Tasmania or NT side to be 10th team in SANFL?

[Aerie]

But for the AFL, their biggest single revenue stream is the TV rights. If they can pump them up above a billion bucks with 18 teams, what difference does a $10m loss amongst the clubs make?

The numbers used are rudimentary, I know - but the point remains the same as if they were more accurate.

Spot on smac - after the next TV rights deal with 18 teams the AFL could keep propping up Melbourne teams and still be in front

TV $$$ > prop up $$$

Individual club's trading results outside TV rights $$$ are going to become irrelevant

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Essentially we go to the footy to watch our team play. This way everyone can still do that.

[pipers]

Spot on smac - after the next TV rights deal with 18 teams the AFL could keep propping up Melbourne teams and still be in front

TV $$$ > prop up $$$

Individual club's trading results outside TV rights $$$ are going to become irrelevant

I draw your attention to the experience of BSkyB in the UK and the massive decline in TV revenue after the money dried up.

Ask any Leeds fan about it...

[pipers]

I sort of agree that the AFL is the business but it is a strange business where your core businesses produce the same product, compete for resources (players and $s) and outcomes (flags and wins). A regular business would not accept unprofitable regions - ie multiple Melbourne teams and would rationalise - that has happened to a degree with Sth Melb and Fitzroy but the determination to survive has forced them to create the new teams - they have been offering deals to Melbourne clubs to move for years. Of course you know all of this so I will come to the point.

The point is the AFL is slowly evolvong to be a true National comp. This has caused a major problem for the State leagues that have gone from being the biggest game in town to ?? what - I don't really know! and neither does the general public. I would say that most people that post here are remnants from the pre-Crows era. What happens as we all get old and die?

The SANFL needs to reinvent itself (and justify the "N" in its name).

It IS broken at the moment.

Yes, the AFL is an interesting model. What is the product? The 16 clubs, or the league itself? I don't know. I don't think they do either...

Agree the AFL will one day be a truly national comp (I'd rather be a Port Magpies fan than a North Melbourne fan, put it that way), I just think they could have done it better...

The SANFL should remove the N, concentrate on the local product and stop kidding themselves (and us!)

[fuzzy_1990]

The NT will have a representative Team in either the SANFL, QAFL, or WAFL within 5 years. AFL demands will align them eventually, but which way should it go. The QAFL will eventually be the feeder for the two QLD AFL teams (When the Gold Coast team comes in), which probably leaves the NT with the choice of WA or SA. The Tassie Devels should stick to their alignment with the VFL. It makes much more sense than the SANFL.

An NT side costed from NT Gvt, Private Capital and minimal AFL Development funds is viable. It should align with SA. Traeger park can seat about 10,000 while Mararra closer to 20,000. SA clubs would have to travel once a year. The NT team up to 10 or so times. It would be far more costly for the NT side to travel than any SA club.

Given most SA or WA State League games rarely exceed 10,000 these days, at best usually 7-8,000 for a Port-Norwood or Glenelg-Port, etc., excepting some finals, it's commerically viable.

Just do it !

[therisingblues]

