that all long term cellar dwellers suffer.

We have to pay more for the same recruit than a long term GF contender like Centrals would have to.

Just as an example if you were an interstate recruit and you had no allegiances to any SANFL club and;

WAFC offered you $30K

and

CDFC offered you $30K

Who would you play for? Its a given really isn't it. Also because of our poor win/loss ratio those players coming here hoping to get drafted again tend to drift off more readily when they don't get picked up in the first year or two.

Todd Grima blew this theory out of the water!

Dunno, the Bays are sitting above Centrals on the ladder... (who are both above North )

Punk Rooster wrote:

CENTURION wrote:

bosvit wrote:We are in the situation that all long term cellar dwellers suffer.

We have to pay more for the same recruit than a long term GF contender like Centrals would have to.

Just as an example if you were an interstate recruit and you had no allegiances to any SANFL club and;

WAFC offered you $30K

and

CDFC offered you $30K

Who would you play for? Its a given really isn't it. Also because of our poor win/loss ratio those players coming here hoping to get drafted again tend to drift off more readily when they don't get picked up in the first year or two.

Todd Grima blew this theory out of the water!

Dunno, the Bays are sitting above Centrals on the ladder... (who are both above North )

But he didn't sign up after the season started, he signed up before it started.

Dogwatcher wrote:I'm not saying they don't pay more.
I just think the theory that players don't want to come to a club purely because of the $$$$$ isn't completely true. It's not the major reason the club has struggled - it was in a GF this decade with a side of quality recruits/juniors.
Westies did it before - with a new direction it could be able to do it again.
The Gowans boys could've been at Westies years ago - but the recruiting process was stuffed up....
Centrals swooped and look at what's happened.
Quality.
Grima going to the Bays also disproved that - according to other sources from this site.
Don't think I'm kicking Westies while they're down, look through many of my posts regarding the club and you'll see I'm supportive of what they're trying to achieve.
Blaming the $$$$$ is an easy get out - the club's looking within at its methods and Damien Phillips seems to be getting the right people on board. Andy Collins is a no nonsense bloke, I can't see him being a failure.

No Dogwatcher I am not blaming the $$$$$$ what I am saying is that because of our poor record over the last 3+ seasons it is harder to get a player to your club.

So the natural progression from there is you have to offer them something extra to entice them.

As I posted originally would you go to Glenelg next year or West Adelaide if both offered you the same deal?

So please explain to me how we can get Player A to WAFC rather than GFC for the same money?

So we have to work harder than the other clubs at it and be prepared to cut the higher paid players that don't perform at 100%, its not like we have a strong senior group at the club, without a player over 100 games (for the club) in the club. (or at SANFL level either IIRC)

The original question was are Westies recruits the real deal and the answer is Yes for the high paid ones this year and a big NO for the rest of them.

Brown and Ferguson have been outstanding for us this year and would be up there with the best 2 recruits in the competition this year. Hill and Anderson have been unlucky with injuries and personal problems while Bailey has finally shown in the last couple of weeks he can play football at this level. Neaves has been improving every week but is probably best suited as a backup ruckman but has to take on number 1 duties because we have nothing else at the moment. Overall there hasn't been much wrong with our recruits (probably needed another 1 or 2 talls), it's the guys who have been around the club for a few years who haven't been performing to a level that they should be week in week out.