The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[RB]

Life's too short for me to spend time getting cranky over it. I'm married with kids, work full time and have plenty of other commitments, I've got plenty of cranky pills to swallow as it is!!

I'm genuinely happy that you are able to look at these things philosophically, yet that in no way delegitimizes the arguments of those of us who are outraged at the events of the last year. Nor does it mean you can imply that those who scrutinize the new setup more than you are merely 'whingers'.

[bennymacca]

Just on that - I think you can change the title of this thread, it is clearly more than just whinging.

[RB]

I think the title was meant only semi-seriously, but yes, a word such as 'scrutiny' or 'debate' would be more appropriate.

[Booney]

Life's too short for me to spend time getting cranky over it. I'm married with kids, work full time and have plenty of other commitments, I've got plenty of cranky pills to swallow as it is!!

I'm genuinely happy that you are able to look at these things philosophically, yet that in no way delegitimizes the arguments of those of us who are outraged at the events of the last year. Nor does it mean you can imply that those who scrutinize the new setup more than you are merely 'whingers'.

Never said it did.

[LPH]

(Apologies LPH, not having a dig mate. But I would be suprised if the Eagles weren't still in your heart). You might give up on your club, but you don't change aligiances to another club. If you do, then just maybe you weren't in love in the first place.

It's only my opinion but I would not be suprised if most others felt pretty much the same.

You are correct... of course I still watch/listen for & read about their performances.
I played @ WTFC - I will always be aligned with them.
My son is still a Member - he, more than anyone, has a go at me for removing my 'support'/membership.

As I say to him; "It is not that I don't want to be seen 'following' WWTFC.
What I disliked about the process was the vote without giving the Members a say."

Our 2 Clubs, more than anyone else, were affected more by the advent of AFL in SA - we merged.
Yes. Torrens had financial issues for most of the 1980's & yes, Woodville were an under performing Club, on field.

As a young bloke, I would ride my bike from West Lakes to Thebby (& back) for training every Sunday Morning.
The Club I loved, died - becoming another.
That 'other Club' continued to have factions - the 1993 Flag was good but really, it was a 'gift' because of the merger (player base, etc.) - WWTFC also played in all Grade Grand Finals, no doubt as a result of the 'strength' of player-pool.

During this time, the new entity sent letters to supporters - urging Membership Monies & Sponsorship.
This continues today.
People such as myself did 'put our hands in our pockets' - contributing to the financial success of the Club.
We did this gladly.

The 2006 Flag, I believe, ended the 'division' between WFC & WTFC supporters - that Flag was a tremendous feeling, for the whole Club.
I truly felt that the 'stigma' (internally at least) of the merger was now put to bed & the Club could move onward & upward as One.
The Club continued to seek financial support from its members & supporters - & I continued to do so.

2011 Flag was a little different - they came back from losing the Qualifying Final to Norwood, to winning the GF by 3 pts - Great Day for 'us'.

Of course I still have 'love' for that Club - I have 'history' with it.
But for them NOT to so much as ask for input from its members before making a decision as big as the decision for the 2 original Clubs to merge, is IMHO the height of arrogance & disrespect - particularly after seeking our financial support for so many years.
Remember, a lot of WTFC & WFC supporters 'walked away' in 1990 - those of us who stayed, I would contend, deserved better than to be told by Slaven & the Club "We are making the decision without you."

I have stated before; If the Club had put it to the vote (& naturally I would've voted "No") & the result was in favour (even 50.1% Yes), then I would've accepted the decision of the MEMBERS & although not happy, continued to financially support the Club & continue to attend games at Woodville Oval.
But they didn't have that respect - so they don't get my support.

I have chosen to give that financial support to SAFC - I enjoy going to the footy.
The 'passion' is not the same - but my daughter has always supported "Panthers", so that makes it easier.

So, JTC - Yes, you are right (to a degree).
I hope the above explains it somewhat

[RB]

Life's too short for me to spend time getting cranky over it. I'm married with kids, work full time and have plenty of other commitments, I've got plenty of cranky pills to swallow as it is!!

