PHILOSOPHY CRUSADE #1 - ABC 2 (ALL SANFL FANS PLEASE ACT NOW

[Brucetiki]

received this email from the ABC today

Dear Jason

Thank you for your email and I apologise for the delay in replying.

Unfortunately the ABC only has the rights for one screening of the SANFL
matches which is shown live. I have noted your interest in seeing these
matches again and passed this on to ABC Sport and Television programming
for their information.

I am sorry I do not have better news for you on this occasion but thank
you for writing and for your interest in the ABC.

Kind regards,

Anna Lee
ABC Audience and Consumer Affairs

I think the ABC are now merely clutching at straws now. They've tried the 'different to ABC1' excuse and failed. They've tried the 'no national interest' excuse and failed. Now they're claiming to only have the rights to screen once (never stopped them in previous years showing it multiple times, and the fact highlights are shown on VFL/WAFL telecasts each week).

I think this is a sign that the relentless campaign is working and hopefully it's a matter of when, not if the telecasts resume.

The ABC just keep digging a bigger hole with each new excuse

[bayman]

i hope your right bruce, i've yet to receive my reply from months ago

[Psyber]

I think the ABC are now merely clutching at straws now. They've tried the 'different to ABC1' excuse and failed. They've tried the 'no national interest' excuse and failed. Now they're claiming to only have the rights to screen once (never stopped them in previous years showing it multiple times, and the fact highlights are shown on VFL/WAFL telecasts each week).

I think this is a sign that the relentless campaign is working and hopefully it's a matter of when, not if the telecasts resume.

The ABC just keep digging a bigger hole with each new excuse

Especially when they get the language wrong too - it is "different from ABC1" in English!

[bayman]

philH, can i suggest you (lifefm) & daryl from 5rph & get zac on 5aa's sunday show (would kg do it during the week ? if they get him asking questions on a show that rates highly which is more fuel to the fire) to all make time to interview someone of authority in the abc 'in sydney' & if 3 radio stations are now asking questions that will be a lot more powerful than us mere mortals sending emails after emails



ps, have the questions ready for them don't go 'off the cuff' & throw in some 'loaded questions' as well


what do you guys think ?

i just thought i'd bring this back up to see if phil & others have thought about interviewing someone from the abc (1 or 2) live on air & see if they can answer without having time to think of a 'decent' or 'standard' answer & ask some 'left field' questions & see what answers you get from them

phil i think as i said if life, rph & aa all rang for an interview that would be a lot more 'pressure' than us mere mortals sending emails, letters etc
i don't think 891 would ring for an interview though

[PhilH]

Interesting point Bayman.

Ben Hook aside the local SANFL media has taken minimal if any interest. (Given almost all read this site on a daily basis it probably isn't for a lack of awareness).

It's deemed to be not a good career move to critisise other media outlets, indeed I did get some feedback re this crusade to consider any long term implications before pushing too hard with it. Frankly if you can't publically opposse the idea that a test pattern in better than the SANFL then what is the point.

What it would probably take is supporters taking it up with the media outlets to get their opinion on the move and demmand they get some answers. Ie fiveaa and rph do talkback, why not be a caller? 891 Adelaide has a "soapbox" monday to friday from 11am, why not ring then. There is always letters to the editor at the Advertiser and Messenger.

LifeFM currently does not have a football segment outside of game day (but stay tuned for something news hopefully in the next week or so.)

[Hondo]

If I look at it from the ABC's POV they would say they provide coverage in the home state and that's enough, what's the big deal (repeat - they would say ..). Esp if most of the complaints are coming from people in SA who can watch or tape the Sat afternoon coverage anyway.

Altho it's really important to us, how many people are really watching SANFL from other states? 10,000? 20,000? Is that enough? How many people here watched the WAFL? How many complaints are coming from people outside SA? Honestly .....

I have had battles before with TV stations about shows being cancelled, such as the NFL on Channel 9, and it was the same story. They have crunched their ratings nos, made a D then hope in time everyone gets used to it and gives up.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, I hope it comes back and we should keep fighting. If I'm wrong and there's 50,000 letters from non-SA people sitting on someone's desk at the ABC and it comes back I'll happily swallow my words.

[spell_check]

If I look at it from the ABC's POV they would say they provide coverage in the home state and that's enough, what's the big deal (repeat - they would say ..). Esp if most of the complaints are coming from people in SA who can watch or tape the Sat afternoon coverage anyway.

If that's really their point of view, I don't understand why we are given the run-around and not told this straight out.

[SimonH]

The latest news is: broadcast rights are nothing to do with it, and it appears that the email from Anna Lee claiming that they were, is flat-out wrong. See below.

