Rd 2 2008 Sturt vs. Centrals @ Unley Oval

[Jardog]

Well Rowston and williams do look alike.

[Blue Boy]

Thought Col was OK last week with us certainly wasn't perfect but he let the game go to an extent and paid free kicks to the bloke first to the footy like he did in last years Elim Final.

Tas

He is always good at Glenelg games

[am Bays]

Mate he is the same at all games I see he protects teh bloke going for teh ball and gives him teh opportunity to dispose of it unless he has had prior....

Hardest job out their on the field before you criticise them walk a mile in their shows or at least a quarter....

[Blue Boy]

Mate he is the same at all games I see he protects teh bloke going for teh ball and gives him teh opportunity to dispose of it unless he has had prior....

Hardest job out their on the field before you criticise them walk a mile in their shows or at least a quarter....

Have umpired Tas - not at that level so maybe have a crack at another level !!!

Or go walkin somewhere yourself !!!

[CedeNullis]

Mate he is the same at all games I see he protects teh bloke going for teh ball and gives him teh opportunity to dispose of it unless he has had prior....

Hardest job out their on the field before you criticise them walk a mile in their shows or at least a quarter....

Granted Tassie, it always easier from the Stands. But "the holding ball" call (s) definitely had two different "applications" on Saturday. Wouldn't have changed the result though.

[Jardog]

Tassie is a Rowston lover I think

[grant j]

You aren't an umpire yourself are grant j... ?

Is that an alias for one Colin Rowston !! ??

I get your point mate, still doesn't mean I think the umpiring was up to standard...

GO U DOGGIES...

Big Phil...

No, not an umpire. just heard Buckley on the radio saying he got off the AFL rules committee because they were just confusing the game with too many rules. Which not only confused the umpires but frustrated the players and spectators. Like he said we need to simplify the game not complicate it.

I'm just looking at things without putting emotion into the equation.
Mind you no-one can understand some umpiring decisions, including the rule makers

[Big Phil]

You aren't an umpire yourself are grant j... ?

Is that an alias for one Colin Rowston !! ??

I get your point mate, still doesn't mean I think the umpiring was up to standard...

GO U DOGGIES...

Big Phil...

No, not an umpire. just heard Buckley on the radio saying he got off the AFL rules committee because they were just confusing the game with too many rules. Which not only confused the umpires but frustrated the players and spectators. Like he said we need to simplify the game not complicate it.

I'm just looking at things without putting emotion into the equation.
Mind you no-one can understand some umpiring decisions, including the rule makers

That is sooo SPOT ON THE MONEY grant j,

The other thing that annoys me is the consistancy of umpiring on a weekly basis...

If you are going to try and keep up with the AFL and bring in new interpretations and rules, adhere to them and police them ON A WEEKLY BASIS

As much as I hate the umpiring sometimes, and like most are quick to bag them, I can recall some games (not many though) when it felt like their weren't any umpires out there because they let the game flow naturally and that's when the players are at their best and we as a spectator walk away feeling like we got value for our money, not reflecting on an over umpired dominated game of footy.

One week they are okay and might only pay 25 frees for the game, the next, they are too god damn controlling and can pay up to 50 or 60 free kicks in a single bloody game !!? That is not good as a spectacle and no doubt, makes it frustrating for the players and coaches alike.

I know it was in the AFL but wasn't there something like 75 free kicks paid in a game last week ? I remember Sam Newman harping on about it, watching last weeks Footy Show. As much as I think he is a bit of a d***khead sometimes, he made one of the most accurate statements, about 3 things in our great game, that I have heard in a long long time... He went on to say that...

1. The standard of ruck work has not improved in the last 40 years...

2. The standard of players kicking for goal has not improved in the last 40 years...

AND 3. THE QUALITY OF UMPIRING HAS NOT IMPROVED AT ALL...

Do a degree, the ever so pertinent point at number 3 is actually one of the influences behind the top 2 points.

With all the rule changes involving ruckman and the centre circle set up, some of the games big fellas today don't have the same influence as yesteryears rucking fraternity. I reckon if you spoke to any ruckman to ever play the game and the majority of them would prefer to have the open range range up to go into a ball up how they see fit. Some would say that this new rule was to a degree, the death of Power big man Mathew Primus. Now I know that players can have a free run up at ball ups around the ground, but you hardly ever see it anymore, if not at all, because they are now forced to lock horns (or arms in a wrestle) and the stronger bigger bloke wins out.

