The Voice Referendum - Oct 2023

[MW]

I find it appalling this is costing $400m and coalition have said they will roll it out again if their result does not go to plan.

[Jimmy_041]

When Dutton is the only opposition then Albo could literally lay a steaming turd in the middle of Rundle Mall and it wouldn’t make one iota of difference.
Albo and Labor have a free hit for at least the next election and possibly longer.

We went through all of this when Abbott was appointed as Leader
Much derision - Liberals will disintegrate - unelectable etc etc
Take a trip down memory lane https://safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25879&hilit=tony+abbott
(Interesting side note that a lot of those posters are no longer on here)

It's actually dangerous for Labor to fall for it because they then act accordingly - hubris
If they lose this referendum / Qantas sore gets even more infected / COL or mortgage rates continue to go up (regardless of who's fault it is)
Nek minnut - Shorten gets his hopes up and we're back on the merry go round

In the meantime, I would suspect some Liberals will be grooming someone else
I cant see Speirs lasting much longer here

[Corona Man]

I find it appalling this is costing $400m and coalition have said they will roll it out again if their result does not go to plan.

Do it once, do it right. Not sure Albo gets that part.

[Jim05]

When Dutton is the only opposition then Albo could literally lay a steaming turd in the middle of Rundle Mall and it wouldn’t make one iota of difference.
Albo and Labor have a free hit for at least the next election and possibly longer.

We went through all of this when Abbott was appointed as Leader
Much derision - Liberals will disintegrate - unelectable etc etc
Take a trip down memory lane https://safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25879&hilit=tony+abbott
(Interesting side note that a lot of those posters are no longer on here)

It's actually dangerous for Labor to fall for it because they then act accordingly - hubris
If they lose this referendum / Qantas sore gets even more infected / COL or mortgage rates continue to go up (regardless of who's fault it is)
Nek minnut - Shorten gets his hopes up and we're back on the merry go round

In the meantime, I would suspect some Liberals will be grooming someone else
I cant see Speirs lasting much longer here

Dutton is unelectable and as such whilst he is there they zero chance.
COL is a huge issue but the whole Qantas thing will blow over eventually.

[Jimmy_041]

Dutton is unelectable and as such whilst he is there they zero chance.
COL is a huge issue but the whole Qantas thing will blow over eventually.

Agree with all that
It will be interesting how long it will take the government to cave in on Qatar
Stupid thing to do with the PM and a couple of government ministers looking pretty silly. Cant even get their reasoning in sync.
The whole Qantas swamp is toxic so they would be better off cutting their losses - problem is how they do it and save face.

[Dutchy]

I don't totally understand it however I also don't see the harm of having it in place so Ill be a Yes voter until someone convinces me its a bad thing.

[Jim05]

Dutton is unelectable and as such whilst he is there they zero chance.
COL is a huge issue but the whole Qantas thing will blow over eventually.

Agree with all that
It will be interesting how long it will take the government to cave in on Qatar
Stupid thing to do with the PM and a couple of government ministers looking pretty silly. Cant even get their reasoning in sync.
The whole Qantas swamp is toxic so they would be better off cutting their losses - problem is how they do it and save face.

Well work email today to announce Joyce is resigning immediately and in fairness he has only been in caretaker mode to guide Vanessa through but she has had the reigns for a little while now.
The problem with the Feds is that they still treat Qantas as “theirs” when they are a private company and as such should be treated as one and not receive preferential treatment. The pollies on all sides though are scared of losing their benefits though.
As to Qatar I think it will be overturned but there is also a lot of furphy’s being told and it’s a very murky industry

[Jimmy_041]

Dutton is unelectable and as such whilst he is there they zero chance.
COL is a huge issue but the whole Qantas thing will blow over eventually.

Agree with all that
It will be interesting how long it will take the government to cave in on Qatar
Stupid thing to do with the PM and a couple of government ministers looking pretty silly. Cant even get their reasoning in sync.
The whole Qantas swamp is toxic so they would be better off cutting their losses - problem is how they do it and save face.