... How many complaints are coming from people outside SA? Honestly .....

I have had battles before with TV stations about shows being cancelled, such as the NFL on Channel 9, and it was the same story. They have crunched their ratings nos, made a D then hope in time everyone gets used to it and gives up.
...

When it comes to 'why won't they bring back Battlestar Galactica?' in the 1970s, fair enough. However, it's different in the modern age in circumstances where:
a) they already own and have paid for the programming (there was a cost to the ABC buying the re-broadcast rights to the NFL; so simply dumping it produced a saving), and
b) there are a number of different platforms on which they can make low-rating but high-interest programming available nationally to those who wish to see it.

Against that background, I quote my email to ABC from Friday and its reply to me received today:

Dear Ms Lee,

Our correspondence back in February is below. While it's been a long
time since I wrote, I am continuing to follow this issue with interest
(and will continue to do so until it's resolved), through a number of
others who are writing to the ABC. For example, some letters and
responses are compiled on the following internet forum thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13745&start=80&st=0&sk=
t&sd=a

A few further thoughts of mine:

1. Unfortunately, the 11:30pm to 2am timeslot on Tuesday night/
Wednesday morning continues to be more or less non-existent on ABC2.
Therefore, the rationale for the decision could be neatly summed up as:
'Our corporate image-making dictates that our viewers would rather watch
test pattern than the SANFL'. That sort of thinking smacks of a private
corporation overrun by its marketing division, rather than a broadcaster
famous for providing quality programming to the people of Australia,
that reflects our national life and culture. Local commercial radio
station 5AA, for example, has no particular brief to provide the public
service of making its SANFL coverage available nationwide-- and yet it
does so through podcasts. One would hope that an organisation
established to provide services, not make profits, could do at least as
well.

2. It appears to be clear that even when ABC2 moves to a 24 hour format,
no state league football is intended to be in its schedule. Not even at
3am. To say that 'ABC2 is taking a national focus, and so nothing
state-based can be shown at any time or the brand will be damaged' is
clearly false reasoning (leaving aside the questionable distinction
between 'national' and 'state' programming). The idea that I would be
less inclined to watch Underbelly on Channel 9 because they have the
Home Shopping show at 2am, and I think 'I don't want to watch any
programming on a cheap & nasty home shopping network', is patently
absurd. Yet this is the attitude that ABC2 seemingly credits its target
market with.

3. I always thought that SANFL coverage was produced by ABC Sport, in
house. It certainly was when I was growing up. Presuming that's now
changed and it's contracted to a private organisation who holds the
copyright and contracts re-broadcast rights to the ABC (as a response of
yours apparently sent today to another complainant implied): none of the
earlier responses, nor the ABC 'commonly made complaints' website
response to the issue, refer to the withdrawal of state league football
from ABC2 as being because of the rights-holder re-making the contract
over summer to remove any power of the ABC to re-broadcast in any
format. In fact, those communications make it completely clear that
there are different reasons for dumping state league broadcast.
Therefore, if this issue is put up as a road-block to resolving the
problem (rather than just a further fig-leaf reason to do nothing), I
would be interested to hear whether it is truly the rights-holders'
intransigence that is preventing these games from simply, cheaply and
easily being put up as vodcasts-- or whether in truth, the ABC couldn't
be bothered doing so anyway and as a result hasn't even asked the
rights-holder.

4. The word 'replay' seems to be used a lot when talking about the ABC
ditching state league football from a national stage. The word is
inaccurate so far as the ABC2 national broadcast is concerned. For all
states other than SA, the Tuesday night broadcast was a first and only
broadcast, not a replay.

The fundamental point is that the public money has already been spent .
This is not analogous to someone writing in to say, 'commission another
series of Patrol Boat' or 'we want more of the Glass House'. The program
has been made. Public funds have been spent on making it. It is already
at a level of professionalism where it can be broadcast on ABC
television. This is a simple issue of making existing ABC TV programming
available to a nationwide audience, where there is clearly a demand for
it (or you wouldn't be fielding all of these complaints). With a modicum
of organisation, and an additional cost that will be somewhere between
nil and trivial (certainly less than the cost of responding to every
complaint on the topic), the programming can easily be made available to
those who wish to view it.

Thank you for your time,

Simon H

Dear Mr H

Thank you for your email regarding the ABC2 football coverage, which has
been forwarded to me for response. I have raised it in our system as a
separate complaint to your initial email.