It didn't always have to be about strength before the rule changes, skinner athletic guys where still able to win their fair share of hits outs and be competitive enough. For god sake, remember when ex Crow Trent Ormond-Allen opposed himslef to then St. Kilda star "Spida" Everitt in a few rucking contests out at Waverley I think ? Anyway, that just wouldn't happen nowadays because the smaller guys just get tossed about.

The goal kicking standards not improvong isn't really affected by umpiring influences as such, maybe just now that they are only given 30 seconds or whatever it is to take their set shots, they may not concentrate as much as if they had a bit longer. I mean guys like Che Cockatoo- Collins and even probably Mathew Lloyd, who have lenghty "routines" when lining up, may feel the affect more so than others.

Anyway, I just reckon the UMPIRE FRATERNITY needs to concentrate on consistancy, week in week out, just like players have to. I know it has been publisised before about a lack of people getting interested in umpiring, but I wonder if, just like players, the umpire's performance isn't up to scratch or what's expected, that he would find himself running around in the reserves ??!!

If it was me in charge, based on Colin Rowstons performance on th weekend, I reckon he'd be lucky to get a gig doing the mini league !!??

GO U DOGGIES...

Big Phil...

[Dutchy]

from a neutral perspective why was the crowd so small?

would have thought at least 5k?

[smac]

Is 4,000 really small though?

I know we all expected/tipped more, but perhaps our expectations were off - lots of footy trial games etc clashing with the Saturday afternoon. It seems night games are becoming the real crowd favourites.

[sturtpeter]

Tassie, given Glenelg's 1 point victory against us in last year's Elimination Final, a few SACA members irate at one particular Umpire and Glenelg's exit in the last kick against the Eagles a week later, I wonder which Ump is Glenelg's alleged favourite??

[am Bays]

Tassie, given Glenelg's 1 point victory against us in last year's Elimination Final, a few SACA members irate at one particular Umpire and Glenelg's exit in the last kick against the Eagles a week later, I wonder which Ump is Glenelg's alleged favourite??

We didn't win becasue of an umpire

We won becasue you did what many Central supporters complained about their side doing against Sturt on Saturday - flooding. When you flooded back against us in the elimination final you had no-one to kick to on half forward line - consequently the ball very rarely got to Chambers for the number of times you had possession. We just kept getting it and working it forward again.

One side was trying to win in the elimination final, the other side was trying not to lose. As I've said on here before I was very confident of winning that final from halfway through the 2nd qtr when you blokes stopped attacking the footy in teh same manner you did in the first qtr and a half.

Colin isn't a Glenelg favourite but he rewards teams going for the footy. We went for the footy in the Elimation final we got the free kicks. You blokes went for the footy on Saturday, you blokes got the free kicks

It ain't rocket science....

[sturtpeter]

It may not be Rocket Science buddy but the inappropriate discrepancy in frees i.e. 33-20 is totally out of order.

[Big Phil]

Give the Double Blues credit, we were beaten by a better team on the day, but I will say one thing. We were our own worst enemy today with very poor decision making and costly skill turn overs. I say more about this in my match report, which I'll copy over from the Centrals forum shortly. Also, despite the very poor umpiring today, we gave away too many 25 metre penalties (even if they were soft !!?) and we need to work on our discipline as the umpires seem keen to police everything to the letter of the law this year.

Those turn overs, resulting from poor kick ins after a point score, did not help much as this enabled Sturt to kick at least 4 goals!! This is an area that I'm sure will be "look at" during training this week.

Hey All,

I agree John H, for what ever reason we couldn't get an efficient system to clear the ball from our last line of defence. It was a bit suprising because normally we have a really good set play that has worked well from kick outs. Usually Adam Switala will take the kick and with either Sibba or Hav (or whoever is the bigger bloke playing on the last line) will stand close close by to the opposition full forward standing the mark at the top of the goal square. Switty (or the kicker outerer) will fake as if he is going to kick it long to one side of the ground. As he goes to take the kick he just kicks it to himself, playing on and then "switches", going to the other side of the ground. With the big backline player close to the encroaching full forward, a BIG sheppard is laid and Switty is usually able to run and carry the ball a bit, then get his kick to the next contest, which is closer to the wing, clearing the back 50.

