SA Footy

The talks to get the Top End into the premier state competition are on again!

From the Advertiser 7/2/06...

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SA looks to Territory

THE SANFL has reopened negotiations to accept a combined Northern Territory Football League team into the Adelaide league.

SANFL chief executive Leigh Whicker had informal talks with NTFL boss Tony Frawley in Darwin on Saturday before North Adelaide rolled the NTFL by 23 points.

Whicker said the SANFL was "very keen" to have a closer relationship with the NTFL and both leagues would benefit by introducing the Buffaloes to what is considered the best state football league in the country.

"There is sound logic for such a proposal on the grounds that it would expose young Territorians to the rigours of playing in a league which is regarded as the premier state league in Australia," Whicker said. "The rationale behind the proposal still exists today and, if anything, there is even more justification for it now."

The NTFL approached the SANFL to accept a team from the NT in 1999 and if not for unsatisfactory administration in the Top End and doubts over funding the team it would have been integrated in Adelaide.

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Great stuff... and its mostly thanks to the Roosters!

From the NT News over the weekend:

Jarman Urges SANFL Action
By Grey Morris
North Adelaide coach Andrew Jarman says it is time for SANFL executives to get pro-active on the long running NTFL-10th team issue.
Jarman said the nine team competition in Adelaide had been a sore point since the Woodville-West Torrens merger in 1990 and needed addressing as a matter of urgency.
"It (nine teams) gets brought up every year, and the thing I've noticed is every other organisation has gone forward in terms of making the game more attractive and getting the right people to take them to another level" Jarman said.
"I feel at times the SANFL hasn't pushed forward as quick as it should have. We're over 100 years old and sometimes were that old in terms of our thinking".
"We play 20 home and away games and might get some momentum up with three wins in a row before your confrunted with a bye and you end up losing all of that"
"We've got to go with 10 sides or eight. We have to make some tough decisions. Who does that, I dont know, but my belief is we have to make the competition more attractive."
And Jarman pointed to Territory officials as "other people"who had to make the hard decisions sooner rather than later.
"But at the end of the day we've got to make sure our competition is moving forward as quickly as other sports are."
Jarman can see a big monetary hurdle for any Territory team to overcome if it is to compete in an Adelaide cometition.
But he said the money gorged AFL could go some way towards solving the problem.

Then later:

SANFL wants NT team
By Grey Morris
SANFL executive commisioner Leigh Wicker says it's time to rekindle the flame that almost delivered a Territory team into the Adelaide competition seven years ago.
Saturday nights North Adelaide - NTFL game left several people contemplating a permanant NT presence in the SANFL.
"This game has definately rekindled the interest we had back in 1999" Wicker said. "There is no doubt from the NT's and SA's point of view we'd certainly like to keep the 10th team from the NT on the agenda"

Ian wrote:From the NT News over the weekend:

Jarman Urges SANFL Action
By Grey Morris
North Adelaide coach Andrew Jarman says it is time for SANFL executives to get pro-active on the long running NTFL-10th team issue.
Jarman said the nine team competition in Adelaide had been a sore point since the Woodville-West Torrens merger in 1990 and needed addressing as a matter of urgency.
"It (nine teams) gets brought up every year, and the thing I've noticed is every other organisation has gone forward in terms of making the game more attractive and getting the right people to take them to another level" Jarman said.
"I feel at times the SANFL hasn't pushed forward as quick as it should have. We're over 100 years old and sometimes were that old in terms of our thinking".
"We play 20 home and away games and might get some momentum up with three wins in a row before your confrunted with a bye and you end up losing all of that"
"We've got to go with 10 sides or eight. We have to make some tough decisions. Who does that, I dont know, but my belief is we have to make the competition more attractive."
And Jarman pointed to Territory officials as "other people"who had to make the hard decisions sooner rather than later.
"But at the end of the day we've got to make sure our competition is moving forward as quickly as other sports are."
Jarman can see a big monetary hurdle for any Territory team to overcome if it is to compete in an Adelaide cometition.
But he said the money gorged AFL could go some way towards solving the problem.

