2007 Ins and Outs

[mal]

Ins and sames of the North Adelaide football club.

Outs

The kids good enough to be drafted into the AFL system.

Sames

The other kids in the seconds/thirds and colts trying to make the league team.

It'll be nice for a change to potentially get 6 players back from the AFL who came through our juniors/seniors
Davis, Motlop, Sporn, Stribling, Francou and HART
Could be a 7th who's played for us previously in Morgan too.

Those kids had a chance.
Im talking about the present day kids.

PS Didnt Daryl Hart start at Centrals?

[Wedgie]

Those kids had a chance.
Im talking about the present day kids.

PS Didnt Daryl Hart start at Centrals?

Not with ya mal, all kids have a chance especially at North where we debuted many kids who came on earlier than expected like Edwards, Pfeiffer, McIntyre, Millar, Cubillo, T.Martin, R.Ebert, etc, etc, etc.

What kids are you talking about?
You're talking in riddles again, just say what you mean.

[mal]

Those kids had a chance.
Im talking about the present day kids.

PS Didnt Daryl Hart start at Centrals?

Not with ya mal, all kids have a chance especially at North where we debuted many kids who came on earlier than expected like Edwards, Pfeiffer, McIntyre, Millar, etc, etc, etc.

What kids are you talking about?

Not with ya WEDGIE..... Im talking about the juniors who will have to line up
behind all the imports again next year.
To put things in perspective if I was a kid playing B's this year and was border line
getting a game in the 2007 North league team, I have been pushed down the batting order.
Pfeiffer and Millar might be 2 examples.
Just get off the I love North Adelaide bandwagon, and think of the potential disharmony
of the kids who are trying to crack the SANFL.
Opportunies by sheer weight of imports will be reduced drastically for these kids.
The good ones go the AFL
The talented ones left over are the ones who are stiffled.
The relentless pursuit of imports would absolutely piss me off if I was trying to get a game.

As for the ones that came on earlier than expected,
Some of them got thier opportunities when North had a glut of injuries.

[Wedgie]

Not with ya WEDGIE..... Im talking about the juniors who will have to line up
behind all the imports again next year.
To put things in perspective if I was a kid playing B's this year and was border line
getting a game in the 2007 North league team, I have been pushed down the batting order.
Pfeiffer and Millar might be 2 examples.
Just get off the I love North Adelaide bandwagon, and think of the potential disharmony
of the kids who are trying to crack the SANFL.
Opportunies by sheer weight of imports will be reduced drastically for these kids.
The good ones go the AFL
The talented ones left over are the ones who are stiffled.
The relentless pursuit of imports would absolutely piss me off if I was trying to get a game.

As for the ones that came on earlier than expected,
Some of them got thier opportunities when North had a glut of injuries.

Mate, once again I have no idea what you're talking about. North were one of the club's more willing to promote their juniors with McIntyre holding down a key position for the entire year, Tim Martin winning the best finals player and others such as Cubillo, R.Ebert, Millar, Pfeiffer, etc all playing because they were deemed good enough.

My love of North Adelaide has nothing to do with it, North were one of the few clubs to have a net loss of players last off season hence giving juniors more of a chance than most other clubs which was proven during the year. If anything I hope this changes a bit this year as IMHO R.Ebert was not good enough for league footy so we were probably promoting too many juniors if anything.

I can honestly only think of one player that was stifled and that had nothing to do with our recruits, that had more to do with our pig headed coach. Im guessing I've been to more North league and reserves games than you this year so Im sure you appreciate my opinion on that.

To be honest mal, if you had any credibility you'd be talking about at least 5 other clubs first so I assume:
1) you're purely trolling (and badly at that)
2) you have no idea
3) you've been brainwashed into some misconceptions
4) you're trying to make yourself feel better from your own club's downfalls

[westcoastpanther]

So what Mal, if the kids aren't good enough to get a game they need to work harder. I want to see the SANFL as strong as possible, with the best players running around in it. I don't want to see a weaker standard just so local kids get to play League footy. The stronger the comp, the more pride a kid can take in getting that first League berth. If they aint up to it, work harder, or be at ease with the fact they weren't quite good enough for the SANFL. Or go to a weaker club.....