I think one of 2 things have happened of late. Firstly, we have been doing it for probably the last 2 or 3 years so I reckon teams are now cottening on to it and setting zones deeper, blocking up that extra run and carry from our defenders. Secondly, we don't seem to be attempting it with any conviction, as clearly shown with a few examples on the weekend. The downfall to this however, is when blokes aren't executing their skills at a a level we have come to expect in recent years, oppsotion teams now seem to be punishing us with scoreboard pressure. With the newer breed of young guys like Goodrem, Williams, Boyle and Hayes having their opportunities in defence, their lack of tough, hardened footy experience, IS showing through. Therefore, with a little bit of extra pressure by oppsoition forwards, (which is EXACTLY what coaches are expecting of their forwards MORE and MORE in the modern game) the lesser known players are feeling this pressure and their skills are faulting to a degree.

I dont want to harp on it, but I honestly reckon there are too many people who underestimate the loss of Nathan Grima. Before anyone says "stop harping on about it, it's in the past" I just feel like we didn't do enough in terms of recruiting to back up our big man department "in general". Yeah we got another ruckman in Earl Shaw BUT we didn't cover the loss of Grima and Obst (to a lesser degree) and hunt down a quality "key position" player or two. I must admit, I was a little bit dissapointed (as I've mentioned on here before) to see Craig Gogoll go to the Eagles. I know he was starved of opportunity but I reckon he was a little bit under rated and COULD have turned out to be a CLOSE replacement to Grima. Good luck to Craig at Woodville West Torrens.

Unfortunately, it is a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul when people throw up using Havelberg in defence and Schell at hlaf forward. Hav did a wonderful job on Perrie at the weekend and Schell was okay at Full Forward BUT i reckon we look better with Hav in the goalsquare (plus he is a better kick on goal) and Schelly at CHB. The other concern for me is that apart from MAYBE Matty Westhoff, we don't have too much "key position" quality coming throught the twos. We will have to rely on Heater and Sponge to be firing consistantly when we come accross taller opposition and require Hav to play in defence. Unfortunatelty both of out Victorian born CHF's where very dissapointing on the weekend and will be keen to atone the performance they put up, coming out against Norwood this week, with excellent games.

GO U DOGGIES...

Just my opinion but I reckon there will be a few that agree...

Big Phil...

[Dogwatcher]

The other thing about Swooper kicking out is that his leg is normally spot on. He rarely misses a target.

[bulldogproud]

Agreeing totally re the lack of big men and the extent of missing Grima and Obst. I would also not underestimate the loss of Brad Symes. Although not a tall, he was critical in our team plan. Will be better with the imminent return of James Gowans, Luke McCabe and Cameron Faulkner (together possibly with Nathan Steinberner) but we will still be short in the big-man department. Is Jeremy Aufderheide still around?

Cheers

[Big Phil]

Agreeing totally re the lack of big men and the extent of missing Grima and Obst. I would also not underestimate the loss of Brad Symes. Although not a tall, he was critical in our team plan. Will be better with the imminent return of James Gowans, Luke McCabe and Cameron Faulkner (together possibly with Nathan Steinberner) but we will still be short in the big-man department. Is Jeremy Aufderheide still around?

Cheers

You are definately right about Symsey as well. Did rotate a fair bit through the middle, but he was very valuable as a running defender off hlaf back and he was probably versatile enough to play on either a small or a tall. I mean the lad came pretty close to winning a Magarey Medal, unbelievably didn't poll votes early in the season when he was at his best. Anyway, I'm really happy for Brad that he is doing well in a crows jumper. He obviously just feels comfortable in a tri colour, horizontally striped gurnsey !!? As much as I hope he plays all year with Adelaide, it would be very handy to see him back for a few games here and there. Maybe just 3 so he qualifies for finals, assuming the SANFL hasn't changed that unbelievably stupid rule. !!?