I'm genuinely happy that you are able to look at these things philosophically, yet that in no way delegitimizes the arguments of those of us who are outraged at the events of the last year. Nor does it mean you can imply that those who scrutinize the new setup more than you are merely 'whingers'.

Never said it did.

Well you constantly pull that one out when we talk about the reserves issue, as a kind of 'it doesn't really matter that much, quit complaining' thing.

[bennymacca]

Great post LPH. I can totally understand where you are coming from

[Booney]

Life's too short for me to spend time getting cranky over it. I'm married with kids, work full time and have plenty of other commitments, I've got plenty of cranky pills to swallow as it is!!

I'm genuinely happy that you are able to look at these things philosophically, yet that in no way delegitimizes the arguments of those of us who are outraged at the events of the last year. Nor does it mean you can imply that those who scrutinize the new setup more than you are merely 'whingers'.

Never said it did.

Well you constantly pull that one out when we talk about the reserves issue, as a kind of 'it doesn't really matter that much, quit complaining' thing.

You jokers make me smile, I tell you.

"We've got the right to whinge!" - Yes, you sure do.

"I've not ever said you don't" - Don't give me that!

[Dogwatcher]

Great post LPH. I can totally understand where you are coming from

How?

[bennymacca]

The non consultation of paid up members was poor.

[once_were_warriors]

Good Post LPH ,replace WTFC with WFC and you have basically expressed my thoughts.

Other than I continue my membership allbeit a reduced one, and continue to rock up most weekends , though not against the reserve sides or some away games.

[johntheclaret]

(Apologies LPH, not having a dig mate. But I would be suprised if the Eagles weren't still in your heart). You might give up on your club, but you don't change aligiances to another club. If you do, then just maybe you weren't in love in the first place.

It's only my opinion but I would not be suprised if most others felt pretty much the same.

You are correct... of course I still watch/listen for & read about their performances.
I played @ WTFC - I will always be aligned with them.
My son is still a Member - he, more than anyone, has a go at me for removing my 'support'/membership.

As I say to him; "It is not that I don't want to be seen 'following' WWTFC.
What I disliked about the process was the vote without giving the Members a say."

Our 2 Clubs, more than anyone else, were affected more by the advent of AFL in SA - we merged.
Yes. Torrens had financial issues for most of the 1980's & yes, Woodville were an under performing Club, on field.

As a young bloke, I would ride my bike from West Lakes to Thebby (& back) for training every Sunday Morning.
The Club I loved, died - becoming another.
That 'other Club' continued to have factions - the 1993 Flag was good but really, it was a 'gift' because of the merger (player base, etc.) - WWTFC also played in all Grade Grand Finals, no doubt as a result of the 'strength' of player-pool.

During this time, the new entity sent letters to supporters - urging Membership Monies & Sponsorship.
This continues today.
People such as myself did 'put our hands in our pockets' - contributing to the financial success of the Club.
We did this gladly.

The 2006 Flag, I believe, ended the 'division' between WFC & WTFC supporters - that Flag was a tremendous feeling, for the whole Club.
I truly felt that the 'stigma' (internally at least) of the merger was now put to bed & the Club could move onward & upward as One.
The Club continued to seek financial support from its members & supporters - & I continued to do so.

2011 Flag was a little different - they came back from losing the Qualifying Final to Norwood, to winning the GF by 3 pts - Great Day for 'us'.

Of course I still have 'love' for that Club - I have 'history' with it.
But for them NOT to so much as ask for input from its members before making a decision as big as the decision for the 2 original Clubs to merge, is IMHO the height of arrogance & disrespect - particularly after seeking our financial support for so many years.
Remember, a lot of WTFC & WFC supporters 'walked away' in 1990 - those of us who stayed, I would contend, deserved better than to be told by Slaven & the Club "We are making the decision without you."

I have stated before; If the Club had put it to the vote (& naturally I would've voted "No") & the result was in favour (even 50.1% Yes), then I would've accepted the decision of the MEMBERS & although not happy, continued to financially support the Club & continue to attend games at Woodville Oval.
But they didn't have that respect - so they don't get my support.