A lot has been written on here. I agree with points made on both sides.
However.
The one tangible problem I see with the NT coming in is the finances, as Fatty has mentioned a few times. I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of costs involved with running a footy club/league, but I have always maintained that if the SANFL thinks it is okay to jump into the pond then you could just about bet your house that it is safe to jump in these days.
I believe that the idea would appeal enough and the NT has a strong enough population up there to bring in big crowds.
The extra exposure would surely bring in more advertising dollars. A team coming in from interstate would also renew interest in the SANFL. I agree with "Eye of the Tiger" in that it would compete with the AFL. I also believe that we are competing with the AFL right now, and have managed to retain our old roots much better than other leagues around Oz. Of course the AFL would remain the stronger league, but there is a mystique about playing the visitors from far away, about not just beating the state's best but beating the best from another place as well. In the good old days we didn't need to worry about this but times have changed.
Yes Demetriou and the boys would probably knock it on the head before it begins. That doesn't make it a bad idea though. It is a good idea, we just need to cross a few bridges first. But the only problems I can see is one of cost, and if the AFL would stand by and allow us to strengthen our league. They probably would not. But if they did allow it, or were a little lazy and left a crack of the door open, then we should position ourselves to leap through that crack. If the finances aren't there, then we need a sponsor to take on those finances, or make some arrangement to make it work.
All the plans the AFL has for its pet league are going to happen regardless of what we do. A further AFL expansion into the North Eastern States means we need to ensure our league remains as popular as possible.
Merging clubs is not a good solution IMO. Take the Eagles for example, second most successful club this century, yet they are fighting it out with one of the least successful for the crowds wooden spoon. Remember, two sets of fans went into the make up of that club. I reckon over half of them p1ssed off because they didn't like the merger. Sure many would have left because of the AFL, that happened to all clubs supporters. I am sure crowd figures from the pre-merger period would confirm that the incredibly unsuccessful Woodville and Torrens footy clubs have lost a larger percentage of their fans as a merged, successful unit, than any other club over the same period.
I still believe the ship is sinking and we need to grab our opportunities if they are on offer. If the NT proposal is made financially viable, I reckon it would be a saviour.

[Sojourner]

Merging clubs is not a good solution IMO. Take the Eagles for example, second most successful club this century, yet they are fighting it out with one of the least successful for the crowds wooden spoon. Remember, two sets of fans went into the make up of that club. I reckon over half of them p1ssed off because they didn't like the merger. Sure many would have left because of the AFL, that happened to all clubs supporters. I am sure crowd figures from the pre-merger period would confirm that the incredibly unsuccessful Woodville and Torrens footy clubs have lost a larger percentage of their fans as a merged, successful unit, than any other club over the same period.

Interesting point!

You do hear from time to time of people who barrack for other SANFL sides - Super Sid for example who left the club after the merger happened, so clearly there must be a number of people in that basket.

The question could probably be asked where West Torrens would have been if they had not gone down the path of a merger, the problem was that they were financially struggling and the SANFL were playing stupid games like allocating them the Modbury - Tea Tree Gully area, clearly done to try and get them to move.

The thing that was a problem with the Merger is that the sides that were merged had little in common. West Torrens had a winning culture and Woodville did not, the colour Yellow was about all that they had in common.

I do wonder how the original supporters feel when they see the club on heritage round running out in the other sides guernsey. If my own side merged I think that would be hard to take, yet that is the nature of mergers!

[Hondo]

Let's not pick on the easy target continually - it's been 17 years since WWT were born and they have more premierships and finals appearances in that time than most clubs including Sturt.

If we are going to comment on their member and supporter numbers before and after the merger its probably more respectful to gather the facts before we speculate on here with big statements.

2 historically struggling clubs combined and a new SANFL force was born, good on both clubs and good for the SANFL.

Theri

[therisingblues]

Let's not pick on the easy target continually - it's been 17 years since WWT were born and they have more premierships and finals appearances in that time than most clubs including Sturt.

If we are going to comment on their member and supporter numbers before and after the merger its probably more respectful to gather the facts before we speculate on here with big statements.

2 historically struggling clubs combined and a new SANFL force was born, good on both clubs and good for the SANFL.

Theri

I am not picking on them. I don't generally do that, and my apologies to supporters of WWT if it sounds as though I am having a go just for the sake of it. I wrote it because the idea of a merger as a possible answer to the SANFL's survival is one that I would prefer to turn people off.
I would hate to see another two sides become one. I hate that Woodville and Torrens disappeared, but I do not blame them for it, nor have any wish to needlessly rub their noses in it. It happened. I would prefer it didn't happen again however.
Perhaps I should have waited until I had some access to facts to back up what I am saying before I made the statement but I feel pretty confident about the answer.

