Are Poker Machines ruining the SANFL?

[Sojourner]

No doubt people are aware of that several SANFL clubs are to record losses, information posted on this site suggests that the Eagles are facing a loss of 350K and West Adelaide a similar amount. No doubt more clubs will soon also face publication of their own results which may not be great either.

When Pokies were released in S.A, various SANFL clubs spent a lot of money to invest in new facilities to cater for them, what I feel is an issue that was not known then is that Poker Machines statistically would not be consistantly popular across Adelaide in general. There is a suggestion that Poker Machines take a reasonable amount of coin in Lower Socio-Economic Areas, yet areas near the city have a lot less turnover which may also have something to do with the sheer concentration of venues. Because then of the footprint of SANFL areas, some SANFL clubs will perpetually be at a significant disadvantage in relation to rasing funds through Poker Machines.

Leasing Venues for SANFL clubs for the use of the Poker Machines has not neccessaraly proven to be the saviour of the said clubs either, Leases are not cheap, inner city rents are massive and if the turnover just is not there, what really is the value of the lease?

Another point noted was that the Eagles Club had also rescinded the TAB access due to lack of use or turnover of it. The racing industry is clearly up the creek with the loss of two tracks and constant fighting and bickering over various racing issues, if the public is losing interest then this also relates to a lessening of a traditional revenue stream for the clubs.

Russell Crowe made much publicity when his NRL began a programme of removal of Poker Machines to enable the club to focus on more traditional methods of fundraising with the idea being to reach out into the community and include people as a part of the club, assuming this worked, this would then lead to an increase in general revenue by the way of new memberships and people participating in the club. Whether this works in the SANFL, who knows!

The issue that wont go away though is the fact that some SANFL clubs will do very well out of Poker Machines and some will at the extreme not make any money out of Poker Machines. The AFL has their Equalisation funds which are often discussed as unfair in those forums, yet I feel that the SANFL has pretty blatently shown that they are not interested in providing any financial assistance or even going as a Garantor for loans granted to an SANFL side as was done with the North Adelaide Footy Club when they came to a crisis point several years ago.

My thoughts is that the SANFL probably will eventually have to step in and do something, yet it wont be until a current SANFL club folds or merges creating an 8 team competition.

If a club makes a loss of 350K, that is one thing, yet if the clubs that are losing money continue to lose money at that rate and string losses like that together its pretty onimous to suggest that closure or merger of the club will be the result. North may have turned things around with their new venues, yet what is the future of the clubs that dont have the capacity to have such an area where they can turn Poker Machines into postive cash flow?

[Dogwatcher]

I can't say that pokie machines are ruining the SANFL.
They are evil no doubt but ruining the SANFL, I'm not so sure.

If clubs didn't have pokies, like every other venue in the state, how would they have raised funds? Due to the AFL expansion clubs have a smaller supporter and volunteer base, meaning the bingo nights (and let's not forget that was also a form of gambling) are no longer a viable finance raising option.
Maybe clubs need to look at their venues being outside of their 'sphere of influence'. Pokies venues are like any other financial decision - are they located in a place where money could be made? As an example, if it means that the Eagles Club (or a venue run by the club under another name) is operating in another area, so be it. It's a simple business decision.

If pokes aren't the way to go...what else are clubs going to do to raise funds? In these times, you have to have a sophisticated method of fundraising to ensure there's a high turnover. Clubs have always made money out of licenced venues (some might also argue that this is an evil - albeit a necessary one, same as pokies) but now they need more to create a cash flow to finance the football operations.

[JK]

Well said DW

[Dogwatcher]

Sadly, I believe it's true. Because much like the players, the owners also rely on pokies very heavily, as do our government.
The Government should be looking at funding opportunities to support those clubs/pubs that don't have pokies to maintain their facilities and services. We should be encouraging venues to be cutting back on their pokie dependence (not just saying that we are encouraging it).
Mr Xenephon was our No Pokies MP but really what did he achieve in that sphere? I can't see any major legislation that was passed in reducing pokies.
There's a lack of will from our government to cut back.
I'd suggest that's why he went Federal. He can recreate himself as the Senator for Lost Causes, but at least he's no longer got the pokies millstone around his neck as that's a State jurisdiction. He likes the Today Tonight of politicians (talking up battling for the little guy, in order to achieve his own aims).

[Pseudo]

I was of the belief that were it not for pokies, a few clubs would have gone by the wayside a long time ago. They may or may not be ruining the SANFL, but if they didn't exist then the SANFL probably wouldn't be there to get ruined, at least not in its current form.

[SDK]

Like a multitude of others I was in favor of poker machines when they were introduced because I like so many others thought they were for clubs only. I dont think the majority of people realized that every pub in the state could have them.
That is the problem...too many venues.
To me there is only one solution and that is to reduce the taxes paid by social and sporting clubs. Looking now at Norwood's Financial Report the turnover was 3,418.583 ( which includes food and bar takings ) and the gaming tax was 967,949 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most non profit companies or co-ops are tax exempt in many situations so why not sporting clubs.
FFS the club works its proverbial off and makes a small profit...the government does NOTHING and rakes in 900,000 ! Hardly fair.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Mr Xenephon was our No Pokies MP but really what did he achieve in that sphere? I can't see any major legislation that was passed in reducing pokies.

Oh dunno about that, word around the campfire is that he passed on all his tax funded anti North Adelaide files to the owners of the Northern Tavern to continue the fight against evil.
Win win, North bought the pub & have kicked on while the pokie kings got a big quid to add a new craft at the marina.
Salt of the earth type of fella, just ask the Holden workers.