I'm sorry to hear you are unhappy that ABC2 will not screen the 2008
state- and territory-based football competitions, and are additionally
dissatisfied with the ABC's response to your original email. I am aware
that currently ABC2 closes most nights at around the time that the
football replays were broadcast. I appreciate that this must add to your
frustration. ABC2 hopes to extend its broadcast hours over the course of
the year. ABC2's decision was based on a variety of reasons, including
the belief that there is not a broad nationwide interest in these
competitions. Additionally, ABC Television is attempting to
differentiate ABC1 and ABC2 by broadcasting ABC2-specific programs,
rather than just repeats of ABC1 material. In response to your third
point below, my correspondence with ABC Sports and ABC2 on the matter
has not indicated that the decision is related to rights.

I appreciate the time you have taken to clearly express your thoughts on
this subject. With respect to the discussion about "replays", I agree
that this is somewhat muddied by the fact that the games are not
broadcast nationwide on ABC1. Please be assured that the feedback of
yourself and other correspondents has been passed on to relevant ABC
staff, right up to the highest levels of ABC management. There have been
discussions as to how, in the future, we might continue to provide
coverage of these competitions. However, as yet no plans have been made.

Thanks again for writing to the ABC.

Yours sincerely

Dave Graves
ABC Audience and Consumer Affairs

We'll eventually win this thing, because the contrary position just makes no sense. The ABC has nothing to gain by depriving us of the broadcasts. It doesn't save them money, it doesn't improve their ratings (unless they can produce figures that the test pattern rates higher than SANFL!), all it does is appease some 'corporate branding' advertising w***ers who should never be allowed anywhere near a public broadcaster.

[am Bays]

Finally got a reply

Dear Mr 1980 TM :wink:

Thank you for your email below. I have raised it in our system as a
separate complaint to your initial email.

I'm sorry to hear that you are unhappy about the cessation of the ABC2
football replays, and are additionally dissatisfied with the ABC's
response to your original email. As you have observed, the ABC will
generally point correspondents to an official response on topics that
have generated significant inquiries or complaints. We believe this to
be a transparent and consistent way to deal with such correspondence.

I am aware that currently ABC2 closes most nights at around the time
that the football replays were broadcast. I appreciate that this must
add to your frustration. ABC2 hopes to extend its broadcast hours over
the course of the year. ABC Television is attempting to differentiate
ABC1 and ABC2 by broadcasting ABC2-specific programs, rather than just
repeats of ABC1 material. Additionally it was felt that there is not a
broad nationwide interest in these competitions. I realise that fans who
wish to follow the competitions outside of the competition's state are
indeed widespread, as you say, but that does not necessarily amount to a
large total when compared to the whole viewing population of the
country.

It is true, as you say, that there has been a strong response from fans,
especially those who, like yourself, saw the broadcasts as a way to keep
in touch with their relatives and place of origin. I can assure you that
the feedback of yourself and other correspondents has been passed on to
relevant ABC staff, right up to the highest levels of ABC management.
There have been discussions as to how, in the future, we might continue
to provide coverage of these competitions. However, as yet no plans have
been made.

Thanks again taking the time to write to the ABC.

Yours sincerely

Dave Graves
ABC Audience and Consumer Affairs

Hmm the key word felt....so this decision has been based on a feeling??? Were they hooked on it? Makes me even more angry, I could understand if it was based on some objective stats but a feeling????

[zipzap]

Keep going folks, I'm confident this will turn around

"Yours sincerely
Dave Graves
ABC Audience and Consumer Affairs"

you'd think Grave Danger would be on our side!

[Rhino]

I am a friend of Hon Terry Stephens MLC who is Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Liberal Leader and Opposition Spokesperson for Sport, Recreation and Racing here in South Australia. After telling him about this snub he has forwarded an official letter off today to Senator Conroy supporting this issue. Good to see some bi-partisan political support on this issue. I have also arranged for Senator Cory Bernardi to be made aware of this and asked for him to also petition Senator Conroy.

Letter reprinted below.


Senator The Hon Stephen Conroy
Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy
Suite 1B, 494 High Street
EPPING, VIC 3076


Dear Senator Conroy


I am writing on behalf of South Australian viewers who will be affected by the decision of ABC2 to cease broadcasting State level Australian Rules Football matches.

As you would be aware, until recently ABC2 provided a resource for viewers to watch their SANFL, WAFL or VFL team play on a delayed telecast.

I was pleased to see the Member for Hindmarsh, Mr Steve Georganas MP take up this issue with you on behalf of his constituents.

Like Mr Georganas, I do not support the decision by ABC to cut this programming.

I would appreciate you looking into this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Hon Terry Stephens MLC


Cc: Mr Steve Georganas MP

[Dutchy]

Rhino - are you aware of anyone getting the SANFL to make a push to the ABC also? Surely the national promotion of their product would only be good for them?