[Hondo]

Theri do you think the SANFL has been better off for having W-WT since 1991? Remember Woodville played only 4 finals in the entire history and WT never played in a final after the 1980 Elim final. And both clubs were ridiculously close together geographically (I think the SANFL may have sunk WT back in 1964).

In their place we have a team that has been very strong and competitive and a club that pays due respect to its origins. That's not to say mergers are always the answer, but in the circumstances in 1991 it was a very good move IMO. Each case needs to be taken on its merits rather than having a pre-judged view.

If we had more NRL fans on here they could tell us about their merger experiences.

[OCT]

West Torrens had a winning culture

They did ?

The Eagles were rewarded for merging by the way re recruiting zones remember. Not a great fan on mergers , they cetaily don't increase asupporter base.

[therisingblues]

Hondo 71. I think that they had little choice. From what I understand Torrens were going under and the merger saved at least part of their identity.
My point is that I would prefer not to look at mergers as a plan in the near or distant future for keeping our league viable. If that is what occurs to people rather than try and make a new entry into the SANFL, bringing a supporter base of aprox. 200,000 with that new entry, then I want to remind people of the negative impact mergers have on the overall supporter base.
But hypothetically, if Woodville and Torrens had the dollars to survive seperately and never merged? I believe that the overall pool of regular SANFL attendees would be marginally higher. But until I see the crowd figures for pre 1991 and then do a little maths, I won't be able to make anymore detailed suppositions.

[spell_check]

[quote="Sojourner]You do hear from time to time of people who barrack for other SANFL sides - Super Sid for example who left the club after the merger happened, so clearly there must be a number of people in that basket.[/quote]

I'm sure I saw on the video of the 1993 GF Super Sid in Eagles colours, and David McKay saying that he switched clubs because he didn't like the Neil Balme sacking from Norwood.

[Sojourner]

Speaking of Super Sid, they had him toss the coin at the Norwood vs South game, he is in a wheelchair these days yet still seems as passionate as ever!

[GWW]

Speaking of Super Sid, they had him toss the coin at the Norwood vs South game, he is in a wheelchair these days yet still seems as passionate as ever!

So he's ditched the Eagles in favour of Norwood again then?

[spell_check]

Speaking of Super Sid, they had him toss the coin at the Norwood vs South game, he is in a wheelchair these days yet still seems as passionate as ever!

I actually think he has switched clubs more times than Ian Perrie. But he didn't change clubs because of a merger, I know that.

[smac]

Spot on smac - after the next TV rights deal with 18 teams the AFL could keep propping up Melbourne teams and still be in front

TV $$$ > prop up $$$

Individual club's trading results outside TV rights $$$ are going to become irrelevant

I draw your attention to the experience of BSkyB in the UK and the massive decline in TV revenue after the money dried up.

Ask any Leeds fan about it...

So the AFL should not pursue it prior to it drying up?

If it were to dry up then the propping up of 2 clubs would cease. Then those 2 clubs would also pretty quickly cease.

[Pseudo]

You do hear from time to time of people who barrack for other SANFL sides - Super Sid for example who left the club after the merger happened, so clearly there must be a number of people in that basket.

Huh?

IIRC Super Sid followed Norwood for 40 odd years - then followed Neil Balme over to the Eagles after the merger.

[pipers]

You do hear from time to time of people who barrack for other SANFL sides - Super Sid for example who left the club after the merger happened, so clearly there must be a number of people in that basket.

Super Sid was a serial ship jumper. He was originally a Legs fan. He started following WWT when Balme moved over to coach them...

Clearly he was a fan of bridesmaid clubs...

[doggies4eva]

HAs been announced that NT will play in the Qld league.

Also all NT players will automatically be drafted into the new Glod Coast team. I think the NTFL has sold out its players as they will no longer have choice and will be playing in a lower quality league than SA or WA.

[Dan The Man]

If we are to have a 10th team in the comp,then it should not come from interstate.
The 10th team should come from either the Gawler or Barossa area.