I have chosen to give that financial support to SAFC - I enjoy going to the footy.
The 'passion' is not the same - but my daughter has always supported "Panthers", so that makes it easier.

So, JTC - Yes, you are right (to a degree).
I hope the above explains it somewhat

Good post.

I wasn't asking for an explanation. I don't have the right to do that of anyone.

What I personally find confusing is that in one sentence "you still have love for the club, always aligned with them, don't not want to be seen supporting them" etc, yet you change your user name from LEH (loud eagle hooligan) to LPH (I'm assuming the "P" stands for Panther, and your club badge to the Panthers.

That's your right of course by I couldn't do that. Show my support to SAFC or CDFC by buying a membership, possibly but that would be as far as it went.
I know of some pretty diehard Rooster fans that are so disgusted they have given up on their club and walked away. But I couldn't imagine they would change their username and club badge and start watching another SANFL club.

Still, thank f%^k we're all different or there'd be nothing to debate

[johntheclaret]

Great post LPH. I can totally understand where you are coming from

I doubt that very much.
You're like a man saying he knows what it's like the having a baby to a pregnant woman.

[bennymacca]

Lol.

This is more like you.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning% ... ger_effect

[johntheclaret]

Lol.

This is more like you.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning% ... ger_effect

I guess it would depend on whether I'm point one or point two.

But being a Crows supporter all of your life, what bit about LPH' s club being forced into merger with an adversary, partially due to the inception of your mob, or LPH's club being bullied & threatened into accepting the denegration of the league it plays in by your mob, do you fully understand.

[bennymacca]

so are you saying that unless you personally go through something you have no way of being able to empathise with them when they write a considered, well constructed argument?

guess that definitely puts you in the first category of the D-K effect.

[johntheclaret]

so are you saying that unless you personally go through something you have no way of being able to empathise with them when they write a considered, well constructed argument?

guess that definitely puts you in the first category of the D-K effect.

Not at all. I just find it ironic coming from a Crows fan.

I didn't read the post as an argument in the first place.
-

[UK Fan]

This thread should be merged with the Q & A with David Burtenshaw.

The MO is exactly the same. Benny telling everyone why their opinions suck compared to his and then denying it.

[johntheclaret]

I'd like to apologise to Daysofyourlives and Two Sheds

[LPH]

I completely understand why so many are so angered by what has happened, but on the other hand I don't truly believe that enough people made enough noise at the time to truly influence the decision. Some admirable "sit ins" at Woodville Oval with some A3 cardboard or a printed banner are, in essence, small fry compared to the riches the clubs were offered.

You are dead right - no question about that.
I would ask "What else could one do?" - the point of that & other "No AFL in SANFL" gatherings was to bring attention to the issue.
I was under NO ILLUSION that the AFL Teams would get what they wanted - all I sought was a debate within my Club, between its Board & Members.
I also wrote letters & received correspondence (which I was asked to keep confidential & not to post here, on FB or anywhere else) - that I did out of respect for the individual Board Member who sought it.

The 'sit in' as you put it was a silent protest - I was never going to have a 'militant' protest for a number of reasons; 1) Any 'radical' type expression is more likely to be dismissed as 'lunatic, fringe element stuff' & (2) My job doesn't allow me to behave in such a way - I was actually reluctant to be involved in the Media Campaign (Advertiser & TV) because of that 'exposure' but felt the issue was too important not to support Gary & Shane in their attempts to also raise the status of the debate.
Sadly, as was probably always going to happen, it made little difference.
So what.
This is Australia after all & not China or the Middle East, where 'peaceful' protest is allowed & freedom of speech is still OK.
Your mocking of my efforts, I can not do anything about. But I rest comfortably in the fact that I at least raised the profile of the debate in a non-threatening & respectful manner. Was it doomed to fail? More than likely. Would I have liked to have done more to stop it? Sure.
At the end of the day - the AFL won. They were always going to - you are right, money talks. But I would contend that doesn't mean one should shy away from expressing One's opposition, provided it is done non-violently & respectful of others particular wishes.