As for Aufderheide, I saw him at Unley on the weekend in the grandstand with his team jumper on so I would assume he is still keen to play. I read somewhere the other week he had a soft tissue injury (or soemthing like that) andf he was hoping to be back come rounds 2 or 3 ? I just don't know whether Jezz will ever be the same player he was before he did his knee. I reckon he has the strength to go with the bigger forwards, but even before the knee reco, I reckon he was always caught out with a lack of "BURST SPEED" off the mark and his opposition was able to get that 2 or 3 steps clear, getting the ball on the lead.

Hey, I would be more than happy to be proved wrong, but I guess it will be a confidence thing for the big number 41 as to how much trust he has in the knee. If he can get back to even 80% of what he used to be, he might actually find himself getting a few league games here and there when we come accross teams with a tller forwars line ? Only time will time, good luck Jezza.

GO U DOGGIES...

Big Phil...

[sturtpeter]

Chris!

Will you be at AO for the Grand Final Replay?

God Bless!
Pete

[Grahaml]

I'm sure you'll all understand that since I hate losing I'm not terribly keen on reading the rest of the posts on here but thought I'd put in my two cents worth on the game, so here goes. Apologies if anyone said this stuff before.

Firstly I must say that Sturt followed my gameplan on how to beat the dogs perfectly. Put pressure on and forced turnovers that resulted in many good chances to score. Chambers used his speed against Sibenaler rather than trying to go one on one whenever he could, and if he'd worked a little harder could have gotten the ball more in front than wide. He needs to learn that the deeper the season goes the more you have to try to lead up the middle and get higher percentage shots than settling for the space on the boundary. The response would be that there was no space in the middle, and that's why I say there needs to be a greater work ethic to create space where he wants it, not settling for the space that the dogs let him have. And after kicking 3.5 I'm sure it was obvious later why he was allowed the wide space rather than space in front. Although his kicking made me think he was carrying an injury of some sort. But the major factor in the win was the way Sturt got the ball from dogs turnovers and could run hard forward into space and hurt on the rebound. A combination of the pressure from Sturt and early season malaise in skills, workrate and some confusion about who goes where on the dogs behalf was responsible for this. The latter may not contribute so much later on in the season, and so I think Sturt still need to work on setting up play by getting the ball from the contests more. Turnovers will always happen under pressure, but if you rely too much on that then finals won't be won. Sturt did get their own play late in the game, but since the game was over there is little currency in that.

However, let's not get too carried away. The dogs have good players to come back in with Ware, Gowans, Faulkner, McCabe and Steinberner returning last game or about to resume, not to mention some of the kids in the ressies who may well get promoted from the 2s over the next few weeks if any of them put their hand up. The big improvement will as always come from the first 21 though. Skills always improve, the gameplan always comes together and the forward structure always begins to function better from round 12 onward. I have no reason to think it won't all improve again this season so for me the first 10 games of so are about seeing where the kids are at, keeping the players fresh and ticking the wins over before really winding the game up to get the game as close to 100% for September and October. The dogs were ordinary, but somehow, again, remained in the contest until fairly late before a burst from the blues ensured a comfortable margin.

Sturt were good, no doubt, but there were a couple of issues I'm sure Ricky would want to address.

1. Some midfielders gambled too much on turnovers, or were simply too lazy to chase. the number of times Thompson and Sheedy in particular got the ball in space because they didn't chase their man when the dogs had possession might pay off in round 2, but they have to tighten up and work hard to get space when the turnover happens, and not before.

2. Perrie was too easily held by Havelberg. I know Perrie usually tries to run his opponent around but he can't rely just on that. He's bigger, stronger and more experienced than Havelberg, but Havelberg should and did have the legs to run with him. Perrie needed to use his size more often and try to go one on one with Havelberg whenever he could. Perrie is one of the most talented forwards in the comp and to waste that talent by playing to his man's strength would be dissapointing IMHO.

3. The reliance on AFL listed players. Thompson again was the one who did the most damage, just like round 8 last year. Bentley and Deluca also hurt the dogs. But let's not forget they're 2 months ahead of SANFL players. As the season wear on the SANFL players will improve as their training regimes put more power into the legs as the season goes on, but the young legs of those AFL players especially might just drop off if they start to carry injuries. Sturt need more winners to come through their own ranks to protect them if they lose their AFL players to the power, or if they just can't keep their current form going.

