Great to have the links to the old songs...

... no copy of the Sturt version of the Carlton song, we sang that for years!

I think I actually prefer that to the Grand Old Flag version.

I used to be a big fan, but not anymore.

Told me to my face he didn't want members asking a lot of questions at AGMs, I think it was the 2009 one...

Plus he has to take some responsibility for the massive increase in debt under his reign...

Tired. His first tour was his best...

bennymacca wrote:the SANFL and football in general would be much better if every idiot on this forum stopped supporting football

It's that type of thinking that gets you on club boards so it seems... you'd fit right in.

Norwood proved you can cheat and still win as long as you're willing to sell out the league for your own personal gain.

This has been the problem with the clubs for a while, self interest over what is best for the league.

This is why the Crows and Power will always get what they want in the new practice league.

Maybe the Crows will beat Norwood in the GF after parking the karma bus.

I think its insulting clubs ask for help now after not consulting their members about the reserves.

Just amazing...

They love you when you have cash, but have no time for you otherwise.

They have forgotten their roots, just like Crows fans.

I can sympathise with TSG. I stopped my membership with Sturt last year after 20 years as a member simply because I lost faith in the people running the club. The decision to vote yes without even considering the views of members just proved to me my lack of faith was warranted.

As such I won't be returning as a member until something changes at the club.

There's hardly anyone on here who believes the Magpies still exist, so I wouldn't waste my time on the odd retard who thinks otherwise. The Magpies were a great club and had a record that was the envy of everyone, but their time has come to an end.

I'll remember them fondly as a great foe and a the team that provided me with my most favourite SANFL memories. I'll certainly miss the Sturt v Port matches, but alas, the AFL reserves decision has killed off the competition as a whole iMHO, not just the Magpies.

I think the Power is making a mistake by badging its reserves team as the Magpies. The whole problem with identity (in my opinion) stemmed from moving away from the Magpies creed and starting up the new Power ethos and hoping everyone would forget they hated the Magpies and suddenly become Power fans overnight. As we know, this didn't happen, they simply alienated some of the Magpie community and lost out

Then the club tried to bring the Magpie creed back in, all that "One Club" crap, while at the same slowly strangling the Magpie club to death, taking them out of the SANFL board, making them a subsidiary, treating them like a retarded cousin. Now they have well and truly knifed the Magpie club, but are trying to say all is alive and well at Magpie land in some sort of "Weekend at Bernie's" nightmare charade.

The PAFC should just put the Magpie name to rest, honour its history and be the Power in both the AFL and SANFL. It keeps marketing and colours consistent and ends the which club is which and who's on first and all that crap we've been hearing for years.

I hate seeing the Magpies dead, but they are, so stop stuffing about and just promote the Power like you want to...

Its 45.2 degrees out in the full sun at the moment nothing better than debating the AFL RESERVES debacle until the Power runs out lol.

Hey and no smart comments back that I am suffering from heat stroke LOL.
46.6 in the shade here in Alma...

... and I'm even putting water out for the poor suffering magpies here... poor buggers!

The fans who think this move to have AFL reserves teams in the SANFL is a good one...

... I would guess, are the same people who walked away from the SANFL in 1991.

The Sturt FC recently sent out this email to members and non-members...

Dear member,
Players, coaches, staff and volunteers have prepared a list of maintenance items requiring urgent attention in the Change Rooms, Weight Room and Club Rooms. We ask if you could kindly review the attached list and if you are available to assist either physically or financially could you please contact the club on 8271 4611 to register your involvement.
Please see the list attached below of the items requiring attention, these items will need to be completed prior to the start of the Season.
There is much to do. Your club needs you as "The Team Behind the Team", any assistance you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

While I support the clubs endeavours to seek volunteer help from members and non-members alike, I can't help but feel its a bit rich of the club to ask supporters, as the "team behind the team" to help out, when the club so nonchalantly ignored them when it came to the Reserves question.

So really, they're asking help from the "team whose opinion we don't care about until we need money or free labour". I know its a bit of a whine, but surely someone at the club can see how this looks to some members and non-members.

Management 101 people... don't burn the people you need.

I think Kickinit is fully aware its a reserves team, I think he's just fishing to annoy people...

Like I said earlier in the thread, the majority of us and I think the football public will see the Magpies as dead and this new team as nothing more than a Power Reserves team in someone elses guernsey, but for a select few PAFC supporters, they'll still think/hope/believe/deceive themselves, that its still the same old Magpies that dominated the SANFL.