[mal]

When North Adelaide have a full compliment of players available
for selection in 2007, it will invariably be the kids missing out
and the imports maintaining thier spots.
Time will tell.

[mal]

So what Mal, if the kids aren't good enough to get a game they need to work harder. I want to see the SANFL as strong as possible, with the best players running around in it. I don't want to see a weaker standard just so local kids get to play League footy. The stronger the comp, the more pride a kid can take in getting that first League berth. If they aint up to it, work harder, or be at ease with the fact they weren't quite good enough for the SANFL. Or go to a weaker club.....

Spot on mate, but my point is those kids are missing out.

[Wedgie]

When North Adelaide have a full compliment of players available
for selection in 2007, it will invariably be the kids missing out
and the imports maintaining thier spots.
Time will tell.

See this makes no sense mal, the only thing you can go on is the past otherwise its stupid speculation with no factual basis.

If you actually look at 2006 as an eg North had the biggest loss of net senior players out of any club in the SANFL hence were the most likely club to play juniors. There's actually 8 other clubs you should be looking at before North and your posts make no sense because of this, as I said before I can only assume its a very poor trolling effort.

FYI here was the net senior player losses/gains for 2006 from 2005:

Central gained 1
Eagles gained 1
West gained 1
Sturt remained static
Norwood lost 1
South lost 3
Glenelg lost 4
Port lost 5
North lost 6

I look forward to your posts about the other 9 clubs based on those facts.
If you're concerned about North I can only assume that you must be absolutely frantic about your own club who potentially gave 5 less juniors a chance than North in 2006 and I look forward to your assessment of this.

[redandblack]

Wedgie, to say that North lost more than any other last year is disingenuous.

You have to look at the quality of what's gone and come in. Listing a heap of one-gamers and B grade players who have gone means nothing.

If you replace some you of that type lose this year with 5 AFL delisted players, it means nothing to say you lost 10 and gained 5.

[Wedgie]

Wedgie, to say that North lost more than any other last year is disingenuous.

You have to look at the quality of what's gone and come in. Listing a heap of one-gamers and B grade players who have gone means nothing.

If you replace some you of that type lose this year with 5 AFL delisted players, it means nothing to say you lost 10 and gained 5.

I agree in your eg that it could mean nothing but its a quick way of seeing how the opportunity is for young players in regard to net senior player loses/gains.
Mal's discussing North and in Norths case last year it lost 13 league players to gain 9 who played league. It lost 4 AFL experienced players to gain 3.

My list above actually didn't include Danny Wise who was yet another league player who made way for a junior.

Throw into the mix the horiffic injury run North had and they probably gave too much of an opportunity to juniors than they would have wanted hence how ridiculous Mal's point is with no factual basis and as to why he'd bring up North when most other clubs lost net league or senior players just shows how nonsensical his point is.

[BPBRB]

Mal, So clubs like North are just supposed to replace departing players - those experienced ones who have retired, moved on or been moved on (Hargs) plus those good enough to be drafted to the AFL with players from the B's or the juniors? Just how competitive would we be if that were the case.

Funny no one complained in 2003 when we picked up Davis, O'Connor and got Herbert back to add to our other "imports" at that time in Hargs, Younie etc and you know why no-one complained because we were a bottom side then. Now we have climbed up the ladder we cop it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I suppose Centrals and the Eagles success in recent years is all down to just developing juniors from within hey?

Piss weak arguement Mal.

[Wedgie]

Mal, So clubs like North are just supposed to replace departing players - those experienced ones who have retired, moved on or been moved on (Hargs) plus those good enough to be drafted to the AFL with players from the B's or the juniors? Just how competitive would we be if that were the case.