[Mickyj]

Mr Xenephon was our No Pokies MP but really what did he achieve in that sphere? I can't see any major legislation that was passed in reducing pokies.

Oh dunno about that, word around the campfire is that he passed on all his tax funded anti North Adelaide files to the owners of the Northern Tavern to continue the fight against evil.
Win win, North bought the pub & have kicked on while the pokie kings got a big quid to add a new craft at the marina.
Salt of the earth type of fella, just ask the Holden workers.

Mr Xenephon IMHO he is a loud mouth grandstander who likes to spoil some peoples fun and achieve very little .Now I understand there are some poor people who are addicted to poker machines and everything should be done to help them.
But if Mr Xenephon was honest he would also have campaigned against alcohol and tobacco they would cause just as much or more problems in society.
HELL he should have banned the TAB if he was really worried about people gambling away their money.

Don't get me wrong I have no problems with the above things(dont forget I spent many years growing up around greyhound tracks) .But some people are just prone to get addicted to something in life.Umm don't anyone mention football or fishing
And if it wasnt poker machines it would be Scientology or some strange religion like googlism .

Cheers
Mick

[Mic]

Not sure if they are ruining the SANFL but I reckon they are ruining most of Australia's pubs.

[holden78]

Our joke of a state govt. ( mining boom ? ! ? ) could and should slightly lower its significant tax grap out of clubs ( not pubs ) which on the whole promote sport , as a stimulis for the future . Can you imagine no SANFL or if it fell back to amateur league level .

[Barto]

Not sure if they are ruining the SANFL but I reckon they are ruining most of Australia's pubs.

This. I used to go to the local pub to catch up with mates over a few beers, play some pool etc.

I cant see how the pokies are "sociable".

[SDK]

I have never put 1 cent into the pokies since they have been here.
Cant see the fun in them and cant see the sense in playing against a machine that is programmed to beat you...you can not win over time.

[Psyber]

I have never put 1 cent into the pokies since they have been here.
Cant see the fun in them and cant see the sense in playing against a machine that is programmed to beat you...you can not win over time.

Absolutely, that's why I think they should be restricted to true clubs where the membership are clearly advised that playing them is a contribution to club funds.
Then the government can quit taxing them because there are few and the revenue would be small.
At present the governments of all the states are addicted to gambling revenue, and will permit the big venues to do whatever they like for the income.re of the income.
This is a conflict of interest situation governments should not get into in the first place.

[Dutchy]

I have never put 1 cent into the pokies since they have been here.
Cant see the fun in them and cant see the sense in playing against a machine that is programmed to beat you...you can not win over time.

agree, pokies are evil, terrible form of gambling, lotteries are probably the only thing that are worse

at least if you go to the races there is a winner in each race, you just need to pick it, with the pokies you know you cant get a win with every spin

They have their place in Sporting and community clubs where the profits can be responsibly distributed towards the communuity, currently all they do is fatten publicans wallets (which makes me sick also)

[stan]

I have never put 1 cent into the pokies since they have been here.
Cant see the fun in them and cant see the sense in playing against a machine that is programmed to beat you...you can not win over time.

Absolutely, that's why I think they should be restricted to true clubs where the membership are clearly advised that playing them is a contribution to club funds.
Then the government can quit taxing them because there are few and the revenue would be small.
At present the governments of all the states are addicted to gambling revenue, and will permit the big venues to do whatever they like for the income.re of the income.
This is a conflict of interest situation governments should not get into in the first place.

Thats a good thought Psyber but in a time when governments are facing smaller bugets and there big projects falling into the toilet, there is no chance in hell they would do anything to damage that Tax Revenue.

[Psyber]

I have never put 1 cent into the pokies since they have been here.
Cant see the fun in them and cant see the sense in playing against a machine that is programmed to beat you...you can not win over time.

Absolutely, that's why I think they should be restricted to true clubs where the membership are clearly advised that playing them is a contribution to club funds.
Then the government can quit taxing them because there are few and the revenue would be small.
At present the governments of all the states are addicted to gambling revenue, and will permit the big venues to do whatever they like for the income.re of the income.
This is a conflict of interest situation governments should not get into in the first place.

Thats a good thought Psyber but in a time when governments are facing smaller bugets and there big projects falling into the toilet, there is no chance in hell they would do anything to damage that Tax Revenue.

You are right there. Perhaps they'd like to put up government backed, and taxed, drug vending machines in the pubs and clubs too.
Oops - I shouldn't have raised the idea..

[SDK]

The governments will never get rid of pokies for obvious reasons but I return to my original point.....the Government CAN reduce taxes to sporting and community clubs and would hardly notice the difference.

[Barto]

How about ZERO tax to community clubs and an increased tax to businesses? Just a thought.

[Psyber]

How about ZERO tax to community clubs and an increased tax to businesses? Just a thought.

Headline: "Unemployment looms as business cuts costs!"
Having once or twice been involved in running a small business, I can assure you they rarely make much money, except in boom times - that's why I got out.
Yet the last figures I saw suggested small business provides a lot of the jobs in this country - this means the owners work for peanuts a lot of the time.

[Barto]

How about ZERO tax to community clubs and an increased tax to businesses? Just a thought.

Headline: "Unemployment looms as business cuts costs!"
Having once or twice been involved in running a small business, I can assure you they rarely make much money, except in boom times - that's why I got out.
Yet the last figures I saw suggested small business provides a lot of the jobs in this country - this means the owners work for peanuts a lot of the time.

I think I might have phrased it badly, I meant people who are in the business of making money out of poker machines. Unless that's what you're running of course.

I didn't mean an increase in tax on ALL businesses.