Just leave them to it I reckon... if he's happy, he's happy, if it all works out for the league, kudos to those in charge... if not, well it was good while it lasted I suppose and at least we have the memories of a league with integrity and colour and passion.

There's plenty of other leagues and sports we can all support if this one doesn't work out like we hope.

Nigel Smart. Arrogant tosser.

Adelaide Crows. Arrogant club.

An insult to everyone, I suggest people complain to the club.

Epic Fail...

Smart got what was coming to him... so arrogant on radio... now he looks like a complete tool.

Satisfying.

My first post for the season...

Congratulations to Norwood... having watched the match on TV, I feel that they were the only team in the league with the poise and the coolness under pressure to be able to withstand an AFL reserves team in the Grand Final.

I've been sitting back watching the season unfold, watching the banter here on SA Footy rather than taking part in it, reading each sides views on how the league is this year, was it a disaster, was it the adrenilin shot the league needed, where to from here...

My opinion...

The Grand Final was the result the SANFL needed. They will be able to point to it and say with confidence that if you have a well drilled, well trained SANFL team, then you are quite capable of putting an AFL reserves team to the sword. It pains me to say that because had it been a Power white wash, then the SANFL would probably rethink what they've done, but with Norwood getting up in a thriller, I think we all have to sit back and say, well you know what, Central of old probably would have beaten them too... and probably comfortably.

So what does that mean?

To me it means if your a top three side, a really good SANFL side without too many failings, then you're a good chance to beat an AFL reserves team, as Port fielded a full strength side today and couldn't beat Norwood.

Chances are that's about as good as a Power or Crows team will get, which means we have to accept the fact that if South Adelaide and Sturt and Torrens can improve a few goals next year, then they too should beat the Power and Crows.

Crowds...

Heaps of doomsdayers (which I'm one) said crowds would be crap. I specifically said watch the 2nd and 3rd years, not this year. But that said, crowds this year weren't really all that much worse than the last ten years from what I can tell. The AFL sides haven't helped one bit, bottom line is enough SANFL fans turned up to keep the average crowd numbers around the mark. The GF crowd of 38K or 32K if you're a conspiracy theorist is still a good crowd for a SANFL GF. Expecting more than that is heart over head...

As it was, they were a mere 5% away from 40,000, which would have been amazing... 11K at the WAFL one, that tells you something. I applaud those who tried to say crowds were a disaster, but I just don't buy it, even though I'd like to.

Membership. Club memberships are down. The clubs made a stupid decision against the will of their fanbase. Will they pay for it? I think they will, a fresh round of massive losses this year will show nothing has improved in that area.

To think some had the gaul to write to members and non-members asking for money after summarily dismissing their views a few months before, just incredible arrogance on their part and shows how out of touch they are and how condescending they can be.

AFL teams brought almost nobody extra to games...

AFL teams brought nearly no extra money to the clubs...

AFL teams brought no extra excitement to the games...

TV coverage was marginally better, if at all, Grand Final publicity was good on TV and radio, but that's the only area of improvement...

Written coverage was no better... in fact at times it was insulting...

AFL teams made no effort to promote the local league and in fact officials made statements that lowered its prestige... good onya...

One plus was the AFL media continually said "how great the SANFL is this year", too bad they didn't show that support in other years, its amazing how positive reinforcement can improve performance and result in more positive reinforcement. The AFL media left the league to die and now with some AFL teams involved, all of a sudden its a great league.

The nerve.

On here... this forum was rubbish the whole year, everyone was whinging and arguing all year and not about the games... I understand why and don't blame anyone, but it says something, it shows how ticked off people were and how uninterested a lot of us were with the games. I went to about 5-6 games this year, down from about 16-18. There were games where almost no one commented about the games. Live scores was p*** poor, again, no ones fault, just a result of people's lack of interest in the season.

The SANFL is hoping all of us diehards will be replaced by a new brand of AFLites who will watch the local game for a bit of a laugh... like I take an interest in Halifax Town in England, even though I follow Manchester United.

Will that work... I don't think so...

Overall, I'd say the season was a success for the SANFL, but not a success for me. I was more interested in the AFL and that says something considering I watch about 2-3 games a year during the minor round and that's it.

So are the AFL supporters right? For the moment, yes, but its 1/4 time, lets wait to half time which is GF day next year and check the scoreboard.