Well work email today to announce Joyce is resigning immediately and in fairness he has only been in caretaker mode to guide Vanessa through but she has had the reigns for a little while now.
The problem with the Feds is that they still treat Qantas as “theirs” when they are a private company and as such should be treated as one and not receive preferential treatment. The pollies on all sides though are scared of losing their benefits though.
As to Qatar I think it will be overturned but there is also a lot of furphy’s being told and it’s a very murky industry

Agree with all that.
Qantas is not the national carrier and hasn't been since they floated in 1995. Cathay used to pull that crap, when I lived there in the 00's, trying to stop other arlines getting additional flights. The SCMP was all over it just like the AFR with Qantas.

Albanese doubled down in Parliament yesterday showing he's got no feasible plan how to extract himself. People may ask what this has to do with the referendum. He's the main salesman and if he's losing credibility, then he loses trust and there's a lot of "trust me" in this campaign. Couldn't have come at a worse time for the referendum.

So I said trust me.jpg (16.52 KiB) Viewed 1810 times

It must have been a nice (short term) warm feeling for his son's "luck" to get a personal invite into Chairman's Lounge membership
Speaking of which - you have to wonder who spilled the beans on it

[Booney]

Thread is < way.

[Dutchy]

What is the point of all the YES corflutes appearing? I don't get it, is that really going to convince people?

[Jimmy_041]

What is the point of all the YES corflutes appearing? I don't get it, is that really going to convince people?

I was fishing off Encounter Bay last Monday
A mate said "I'm almost expecting a frogman to break the surface with a Yes corflute"

[Booney]

What is the point of all the YES corflutes appearing? I don't get it, is that really going to convince people?

No different to any other election, I don't see how they sway people at all.

[Dutchy]

What is the point of all the YES corflutes appearing? I don't get it, is that really going to convince people?

No different to any other election, I don't see how they sway people at all.

At least during an election you see the names and faces of those in your electorate.

[Jimmy_041]

What is the point of all the YES corflutes appearing? I don't get it, is that really going to convince people?

No different to any other election, I don't see how they sway people at all.

There must be some recognition thingy going.
I've always thought they were a waste of money as well

Well, other than the candidate for Adelaide that looked like Stifflers Mum and someone went around writing Stifflers Mum on all her corflutes

[heater31]

What is the point of all the YES corflutes appearing? I don't get it, is that really going to convince people?

Worse still I saw on the Greenhill/Goodwood intersection this morning supporters standing on the footpath waving them at traffic trying to drum up support.

Things must be dire if you're out doing that in a 2 horse race....

[am Bays]

Is there any valid reason why the ABC news site is no longer reporting/showing its article on Jacinta Nampijinpa Price address to the national press club yesterday?

Not on its News front page or its sub page on The Voice

Dont expect everyone to agree with Jacinta and there's things she said yesterday I don't fully agree with (effect of colonisation) but in a free press democracy both arguments should be reported on by our national broadcaster.

This is the helps validate my change recent change in mind in how I intend to vote

[RB]

You mean this article:

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102855698

[stan]

Is there any valid reason why the ABC news site is no longer reporting/showing its article on Jacinta Nampijinpa Price address to the national press club yesterday?

Not on its News front page or its sub page on The Voice

Dont expect everyone to agree with Jacinta and there's things she said yesterday I don't fully agree with (effect of colonisation) but in a free press democracy both arguments should be reported on by our national broadcaster.

This is the helps validate my change recent change in mind in how I intend to vote

Was up on the ABC app as the main story all day yesterday, typically the news articles then drop down a bit as time goes on but I found it a few articles down.

[Aerie]

I am voting Yes. The simple and short reason being that if it was good enough for a vast majority of Indigenous leaders from all around the country to make agreement on how they see fit to move forward as a nation, via the Uluru Statement of the Heart, then it is good enough for me. Who am I to stand in the way by voting no?

I don't think many think the Indigenous Australians shouldn't be added in the constitution and be recognised as the first people here, but what good is words without some action? Aren't we beyond telling them how things should be - as Dutton is saying by voting the Voice down and calling for another referendum.

The detail of the Voice is not for the Constitution. The idea of having the Voice is what we are voting on. The detail of it is to be worked out in parliament and it will change in time. It is a practical representation in the constitution to go along with the symbolic words.

It was a pretty amazing effort to come up with a consensus on the Uluru Statement of the Heart. This is pretty good reading on how it came about: https://law.unimelb.edu.au/__data/asset ... -paper.pdf

Then there is the Makaratta that will come. That is the truth telling and the treaty, or agreements between the indigenous and the government(s). A final closing chapter to move forward together that will probably take years and years.

