SA Footy

Hondo wrote:

FlyingHigh wrote:I don't get why everyone is saying the captain calling for the count is an antiquated rule. There are more eyes on the game and easier to get a message out these days to him. A field umpire isn't going to listen to a runner pestering him.

Because if there are 19 or more on field and that can be proven or is obvious then there are 19 or more on field which should be the end of the story. Why do you need the rigmarole of stopping the game (and in fact it only being a specific player who can request the stoppage) and counting to prove what is already obvious?

Forcing a count gives time for the team in the wrong to get it right before the count can be done, as happened on the weekend.

It was a rule written when the game was completely different to what it is now. The game was slower and in those days the captain probably could have counted the players himself if the ball was stuck down the other end. Nowadays the players are constantly on the move thinking about the play. This makes it harder for the teams themselves to immediately realise there are extra players on field.

Also technology allows this to be dealt with in lots of ways that weren't available back then. Most of the crowd carry a camera.

It should never be an "out" for a team that something didn't happen when it did just because an on field count wasn't done.

I suspect the AFL will look closely at their wordings on this as well.

Footy Chick wrote:

Hondo wrote:

FlyingHigh wrote:I don't get why everyone is saying the captain calling for the count is an antiquated rule. There are more eyes on the game and easier to get a message out these days to him. A field umpire isn't going to listen to a runner pestering him.

Because if there are 19 or more on field and that can be proven or is obvious then there are 19 or more on field which should be the end of the story. Why do you need the rigmarole of stopping the game (and in fact it only being a specific player who can request the stoppage) and counting to prove what is already obvious?

Forcing a count gives time for the team in the wrong to get it right before the count can be done, as happened on the weekend.

It was a rule written when the game was completely different to what it is now. The game was slower and in those days the captain probably could have counted the players himself if the ball was stuck down the other end. Nowadays the players are constantly on the move thinking about the play. This makes it harder for the teams themselves to immediately realise there are extra players on field.

Also technology allows this to be dealt with in lots of ways that weren't available back then. Most of the crowd carry a camera.

It should never be an "out" for a team that something didn't happen when it did just because an on field count wasn't done.

I suspect the AFL will look closely at their wordings on this as well.

FFS, the captain doesn't have to be the one to make the realisation of the 19th player, he just needs to be the one to alert the ump to it It's not hard, once the sidelines have figured it out, for the runner to alert the captain and then for the captain to call for it.

Goes with the rule that the captain being the only one to be able to query the umps, not the runner, not the other players and most definitely not the crowd. IMO, it's not for the media to make the call either.

FWIW, I dont' think there are actually any community comps left that actually still have the loss of points rule as an immediate consequence of too many on field. I think you'll find that most are jsut a free kick and any appeal for loss of points would go to the governing body for a decision.

Hondo wrote:

FlyingHigh wrote:I don't get why everyone is saying the captain calling for the count is an antiquated rule. There are more eyes on the game and easier to get a message out these days to him. A field umpire isn't going to listen to a runner pestering him.

Because if there are 19 or more on field and that can be proven or is obvious then there are 19 or more on field which should be the end of the story. Why do you need the rigmarole of stopping the game (and in fact it only being a specific player who can request the stoppage) and counting to prove what is already obvious?

Forcing a count gives time for the team in the wrong to get it right before the count can be done, as happened on the weekend.

It was a rule written when the game was completely different to what it is now. The game was slower and in those days the captain probably could have counted the players himself if the ball was stuck down the other end. Nowadays the players are constantly on the move thinking about the play. This makes it harder for the teams themselves to immediately realise there are extra players on field.

Also technology allows this to be dealt with in lots of ways that weren't available back then. Most of the crowd carry a camera.

It should never be an "out" for a team that something didn't happen when it did just because an on field count wasn't done.

I suspect the AFL will look closely at their wordings on this as well.

Corona Man wrote:As a North supporter the whole thing is bloody embarrassing. Terrible way to go through to a GF. IF North win, the Premiership will always be tarnished.

mots02 wrote:

Hondo wrote:

FlyingHigh wrote:I don't get why everyone is saying the captain calling for the count is an antiquated rule. There are more eyes on the game and easier to get a message out these days to him. A field umpire isn't going to listen to a runner pestering him.

Because if there are 19 or more on field and that can be proven or is obvious then there are 19 or more on field which should be the end of the story. Why do you need the rigmarole of stopping the game (and in fact it only being a specific player who can request the stoppage) and counting to prove what is already obvious?

Forcing a count gives time for the team in the wrong to get it right before the count can be done, as happened on the weekend.

It was a rule written when the game was completely different to what it is now. The game was slower and in those days the captain probably could have counted the players himself if the ball was stuck down the other end. Nowadays the players are constantly on the move thinking about the play. This makes it harder for the teams themselves to immediately realise there are extra players on field.

Also technology allows this to be dealt with in lots of ways that weren't available back then. Most of the crowd carry a camera.

It should never be an "out" for a team that something didn't happen when it did just because an on field count wasn't done.

I suspect the AFL will look closely at their wordings on this as well.

Refreshing to see a North supporter acknowledge that they actually did something wrong... even if by accident.

Lots of blame on umpires, league officials and the Eagles.

None of this would have happened if North had better communication with or monitoring of Tropiano when he was down in the rooms for treatment

Bombers4EVA wrote:About time someone else agrees with my point also.