Are the anti-AFLers right? Not yet, but I think they will be.

My final thought for the season... commiserations to South Adelaide, deserved their day in the sun today.

Response from Norwood Football Club...

---------

Thanks for the email, I know that the SANFL supporters and Members have grave concerns over the current standings of the SANFL weekly attendances. I apologies for the delay in response but 4 Friday games in a row doesn’t leave a lot of spare time as you can appreciate.

I won’t comment for other clubs as I don’t know what they have put in place as far as lifting their attendances but I’m happy to comment from a NFC perspective.

The Club to date is actually quite pleased with both our home and away crowds. I have included some numbers below to show the comparison on the round 6 numbers. As you can see the only really worrying game is the ANZAC day match against Port, but I think that the weather truly did keep all but the most passionate supporter away.
Of the games that are comparable Round 1 was a positive increase on the previous year, with Sturt driving their supporters to attend the match.
Round 2 saw a great increase for Centrals with just under 700 extra attending the game
Round 3, 5 & 7 also were good increases for both Home & Away matches.

The Crows game was slightly disappointing but in saying that last year the NFC with the help of the AFC did a fairly Large Promo with players from both clubs leading into the match including a lot of giveaway tickets that we didn’t do this year as we have targeted another game for a similar Promo.

NFC Membership has seen a 22.5% increase this season as we have shifted a lot of the clubs marketing and promo focus into Membership having sustained a consistent number for the past 3 seasons. Last year 3150, this season 3860 so far.

From a NFC point of view the year to date for attendances and membership is very positive and whilst I understand we are the reigning Premiers x 3 I think to continue growth is a good thing.

From a League point of view, the SANFL has been very proactive with the clubs by pushing us in the right direction as well as delivering club focused membership advertising on Buses, Trams (wifi & Physical), and increase online presence and a wider spread media scope via radio on more than the traditional channels inc Fresh 92.7.
A lot of these mediums may not be seen by the “traditional” supporter but the clubs and league need to try and capture new supporters to compliment the traditional supporter.

The NFC is comfortable with the $14 admin fee as it stands, as a family of 4 can attend and SANFL match for $28 or less if concession apply,
plus food and non-alcoholic beverages are still able to be brought into SANFL grounds.
Many clubs struggle to break even at $14 so dropping the price to try and pick up an unknown attendance increase could be very dangerous.

We understand the all SANFL supporters both old and new are worried about the future of the league, but from a NFC point of view we believe that we still offer a great day out, that we are constantly trying to improve.

Hopefully I have answered a few of your questions where I have the relevant info?

Norwood 2015
Rd Day Opponent Ground Attendance Comparison to the same oppo from 2014.
1 Thursday (n) Sturt Coopers Stadium 6,927 2,071
2 Saturday Central District Playford Alive Oval 2,655 696
3 Sunday Eagles Maughan Thiem 2,855 567
4 Friday (n) Port Adelaide Adelaide Oval 5,526 - 4,488 Compared ANZAC Day not North
5 Friday (n) Glenelg Coopers Stadium 3,234 730
6 Friday (n) Adelaide Coopers Stadium 3,025 - 857
Total after rnd 6 24,222
7 Friday (n) South Adelaide Coopers Stadium 3,017 526

The table probably doesn't come out well when pasted, but as stated by NFC, only the ANZAC Day game was poor and weather was atrocious that day, so I certainly sympathise with their thinking.

I'm very pleased they sent me a response, still nothing from the other 7 clubs or the league. Hopefully I'll be surprised and get some more responses, maybe it is going to take some of them longer than I thought to write back.

I cross my fingers that that is the case...

In the end I don't think fans are looking to catch them out, a lot of us genuinely just want to be considered and spoken to and enlightened to the thinking of the club rather than just ignored except on occasions when they're getting money from us.

So my thanks to Norwood... showing the way to respond to the public I reckon.

I'm back for my one (well maybe more) post for the year following the AFL debacle...

I like the idea of a nicely articulated email that supporters of the SANFL could send to the clubs and the league. You might remember that I did email all 8 clubs and the league earlier in the year concerning crowds and the possible detrimental affect the AFL reserves teams were having. I received a reply from Norwood, but the other 7 clubs plus the SANFL ignored the email. I have to say, I was pretty disappointed with that considering the email wasn't a tirade against the Crows and Power, but rather a calm email asking for insight into what the club / league thought of the situation. My email and the response from Norwood can be found in the attendances thread (from memory).