Funny no one complained in 2003 when we picked up Davis, O'Connor and got Herbert back to add to our other "imports" at that time in Hargs, Younie etc and you know why no-one complained because we were a bottom side then. Now we have climbed up the ladder we cop it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I suppose Centrals and the Eagles success in recent years is all down to just developing juniors from within hey?

Piss weak arguement Mal.

I think mal's trying to say he wants North to send Davis, Stribling, Motlop, Francou, Hart, Sporn, etc all to Norwood even though they came through North's system. God knows how they came through our system since no juniors ever get a game!

[redandblack]

I suppose the obvious answer to this is how many first year players debuted at each Club last season.

I think it was looked at on here a while back and I can't remember the figures, but that would be more relevant.

Even that wouldn't be conclusive, as you would expect Westies, for example, to have played more juniors, because a lot of the senior players weren't good enough.

[sus]

I see both points of view here and I was a bit critical of NA's recruiting ex-AFL older players in 2006 at the expense of developing their obvious talent as evidenced by the club's achievements in 2005.

I do believe its important to recruit, I also agree that juniors have to earn their spot. And lets face it only a small percentage of junior footballers become established leauge players anyway. But I beleive where the club did go wrong was recruiting unfit ex-AFL hasbeens like Koops and Cox. They would have been much better off promoting locals over those two.

[Wedgie]

I suppose the obvious answer to this is how many first year players debuted at each Club last season.

I think it was looked at on here a while back and I can't remember the figures, but that would be more relevant.

Even that wouldn't be conclusive, as you would expect Westies, for example, to have played more juniors, because a lot of the senior players weren't good enough.

I agree to a degree r&b but even then you'd have to look at their impact.
For eg a club that rotates 20 first gamers through the one position wouln't be as successful IMHO in their promotion of their juniors as a club that promoted 4 first gamers who managed to hold their spot for most of the year.
Promoting kids who aren't ready or good enough is a waste of time and shouldn't be taken into the equation.

Best bet would probably be getting opinions of people who attended a majority of their club's reserves and league matches. From my point of view I think we had 2 or 3 kids who shouldn't have played league that did and 1 kid who didn't play league who should have. Speaking in terms of a net figure we gave more kids a chance that probably shouldn't have got it than stopping kids that deserved a go.

BTW Im talking about McEntee, should definately have got a go. Once again though I don't think this was due to the weight of recruits merely because of how the coaching staff looked at him which I personally disagreed with.

In regard to Cox and Koops, I think Koops was a waste of space in retrospect but hardly kept a kid out as he hardly bloody played. Coxy too didn't keep any kids out but was more valuable to the club as he contributed a lot to our reserves premiership and helped out a lot of kids at the club. Definately the sort of older bloke you'd want around the club (like Macgowan perhaps) and he will give it another shot next year unlike Koops who took the money and ran.

[mal]

When North Adelaide have a full compliment of players available
for selection in 2007, it will invariably be the kids missing out
and the imports maintaining thier spots.
Time will tell.

See this makes no sense mal, the only thing you can go on is the past otherwise its stupid speculation with no factual basis.

If you actually look at 2006 as an eg North had the biggest loss of net senior players out of any club in the SANFL hence were the most likely club to play juniors. There's actually 8 other clubs you should be looking at before North and your posts make no sense because of this, as I said before I can only assume its a very poor trolling effort.

FYI here was the net senior player losses/gains for 2006 from 2005:

Central gained 1
Eagles gained 1
West gained 1
Sturt remained static
Norwood lost 1
South lost 3
Glenelg lost 4
Port lost 5
North lost 6

I look forward to your posts about the other 9 clubs based on those facts.
If you're concerned about North I can only assume that you must be absolutely frantic about your own club who potentially gave 5 less juniors a chance than North in 2006 and I look forward to your assessment of this.