[pipers]

I am a friend of Hon Terry Stephens MLC who is Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Liberal Leader and Opposition Spokesperson for Sport, Recreation and Racing here in South Australia. After telling him about this snub he has forwarded an official letter off today to Senator Conroy supporting this issue.[/b]

Interesting that he sent it to Conroy. A CC to Kate Ellis (Minister for Sport) would perhaps also have been useful.

I'd do it myself, but as she is my local member she's already got a bunch of correspondence from me...

[Rushby Hinds]

Stalker.

[am Bays]

If I look at it from the ABC's POV they would say they provide coverage in the home state and that's enough, what's the big deal (repeat - they would say ..). Esp if most of the complaints are coming from people in SA who can watch or tape the Sat afternoon coverage anyway.

Altho it's really important to us, how many people are really watching SANFL from other states? 10,000? 20,000? Is that enough? How many people here watched the WAFL? How many complaints are coming from people outside SA? Honestly .....

I have had battles before with TV stations about shows being cancelled, such as the NFL on Channel 9, and it was the same story. They have crunched their ratings nos, made a D then hope in time everyone gets used to it and gives up.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, I hope it comes back and we should keep fighting. If I'm wrong and there's 50,000 letters from non-SA people sitting on someone's desk at the ABC and it comes back I'll happily swallow my words.

Hondo I'd buy that arguement if they were a commercial entity whose purpose is to run at a profit. However the ABC isn't a commercial entity it is our ABC and ratings and commercial advertising rates aren't their primary reason for being. Their charter says that they should be broadcasting shows that are of national and cultural significance - not shows that rate well.

I'm not to sure what is more nationally and culturally significant than our national indigenous game. Also the state leagues have huge cultural significance to who we are or were as Australians - Saturday Afternoon fever (if you've read that book on the cultural and histrical significance of sport) and all that.

I'm not expecting teh ABC to be showing the state league replays in prime time (I would like it) but I do think they should be showning them in lieu of British and American black and white movies from 50 years ago on ABC1 and or the tst pattern of ABC2.

[Rhino]

Rhino - are you aware of anyone getting the SANFL to make a push to the ABC also? Surely the national promotion of their product would only be good for them?

Not that I'm aware of Dutchy.

However, perhaps CD and I could get together for a chat as Board members of our clubs with a view to pursuing this at SANFL Management level?

[Rhino]

I am a friend of Hon Terry Stephens MLC who is Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Liberal Leader and Opposition Spokesperson for Sport, Recreation and Racing here in South Australia. After telling him about this snub he has forwarded an official letter off today to Senator Conroy supporting this issue.[/b]

Interesting that he sent it to Conroy. A CC to Kate Ellis (Minister for Sport) would perhaps also have been useful.

I'd do it myself, but as she is my local member she's already got a bunch of correspondence from me...

Senator Conroy is Minister for Communications and is the Minister that ABC Management report to.

[Hondo]

Tassie, at the end of the day there has to be some link back to the number of people who are actually affected. Just because they are a Govt funded TV station doesn't mean they have to cater for every small, regional pocket of interest, because that group think they "should". There'd be hundreds of organisations across the country who could mount a "national interest" argument.

Reading ABC's replies it's clear to me that they know there's a very low interest outside SA and I worry that we are missing this key point. If I did a poll on SAFooty, how many would say they regularly watched the WAFL each week last year? I have not read one post on here where someone says they miss watching the WAFL of VFL. If we aren't watching, why are the people in other states watching SANFL? Even in our hey-day of the 80s I couldn't watch SANFL if I was interstate on holiday.

IMO, we should push the SANFL to expand the highlights of the ABC's match of the week, on the SANFL web-site. Currently there's about 3 minutes per game. That way it's available across the world at any time. That seems a more productive path and it means we can stop relying on ABC2 and stop with the

[heater31]

Reading ABC's replies it's clear to me that they know there's a very low interest outside SA and I worry that we are missing this key point. If I did a poll on SAFooty, how many would say they regularly watched the WAFL each week last year? I have not read one post on here where someone says they miss watching the WAFL of VFL. If we aren't watching, why are the people in other states watching SANFL? Even in our hey-day of the 80s I couldn't watch SANFL if I was interstate on holiday.

I would have a passing interest in the other 2 if it was still on and by now purchased a set top box. Since they have canned it there is no reason for me to purchase one of these set top boxes to get ABC2 and will now wait until Krudd pays me to buy one then switch it on 1 day before the old signal goes off air.

[Pseudo]

A CC to Kate Ellis (Minister for Sport) would perhaps also have been useful.

I'd do it myself, but as she is my local member she's already got a bunch of correspondence from me...

She's not my member. However I wouldn't mind introducing her to my member ...