The only issue with sending an email to the 8 clubs and SANFL again (and I'd suggest a generic email of protest, not sullied by emotion, but certainly clearly expressing one's sadness at the state of the league) is that there needs to be LOTS of people who send them.

For example, Norwood receiving 3-4 emails isn't going to have much impact. Norwood receiving 50-60 emails may well cause a reaction. I'm fearful that the only people who would send such an email are those on here, so in the end, you might get 10 or so people on board. I can't see the clubs giving a toss about so few complaints. The email would need to be posted to the no AFL sites on Facebook, if they still exist, I'm not on Facebook so wouldn't know, but if they are, then maybe that would help gather sufficient numbers. Maybe going on there and polling the group to see if there is support would give one an idea whether there could be an impact.

Joining with WAFL fans and emailing the same email to those clubs may also be a good idea.

CCing in relevant media personalities would also be a good idea.

In addition, people have to put their money where their mouth is. If you're going to continue being a member, then really your complaints and threats mean nothing, as you're being screwed but choosing to give them money anyway. If you're truly unhappy with the state of the league, then you need to walk away and not give the club the money. By continuing to support your club financially, its akin to being unhappy with your kid being an ice addict, while at the same time being happy to drive your son to his dealer to pick up a nickel bag. I'm not saying you don't care enough if you do continue to pay up, or that I care more, not at all, I'm just saying that from my perspective your complaint has less impact.

It's hard to do. I stopped my membership with Sturt after 2012 and 20 years as a member. I went back this year after protests and abuse from my footy friends, but I have to say, I can't see myself joining up again in 2016.

I used to go to 15-16 games a year plus finals. Now I go to 2-3 at most.

Ideally the email would state that the author will not be re-newing his/her membership the following year and will withdraw any other secondary financial support for the club. If there is no change in 2016, then a follow up email should be sent in unison with other fans, confirming no membership will be bought, so that the message is rammed home. For those that say this is cutting off your nose to spite your face, I see that argument, one is punishing one's own club and making their survival more difficult, how is that being a good supporter? Agree, I see that. For me though, support is a two way street, if the club has no concern for me as a supporter, I can hardly be expected to show them undying love.

In the end I'm supporting a product and if the clubs choose to change that product, they can't rely on me to continue to want to buy it.

Looking at this forum over 2015, its pretty obvious the interest in the league by members on here is almost nil. So many games go un-previewed, un-reviewed, not followed live, its amazing how much people have moved on.

So nice to see Adelaide and its retarded fans bleating over the integrity of the competition being challenged.

Thanks North Melbourne... hope that move knocks Adelaide out of the finals.

I'm with you LPH...

This is my last season of SANFL I don't feel Sturt cares about the views of its supporters either.

I'll lose some good friends as a result, they can put up with more than me.

I hope they still enjoy it, but to be honest, my impression is not even they are that into it anymore.

I have an alternate code too, A-League, I actually look forward to that every season and have been for a while. The season starts in 4 weeks and I can't wait to watch the matches...

I'll miss the SANFL. No doubt. It was a big part of my life too. Going to see Sturt one week, the Peckers the next with a mate, great times, lived for those big clashes with Port Adelaide, but that's all history now. At 43 years of age, I'll be bringing my kids up as Adelaide United fans.

Hard to follow a league that doesn't even believe in itself, let alone believe in its fans.

Actually, shouldn't we count Torrens flags in the WWT list... give them 7?

The problem I see with the Glenelg situation is this...

Chiggy - We're voting to bring the AFL teams into the league.

Member - Do you mind explaining how that will benefit our club and promote membership long term?

Chiggy - F*** you.

1 week later...

Chiggy - Can we have some money?

Member - F*** you.

That said, there'll be a lot of members who will transform into sheep and baaaa their way to the charity box and handover their hard earned. At the same time, many diehards won't do squat. If Glenelg folded, would that push the other clubs to act?

Maybe.

Would I sacrifice Glenelg to test that theory?

Unsure. Maybe.

The fact is the league is in a pretty ordinary state and generally run by pretty ordinary people who eye an AFL role more so than covet their SANFL one, a sure sign that the league will continue to whore itself out to benefit the few over the many.

As I think about it a bit more, Glenelg folding could be good. It'd bring it to a head, we would either see a swift move by the 7 remaining clubs to reinstate their authority over the league or we'd see the league collapse in quick time.

Both results would give us victory / closure.