4. Fabian Deluca. Yep, he hurt us alright. But considering he looks like he's playing against the mini league then he should. The problem was he didn't hurt us enough. Dropped easy marks when we just kicked it straight to him, and worst of all dropped his head and just palmed the ball down when he heard a few footsteps coming on one occasion in particular. Would be desperately hoping Williams doesn't find out about that one because he won't get the 2 foot height advantage in the AFL. No player should pull out of a marking attempt because there is a pack bearing down on them, but when you're the biggest bloke on the ground it's just plain embarrasing.

5. Just like round 8 last year Sturt didn't put the dogs away when they should have. Perhaps this was because again the dogs were winning the contests when the ball hit the beck (in my opinion at least) but really, Sturt should have well and truly wrapped the game up during the third quarter, such was the disparity in play between the 2 sides on Saturday.

For the dogs, I don't think there's so many questions to be answered. Sturt have question marks over them partly because of where they went from their superb win last year. I'm sure they will improve on their 2007 end to the season but never-the-less when the dogs have done it 8 seasons in a row, it's easier to expect they will do it again. Instead, the dogs for me have a list of things that should (and hopefully) improve as the season wears on. Those being:

1. Skills. Lawry, Cowan (and to a lesser extent Schell) dropped too many easy marks. We know hese guys have good hands. The result was our forward line didn't function as well as it might have had Lawry been able to wheel around on the left like he would if he took the ball clean. We also know Switala has a very accurate kick on him. These and many more skill errors occurred time and time again on Saturday (and the week before as well).

2. Still, players are looking for an option and there isn't one provided. This probably is due to players being out of the team, new players in the team and some players playing new roles in the team, but where normally there is a guy in space providing an option the guys are looking for that expecting it and nobody is there. Or alternitavely, the option is provided and not noticed. At our best you could almost blindfold the guys, and they would hit the option because they just know someone will be there, and the guys know who has to get there. Because this didn't work we either kicked the ball to the opposition or coughed the ball up under pressure we put ourselves under.

3. Not enough players are carrying the ball though the lines. McCabe, Ware, Gowans, Faulkner and Steinberner do this well so perhaps it's just a matter of regaining those guys, but I would be dissappointed if guys like Williams, Spurr, Cochrane, Slattery and Goodrem couldn't get the job done. Some confidence might be the answer, more talk, or maybe just more willingness to back themselves.

[purch]

1. Some midfielders gambled too much on turnovers, or were simply too lazy to chase...

For a start, Sturt were the far better tackling side on the day in my opinion. Some of the stuff that Sheedy, Whiteman, Thomson, Bentley and others did in this respect was top notch. It was the pressure on the player with the ball that caused turnovers just as much as poor skill errors by Central.

2. Perrie was too easily held by Havelberg...

I think that at House Bros there was always going to be an issue with the amount of space to run into for 3 big forwards. It might be a different story on a bigger ground. And if Perrie doesn't kick the goals then at least he takes a main defender like Hav...and form shows so far that we have plenty of other options to kick a winning score. Chambers, Herring, Gum, Crane, Sharples, Thomson, Bentley...

3. The reliance on AFL listed players...

I think you'll find that Sturt's reserves won by 94 points. Saturday's ressies contained no less than 16 players with league experience, and all of them are itching to play league footy. You will be happy to know that Kurtze was close to BOG in the 2s as well. It might unsettle the side in the short term a little - the loss of players to the AFL - but it gives someone else who is raring to go a chance to prove a point. Cubillo, Hurley, Bratton, Eckerman to name just a few. Maybe we'll find out this week.

4. Fabian Deluca. Yep, he hurt us alright. But considering he looks like he's playing against the mini league then he should...

I'd say he more than he did his job on Saturday. Centrals were slaughtered at the stoppages. I thought his 2nd half was superb. Everything from deft tap work in the direction of Sheedy and Thomson to filling the hole in the backlines and taking important marks. Sure, he dropped a couple but his second efforts were good and he won his position on the day. See also comment re Kurtze above.

5. Sturt should have well and truly wrapped the game up during the third quarter, such was the disparity in play between the 2 sides on Saturday...

Agreed. We missed quite a few easy goals throughout the day.

Of course there is plenty of room for improvement for all clubs at the moment - it is only Round 2.