Then later:

SANFL wants NT team
By Grey Morris
SANFL executive commisioner Leigh Wicker says it's time to rekindle the flame that almost delivered a Territory team into the Adelaide competition seven years ago.
Saturday nights North Adelaide - NTFL game left several people contemplating a permanant NT presence in the SANFL.
"This game has definately rekindled the interest we had back in 1999" Wicker said. "There is no doubt from the NT's and SA's point of view we'd certainly like to keep the 10th team from the NT on the agenda"

so...Jarman IS Leigh Whicker...well ill be....

Jimmy wrote:
...well ill be....green with envy

So would I be if I wasn't a supporter off a forward thing club, with a forward thinking coach who are willing to try something different for the betterment of their club, and game as a whole.

Ian wrote:

Jimmy wrote:
...well ill be....green with envy

So would I be if I wasn't a supporter off a forward thing club, with a forward thinking coach who are willing to try something different for the betterment of their club, and game as a whole.

WTF Forward Thinking!!!!???? Betterment of the game as a whole!!!!????

Um what competition have you been watching for the last 21 years?????

Glenelg, Port and Norwood have all trodden the (flight) path you finally discovered last weekend

Glenelg 1985, Port 1989, Port 1995 (I think - they definately went up there at least once in the 90s), Norwood 2000

Glenelg and Port have even done the Alice Springs thing too.......

As I've said previously good on North for going up there this year at the minute you are ahead of the pack with respect to your preparation for the year, but please don't equate playing a game up in Darwin as being forward thinking as in this case you are definately following a well beaten path.

FWIW I don't think Glenelg were the first either I just know they were there in 1985 as I was part of the 8000 crowd (reported as 12 000 but probably only 8 000. Least we had some crowd pulling power.......

PS don't come with the NT players thing either as South was doing that in 60s and I believe a Rueben Cooper may have played a game for Norwood in the 1920s when he was down from darwin for school I let Spelly arbitrate on that claim!!!!

If the kiddies have finished I'll get back on track.
(Geez Tassie, I think you went a bit overboard to a tongue in cheek reply to a tongue in cheek comment and just for the record North played 2 games in Darwin in 1966 so I don't think the Bays were the first in 1985 and there was 30,000 at the 66 games! )

I would love an NT side but can't seeing it being possible ever.
Jars is good at making statements from the heart but I doubt he would have looked into the logisics of it.
Some reasons why I can't see it working (with many mentioned before):

1) Money, there's no way the SANFL could pay for the NT's side and there's no way the NT could afford to put a team in the SANFL let alone subsidise travel for the other clubs. Even if the NT Govt and AFL chipped in with big $$ which I doubt they would I still don't think it would be viable.

2) I was told by the locals that noone wants to play footy up there in the Dry Season, its just not the done thing.

3) They'd have to recruit a lot of players up there which would involve more $$$. To be a finals contender they'd have to recruit at least a dozen if not more players from the southern states who are a bit bigger, they'd also need a coach with an intimiate knowledge.

4) Darwin is a bloody small place, there's just not the $$ or the people to support it

Noone would be happier than me if the NT got a side in but its just not going to happen, end of story.

The best they can hope is perhaps an annual or bi-annual event up there with North involved, I'd prefer bi-annual, as I'll need at least 18 months to get over this trip. The locals including the media people I talked to up there said no team had help build and promote the game up there like North have.

It won't be called the SANFL will it...?
The South Australian and Northern Territory National Football League, won't happen...!

Dog_ger wrote:It won't be called the SANFL will it...?
The South Australian and Northern Territory National Football League, won't happen...!

Why wouldn't it stay the SANFL? the N stands for National.
Would be a more appropriate name than the VFL which currently has Tassy!

Agreed that it won't happen.

Baited the hook to catch a Jimmy, but 1980 Tassie Medalist took it beutifully

Ian wrote:Baited the hook to catch a Jimmy, but 1980 Tassie Medalist took it beutifully

Oh no, not another baiting comment, I thought better of you Ian!
Please no more.
Must have been because you were on the nuff nuff flight into and out of Darwin!

Wedgie wrote:If the kiddies have finished I'll get back on track.
(Geez Tassie, I think you went a bit overboard to a tongue in cheek reply to a tongue in cheek comment and just for the record North played 2 games in Darwin in 1966 so I don't think the Bays were the first in 1985 and there was 30,000 at the 66 games! )

Now that I've taken my pills........