North lost 6...... nice try Wedgie
I have compiled a list of ins and outs for 2005-2006
Please correct me if I am wrong or have missed players on my listings


INS

HOWARD
OHARA
ALLEWAY
KOOPS
WALKER
WEATHERLY
COX
LONIE[should not count but..]
MOTLOP
SCHUBERT
RYSWYK


OUTS

GROCKE
STAPLES
S EBERT
GEORGE
MUMFORD
COOK
JEFFRIES
TOIA
REDDEN
ROE
GILHAM
MCENTEE
OAKLEY
HUESKES
GUM

11 ins 16 outs in that listing
The 11 ins arguably in your best team would have 8-9 players in that hypothetical team.
The 16 outs arguably in your best team would have 5-6 players in that hypothetical team.
Using my formula that equates to arguably 3 players more capable of playing
in the league team, making it more difficult for a lower level kid to make the line up.

NA have lost Hargreaves/Kellett/Nye/Moritz and Koops =5 statisically in 2007
But really you are losing Hargy+ Koops= 2 in my formula.
As for the next batch of imports???????we wont know as yet.

All done and said Wedgie your stats + my theories may be conclusive or inconclusive,
but one thing for sure ask all the teenagers potentially league standard at the club how
thrilled they are every time a new recruit has been signed up.

YOUR CLUB IS NOT ALONE every junior at every club would feel jeopardised by imports.

In the cricket ask Daniel Harris how thrilled he is having Matthew Elliott recruited to SA

[sus]

BTW Im talking about McEntee, should definately have got a go. Once again though I don't think this was due to the weight of recruits merely because of how the coaching staff looked at him which I personally disagreed with.

What was it about McEntee that held him back in the eyes of the coaching staff?

[Wedgie]

BTW Im talking about McEntee, should definately have got a go. Once again though I don't think this was due to the weight of recruits merely because of how the coaching staff looked at him which I personally disagreed with.

What was it about McEntee that held him back in the eyes of the coaching staff?

Dunno to tell the truth. Neither did anyone I talked to during the year.
The only thing I can think of that hindered his progress was that his best form was at the end of the year when we had all our forwards back from injury yet earlier in the season when we had a few out he was struggling a bit.

[Wedgie]

North lost 6...... nice try Wedgie
I have compiled a list of ins and outs for 2005-2006
Please correct me if I am wrong or have missed players on my listings


INS

HOWARD
OHARA
ALLEWAY
KOOPS
WALKER
WEATHERLY
COX
SCHUBERT
RYSWYK


OUTS

GROCKE
STAPLES
S EBERT
GEORGE
MUMFORD
COOK
JEFFRIES
TOIA
REDDEN
ROE
GILHAM
MCENTEE
OAKLEY
HUESKES
GUM
WISE

I will (and have) correct you mate, AFL players aren't a part of the discussion as we're talking about recruiting and these come and go, and you missed out on Wise, so you're right 6 was wrong, it was in fact 7. Shannon Motlop was also on our list for 2005 but I wont include him (which would have made it due to the unusual and early way we lost him.
next...

[mal]

Ins and sames of the North Adelaide football club.

Outs

The kids good enough to be drafted into the AFL system.

Sames

The other kids in the seconds/thirds and colts trying to make the league team.

This was the original statement BPRBP
Subject matter the kids who are potential league footballers and thier prospects in 2007.

BPRBP and your NA stablemates NO mention about the righteousness and ethical ways
to run and manage football clubs which we have discussed in various forums and sites
about 1,654,872,987,005,000 times.
And just for the record for the 1,654,872,987,005,001 th time I agree with you that as an
sanfl club you must recruit extensively or perish.
I enjoy watching some of the NA recruits play Roe/Gill etc are fantastic to watch... BUT

Simple logic from every club
More recruits = less likelyhood of a junior making the league team.