I used to be one of those who religiously posted on here.

Now I don't.

I admire people's spirit but in the end we only represent 10-20% of the SANFL supporter base. Frankly the other 80% just don't care what the clubs do and this is evident by the sheep like behaviour at AGMs.

The acceptance of any decision. No matter how dumb.

Plus we don't run for the board ourselves so are we really doing anything? My club ignores me and it can because it has 3,000 other members who blissfully go along with the flow, so who cares what I think?

It'll be an amateur league eventually and all the tools who made the wrong decisions will shrug their shoulders, make excuses and move on to something else they think they're good at. No one will care.

I love how SANFL and club officials come to the same conclusion we did but months or years later. If they spent five minutes consulting fans they would have known the zillion byes was a dumb ass idea.

Just annoys the hell out of me how they do this time and time again.

MW wrote:Yeah blame your clubs for allowing it. Classy using cancer as a slur

We do blame our clubs.

Cancer is being used as a descriptor, which if you understand cancer is pretty apt.

Just ban both reserves teams from finals and the Magarey.
Simple.

I sympathise but how does that work, you end up with a three team finals series or a 7th placed team in the five.

Both crap options.

The teams are in the league fully or aren't, it's binary to me.
Everyone can play for the minor premiership and then the reserves teams bow out. During the season you have two ladders one that doesn't include the reserves. Top 4 or five of that ladder play finals. Port and Adelaide can go please themselves.

As I said, it means the 7th best team makes the finals in some years. It's just another way of clearly showing we have no idea what we are doing. If the teams are in, they play finals and win medals. Otherwise if they don't, then the SANFL teams will just rest and rotate players through the AFL games to be better placed themselves for SANFL finals. That would also hurt the competition.

Fact is you don't stick Manchester United in the A-League because you can. There has to be compelling reasons why it's good for all. The league presidents, I say, don't want the Crows going to the grannie and that in itself would prove they know this isn't a good arrangement. We are all hoping South win just to avoid what would be the inevitable outrage.

I wonder it Gotch still likes the idea of the reserves sides, bringing the best out of his players or whatever his justification was.
Bar Roy, they all say it's good.

But then if you want an AFL job later you probably have to, hence why the clubs voted them in, just paving a career path at the cost of the competition.

That's why Parko is cleared to take the money shot with gusto...

This is the thing crows fans don't get no matter how many times they're told.

It's not about standard or money, it's about a league with integrity.

I'm happy for the league to become like A1, if that's the standard and popularity then so be it, but at least compete against like clubs and not be a development league for others to play with like a toy.

I see the incentive for people to play in the SANFL diminishing because the league is not a real league anymore.

I know there are bits of crowd stats in several threads, is it possible to have one post which shows :-

(a) total minor round attendances from 2000 to present
(b) total major round attendances from 2000 to present (broken down by finals week if possible)
(c) average minor round crowds per team from 2000 to present

I think that would clearly allow everyone to reference it / copy it in emails to clubs and the league when asking for explanations. It would also clearly show what trends there are year to year by league, by finals, by club.

Over to those guys who are the stats masters! :-)

Unless they play Sturt...

But how shite is that... GF could be yours for the taking if Crows team is nobbled. Not a good look.

Likewise, if Crows team isn't nobbled and you're wiped by 10 goals. No a good look.

Geez.

Sturt's banner for the 1998 finals series, not sure if it was the GF...

"Sturt no longer the chopping block, now we wield the axe!"

Something like that... have a photo at home I think.

With the muscle man caricature holding an axe.

Paul Osborn's great work that year.

I won't be attending the SANFL from hereon... certainly won't be going to the AFL reserves match.

Besides, it shouldn't be called the SANFL anymore, it is technically AFL-SA now. .. the SANFL should do the right thing and rename itself and make a distinction between SANFL flags and AFL-SA flags, as its a different competition now.
That'd be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The AFL has decided to take a dump on the SANFL, we should be withdrawing our support from that league, or specifically Crows and Power, rather than dreaming up ways to make our comp more unattractive.
I'm not dreaming up ways to make the SANFL more unattractive. The league directors did that. They're putting a dress on my Dad and calling him my Mum, sorry, I can tell the difference! The fact is that two AFL clubs now have development teams in the league with an overriding objective to develop players for another league and market their AFL brand (over and above any SANFL brand) more than anything else and THAT is something the SANFL has never been about.

As I've said before... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... its AFLSA and not the SANFL.