I agree with all you points, the long term viability fo an NT team in the SANFL is just not feasible. Having worked in the NT Govt, in the highly unlikely eventuality that the NT Govt did kick in some coin, They would not continue to finance a a finacial loss making entity as they would need at least $1.5 Million a year to run the show, Most SANFL clubs turnover $1 Million.

If you divide SA's population (~ 1.6 Million) by 9 each club is roughly supported by 165 000 people. The NT population is roughly 200 000 greater Darwin 110 000. However only 65% of the NT population support AFL, so an NT club will have less people to support it (130 000) than every other SANFL club. I've been generous to give the NT team all of the NT, the reality is the 90 000 people outside of Darwin, e.g. Alice Springs and katherine business and people would not be involved in the team. So in reality the NT team is really only attractive in a marketing sense to 70 000 people........

Marketing reps in NT clubs have very limited budgets to work as the major sponsorship deals are governed by head offices down south. $50K is would be the average budget a marketing rep has in Darwin for a year. Cricket Australia found that out when they tried to charge down south prices for the NT corporate sector for the NT test matches.

In short the potential sponsorship dollars for an NT team are negligible in Darwin and indeed for national companies with an NT market.

The AFLNT and its predecessor the NTFL have been trying to raise the money for five years and they haven't been able to yet.....With the AFL proping up the AFLNT financially it is against their plan to have a state league comp at a higher level than the others. Their ideal development plan is for players returning to the state leagues or failing to make the AFL stay in their original state to play footy, hence their desire to have the SANFL to reduce our salary cap, they certainly do not want it increased!!!

Plus not all the NT footy community are behind it, they know that some of the local clubs will fall over if they go into the SANFL, so those people do not want it to happen.

An NT team will not play in the SANFL comp, end of story,

Finally Wedgie, despite what the local may have claimed their is no way 15 000 for each of the North games in 66 could fit into the Garden's oval, especially as it only had one stand back then.

I'll believe a crowd figure of 10 000 at a pinch, as having been at Gardens when they calinm it to be 13 000 (for GFs) but in reality it is only 8-9000 it is damn uncomfortable!!! Plus with the population of Darwin being only 25 000 - 30 000 back then every 2nd person in the town went??? In 1966 Darwin finished at Nightcliff and Rapid Creek, they were just starting to build Alawa and Jingili. In otherwords where you turned right off Bagot rd on to McMillans road to go Marrara Oval, that road was just a dirk track for the RAAF to do maintenance on the North side of the airport, the edge of the town was only another 2 km further North.

As I said they claimed 12-13 000 at the Glenelg game I didn't believe it then I don't believe it now....

30 000 to two games in darwin in 1966, I'd sooner believe that Glenelg will win this years flag!!!!

I haven't got a Reuben Cooper under all of those Norwood names, or under the main list. Legs might find that name somewhere but I doubt if it will be under Norwood.

spell_check wrote:I haven't got a Reuben Cooper under all of those Norwood names, or under the main list. Legs might find that name somewhere but I doubt if it will be under Norwood.

I believe he went to college in the Eastern suburbs in the 1920s, his father was a real crocodile hunter not the Steve irwin type.

I understand he got selected or was close to selection in the 1924 Olympic team in Paris, but because he was of colour didn't make the trip.......That is an unsubstantiated allegation so I'm not 100% sure of that.

He may have only played 2's footy at Norwood.....

Wedgie wrote:The best they can hope is perhaps an annual or bi-annual event up there with North involved

If not the NT, maybe a side representing the Iron Triangle. If Pirie can field a side in State League soccer, is there a chance for a footy team?

giffo wrote:If not the NT, maybe a side representing the Iron Triangle. If Pirie can field a side in State League soccer, is there a chance for a footy team?

Not a chance, not enough quality players as well, you have to remember the State League soccer is a division below the Premier League so the equivalent would be for a pirie side in the Amateur League Football.

Dog_ger wrote:It won't be called the SANFL will it...?
The South Australian and Northern Territory National Football League, won't happen...!

considering the Northern Territory is actually the Northern Territory of South Australia it shouldnt be a problem.

Sam_goUUUdogs wrote:

Dog_ger wrote:It won't be called the SANFL will it...?
The South Australian and Northern Territory National Football League, won't happen...!

considering the Northern Territory is actually the Northern Territory of South Australia it shouldnt be a problem.