Footy Chick wrote:
FFS, the captain doesn't have to be the one to make the realisation of the 19th player, he just needs to be the one to alert the ump to it It's not hard, once the sidelines have figured it out, for the runner to alert the captain and then for the captain to call for it.

Goes with the rule that the captain being the only one to be able to query the umps, not the runner, not the other players and most definitely not the crowd. IMO, it's not for the media to make the call either.

FWIW, I dont' think there are actually any community comps left that actually still have the loss of points rule as an immediate consequence of too many on field. I think you'll find that most are jsut a free kick and any appeal for loss of points would go to the governing body for a decision.

Lightning McQueen wrote:

Bombers4EVA wrote:About time someone else agrees with my point also.

Don't I count?

Bombers4EVA wrote:

Lightning McQueen wrote:

Bombers4EVA wrote:About time someone else agrees with my point also.

Don't I count?

Oops. Let me re-track that comment. About time someone other than Lightning agrees with my point. Sorry Mr McQueen.

Lightning McQueen wrote:

Bombers4EVA wrote:

Lightning McQueen wrote:

Bombers4EVA wrote:About time someone else agrees with my point also.

Don't I count?

Oops. Let me re-track that comment. About time someone other than Lightning agrees with my point. Sorry Mr McQueen.

Hondo wrote:

FlyingHigh wrote:I don't get why everyone is saying the captain calling for the count is an antiquated rule. There are more eyes on the game and easier to get a message out these days to him. A field umpire isn't going to listen to a runner pestering him.

Because if there are 19 or more on field and that can be proven or is obvious then there are 19 or more on field which should be the end of the story. Why do you need the rigmarole of stopping the game (and in fact it only being a specific player who can request the stoppage) and counting to prove what is already obvious?

Footy Chick wrote:FFS, the captain doesn't have to be the one to make the realisation of the 19th player, he just needs to be the one to alert the ump to it It's not hard, once the sidelines have figured it out, for the runner to alert the captain and then for the captain to call for it.

Goes with the rule that the captain being the only one to be able to query the umps, not the runner, not the other players and most definitely not the crowd. IMO, it's not for the media to make the call either.

FWIW, I dont' think there are actually any community comps left that actually still have the loss of points rule as an immediate consequence of too many on field. I think you'll find that most are jsut a free kick and any appeal for loss of points would go to the governing body for a decision.

Hondo wrote:

Footy Chick wrote:FFS, the captain doesn't have to be the one to make the realisation of the 19th player, he just needs to be the one to alert the ump to it It's not hard, once the sidelines have figured it out, for the runner to alert the captain and then for the captain to call for it.

Goes with the rule that the captain being the only one to be able to query the umps, not the runner, not the other players and most definitely not the crowd. IMO, it's not for the media to make the call either.

FWIW, I dont' think there are actually any community comps left that actually still have the loss of points rule as an immediate consequence of too many on field. I think you'll find that most are jsut a free kick and any appeal for loss of points would go to the governing body for a decision.

I understand what you are saying but I still maintain it's a rigmarole and a pointless rigmarole if it is obvious that there is a problem with the numbers on field. Letting it then be "up in the air" until an on field count seems outdated to me. It is what it is and I think next time this happens (if it ever does), simply alerting an official should be enough.

The question then is what do to about it and I don't have an answer to that question but I am sure there is a sensible answer to be found now that the rule will get a long overdue review and update.

Wiping the score seems too harsh unless there is a deliberate cheat and in that case I think you would need an investigation to prove it rather than have it as an instant win on the spot if it is late in the game. Options I have thought of could be to stop the game and restart the quarter with the scores reset to what they were at the start of the quarter. I am not sure really but I think it needs to be something that can be done in game so at the end of the game the result is the result, rather than what we had this week.

another grub wrote:Anyone follow GD on facebook?

gadj1976 wrote:

Hondo wrote:

Footy Chick wrote:FFS, the captain doesn't have to be the one to make the realisation of the 19th player, he just needs to be the one to alert the ump to it It's not hard, once the sidelines have figured it out, for the runner to alert the captain and then for the captain to call for it.

Goes with the rule that the captain being the only one to be able to query the umps, not the runner, not the other players and most definitely not the crowd. IMO, it's not for the media to make the call either.

FWIW, I dont' think there are actually any community comps left that actually still have the loss of points rule as an immediate consequence of too many on field. I think you'll find that most are jsut a free kick and any appeal for loss of points would go to the governing body for a decision.

I understand what you are saying but I still maintain it's a rigmarole and a pointless rigmarole if it is obvious that there is a problem with the numbers on field. Letting it then be "up in the air" until an on field count seems outdated to me. It is what it is and I think next time this happens (if it ever does), simply alerting an official should be enough.

The question then is what do to about it and I don't have an answer to that question but I am sure there is a sensible answer to be found now that the rule will get a long overdue review and update.

Wiping the score seems too harsh unless there is a deliberate cheat and in that case I think you would need an investigation to prove it rather than have it as an instant win on the spot if it is late in the game. Options I have thought of could be to stop the game and restart the quarter with the scores reset to what they were at the start of the quarter. I am not sure really but I think it needs to be something that can be done in game so at the end of the game the result is the result, rather than what we had this week.

Inviting another court room drama like we've just gone through? Let's keep it as is (wiping the score) so the deterent is there, rather than just escaping with a fine or covering up an intentional inclusion on the field.