Nothing is ever perfect and not everyone will agree. There is the deep-seated conservatism and fear spread by Dutton and co. Then there is the more radical chain of thought of we need Treaty now, from Jacinta Price and co.

I found this podcast with Thomas Mayo good to listen to to get an understanding of what we are to vote on and get a bit more understanding of the Treaty side of things.
https://shows.acast.com/e9f65874-5f00-4 ... 0011a85915

I am an admirer of Noel Pearson. He is highly intelligent, well-learned and a brilliant speaker. If you haven't heard him speak, I would recommend looking him up on YouTube. Here is one from his speech in Adelaide earlier this year - you can skip straight to the 25 minute mark: https://youtu.be/5kT1WyQYZvI?si=bUzI74xemznVplTE&t=1505

Celebrating Australia Day as a kid and young adult. The Test Match, the fireworks. The Sydney Olympics, our cricket team dominating, Crocodile Dundee and the Americas Cup - we were the best country in the world. Then the last 15 years or so, as each Australia Day has gone by, a feeling of guilt to use the word celebrate. It felt more like ANZAC Day. A day of commemoration. I needed to read Noel Pearson's Declaration of Australia to sum up how we might be able to move forward, with pride and as one. That is to acknowledge, and recognise, the three parts that make Australia. Not everyone in this country has been as lucky as you or I, but there is no reason why we can't all be, moving forward. The link is here and I'll copy the Declaration of Australia below: https://capeyorkpartnership.org.au/in-t ... an-people/

In the spirit of getting the ball rolling, Noel Pearson offers this ‘Declaration of Australia and the Australian People’

WHEREAS THREE STORIES MAKE AUSTRALIA:

the Ancient Indigenous Heritage which is its foundation, the British Institutions built upon it, and the adorning Gift of Multicultural Migration:

And whereas Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander tribes were the First Nations of the Australian continent and its islands, possessed under ancient laws and customs, according to the reckoning of culture, from the Creation, according to the common law, from time immemorial, and according to science for more than 65 millennia. This is a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or mother nature, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born therefrom, remain attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with their ancestors. We recognise and honour the First Nations who discovered Australia as their sovereign possession, the oldest continuing civilisation in the world.

And whereas those who sailed the First Fleet landing at Sydney Cove carried upon their shoulders the common law of England, when the sovereignty of the British Crown was proclaimed. The rule of law, parliamentary government and the Australian English language have their provenance in Britain. From eyes on board ship, this was a settlement, and from eyes on shore, an invasion. We recognise the eve of the 25th and the dawn of the 26th January 1788 as a profound time for all of us, when Ancient Australia became the New Australia. We recognise and honour the Britons and Irish – convict and free – who founded our institutional heritage, making our Commonwealth from 1901, a great democracy of the globe.

And whereas peoples the earth over brought their multitude of cultural gifts to Australia. That we celebrate diversity in unity makes us a beacon unto the world. We recognise and honour our New Australians. When we renounced the White Australia policy, we made a better Commonwealth. We show that people with different roots can live together, that we can learn to read the image-bank of others, that we can look across the frontiers of our differences without prejudice or illusion.

NOW THEREFORE, with earnest and open hearts and strong desire to fill the lacuna, after more than two centuries, we make this Declaration of Australia and the Australian People, to see our reflections in each other, and recognise one and all:

Our history is replete with shame and pride, failure and achievement, fear and love, cruelty and kindness, conflict and comity, mistake and brilliance, folly and glory. We will not shy from its truth. Our storylines entwine further each generation. We will ever strive to leave our country better for our children.

We will honour the Uluru Statement from the Heart and make good upon it. Whilst English is the shared language of our Commonwealth, mother tongues name the country and sing its song-lines – and we do not want for them to pass from this land. They are part of the cultural and natural wonder of our country that is the campfire of our national soul, and the pledge of care and custody we owe our ancestral dead and unborn descendants.

After the battles of our frontier wars fell silent, diggers from the First Nations joined their Settler and New Australian comrades in the crucibles of Gallipoli, the Western Front and Kokoda, and there distilled the essence of our values:

That our mateship is and will always be our enduring bond.

That freedom and the fair go are our abiding ethic.

That our virtues of egality and irreverence give us courage to have a go.

That we know we can and always will count on each other.

Three stories make us one: Australians.

[Armchair expert]

I've voted 15 times already, how about you guys?