Sorry if this is off topic, but what do they teach you guys in school these days

The Northern Territory is a federal territory of Australia.
The Northern Territory was part of New South Wales from 1825 to 1863 and part of South Australia from 1863 to 1911.
On 1 January 1911, a decade after federation, the Northern Territory was separated from South Australia and transferred to Commonwealth control.
For a brief time between 1926 and 1931 the Northern Territory was divided into North Australia and Central Australia at the 20th parallel of South latitude.
In 1978 the Territory was granted responsible government, with a Legislative Assembly headed by a Chief Minister.

1980 Tassie Medalist wrote:
Finally Wedgie, despite what the local may have claimed their is no way 15 000 for each of the North games in 66 could fit into the Garden's oval, especially as it only had one stand back then.

I was joking about the crowd figure champ, hence the . Me bad.

I did actually read somewhere what the crowds were but that piece of info must have been left in one of the braincells I left in the NT.

Wedgie wrote:If the kiddies have finished I'll get back on track.
(Geez Tassie, I think you went a bit overboard to a tongue in cheek reply to a tongue in cheek comment and just for the record North played 2 games in Darwin in 1966 so I don't think the Bays were the first in 1985 and there was 30,000 at the 66 games! )

I would love an NT side but can't seeing it being possible ever.
Jars is good at making statements from the heart but I doubt he would have looked into the logisics of it.
Some reasons why I can't see it working (with many mentioned before):

1) Money, there's no way the SANFL could pay for the NT's side and there's no way the NT could afford to put a team in the SANFL let alone subsidise travel for the other clubs. Even if the NT Govt and AFL chipped in with big $$ which I doubt they would I still don't think it would be viable.

2) I was told by the locals that noone wants to play footy up there in the Dry Season, its just not the done thing.

3) They'd have to recruit a lot of players up there which would involve more $$$. To be a finals contender they'd have to recruit at least a dozen if not more players from the southern states who are a bit bigger, they'd also need a coach with an intimiate knowledge.

4) Darwin is a bloody small place, there's just not the $$ or the people to support it

Noone would be happier than me if the NT got a side in but its just not going to happen, end of story.

The best they can hope is perhaps an annual or bi-annual event up there with North involved, I'd prefer bi-annual, as I'll need at least 18 months to get over this trip. The locals including the media people I talked to up there said no team had help build and promote the game up there like North have.

Beauty! At least some sensible comments so we can have a debate. I've gotta have my 5 cents worth.

So to respond to your points Wedgie:

1. Money
$1m you say? Well money in the SANFL comes to the clubs from:
Fundraising
Sponsors
Members and attendance
SANFL distributions

The work to be done by the NTAFL will be to put together a plan which gathers revenue from the above sources - if they join SANFL distributions will be a given. Membership and attendance should not either as on a pro rata basis the NT is stronger than SA. Tassie you numbering is suspect - first of all you have counted the entire SA population. Crowds for SANFL come from the Adelaide metro area so your figuring should be 1m people divided by 9 clubs - about the same as the 110,000 in Darwin. Dunno where you got your 63% figure from but the combined attendances of NTAFL games exceed the average club attendance in SANFL - hence NT is more strongly supported.

Sponsors - now that could be a problem - they are not many big corporates up here so Marketing would have to work hard - however having an Adelaide team in town every second week must be some sort of incentive for accomodation and the rest of the tourism industry to get behind the concept.

Fundraising - I can't seen any problem there - Nt has pokies too!

2. Dry season - Yes this is an issue - It is perfectly possible to play in the dry but currently it is played in the wet. The problem is how do you keep your reserves match fit?

3. Recruits - a lot you say? Looking at that composite side on Saturday I'd say they were two or three players short of a win. North were bigger and stronger. The strength issue can be fixed by a more professional gym program and the bigger is where recruiting comes in. Note that at the moment there are quite a few NT players of high quality in the AFL. If there was a SANFL team up here I suggest that there'd be more! Those AFL players would probably be keen to have the opportunity of playing for a home team when their AFL careers are over. I suggest that recruitment may no be the issue you think. If the dollars are there the players will come.

4. Darwin is small - yeah but I think point 1 covers this - it is about 1/9th of Adelaide. About the right size for a team to be competitive.

The main issues as I see them are off the field - do we have NT administators with the vision and drive to make this happen? Will the AFL be supportive or white ant the idea? The AFL have a fair bit of control over NT having bailed them out recently.