Grade Cricket

Local cricket is the go here. Any talk about local comps, grade cricket, etc.

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:37 am

Will the Hussey report be released in full? I've seen the article with the dot points. Was interesting to see some changes to the selection panel and high performance committee mooted.

Typically in these reviews number of grade clubs seems to be the popular go to every time the Redbacks finish bottom and it will solve all the problems of SA cricket which is overly simplistic in my opinion. Not so much rearranging the Titanic's deck chairs but simply deciding how many deck chairs is best
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby No kidding » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:48 am

Hussey Report 2020.pdf
(239.95 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
Tony Clifton wrote:Will the Hussey report be released in full? I've seen the article with the dot points. Was interesting to see some changes to the selection panel and high performance committee mooted.

Typically in these reviews number of grade clubs seems to be the popular go to every time the Redbacks finish bottom and it will solve all the problems of SA cricket which is overly simplistic in my opinion. Not so much rearranging the Titanic's deck chairs but simply deciding how many deck chairs is best
No kidding
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:47 pm
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 16 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:03 pm

No kidding wrote:
Hussey Report 2020.pdf

Thank you! This paragraph is spot on. An almost 'parallel pathway' has existed where players move through junior state squads, various Cricket Australia teams up in Brisbane plus Futures League. Club cricket is almost completely incidental to their career and development.

"The effect of participation in the current High Performance system has created a sense of entitlement for many young players, not just in SA but around the country. They feel the Pathways Programme will assist them to by-pass Premier Cricket to achieve long and successful first-class careers. This has proven to be unsuccessful and created a myriad of problems such as, devaluing the importance of Premier Cricket and creating behavioural traits that won’t set players up for long-term success"
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby No kidding » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:01 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:
No kidding wrote:
Hussey Report 2020.pdf

Thank you! This paragraph is spot on. An almost 'parallel pathway' has existed where players move through junior state squads, various Cricket Australia teams up in Brisbane plus Futures League. Club cricket is almost completely incidental to their career and development.

"The effect of participation in the current High Performance system has created a sense of entitlement for many young players, not just in SA but around the country. They feel the Pathways Programme will assist them to by-pass Premier Cricket to achieve long and successful first-class careers. This has proven to be unsuccessful and created a myriad of problems such as, devaluing the importance of Premier Cricket and creating behavioural traits that won’t set players up for long-term success"


Here in lies the central issue and the fact that this report is a bit like the Crows review.
Wanted to be seen as hard hitting and brutal yet the key message sees the SACA as a toothless tiger worried more about their own selves as opposed to the overall betterment of cricket in SA

3b....Reduce the number of Premier Grade teams to between 8-10 and remove the bye.
This decision is to be made by the clubs.
No kidding
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:47 pm
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 16 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Eagles2014 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:16 pm

No kidding wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:
No kidding wrote:
Hussey Report 2020.pdf

Thank you! This paragraph is spot on. An almost 'parallel pathway' has existed where players move through junior state squads, various Cricket Australia teams up in Brisbane plus Futures League. Club cricket is almost completely incidental to their career and development.

"The effect of participation in the current High Performance system has created a sense of entitlement for many young players, not just in SA but around the country. They feel the Pathways Programme will assist them to by-pass Premier Cricket to achieve long and successful first-class careers. This has proven to be unsuccessful and created a myriad of problems such as, devaluing the importance of Premier Cricket and creating behavioural traits that won’t set players up for long-term success"


Here in lies the central issue and the fact that this report is a bit like the Crows review.
Wanted to be seen as hard hitting and brutal yet the key message sees the SACA as a toothless tiger worried more about their own selves as opposed to the overall betterment of cricket in SA

3b....Reduce the number of Premier Grade teams to between 8-10 and remove the bye.
This decision is to be made by the clubs.


Agree with this. The "Clubs' have not been able to sort this issue out for decades.

We needed the report to say "how" to do it!
Eagles2014
Veteran
 
Posts: 3556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:56 pm
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 524 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:34 pm

I really like aerie's idea he posted on the previous page.

An 8 team Premier Grade

The 5 clubs who miss out have their 1st Grade play in the 2nd Grade

Promotion/relegation system in place which keeps everyone on their toes.

Perhaps implement a rule that all contracted and Emerging Redbacks players must play for one of the 8 Premier Grade clubs so the strength of the competition increases in two ways:
1) the 8 consistently best performing clubs play against each other, completely removing the traditionally 'easy' games against perennial strugglers
2) the best cricketers from the 5 other clubs would spread among these 8 clubs, strengthening them

Sure a club in the bottom 5 might be a bit miffed to be placed in a lower grade and potentially lose a player or two but if they look at it practically they still have their club, ground, history, identity plus can get back into 1st Grade if their performances warrant. And the alternative is merger so what would be worse?

Getting rid of 5 clubs or having 5 mergers won't happen surely so this would be a way to solve the problem with less of the angst.

Get rid of zones too. Survival of the fittest. Force clubs to run themselves well to compete and attract/retain players.

The 8 clubs must field women's teams too. Not having to do that will cheer up the 5 clubs who miss out on a spot!
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Off The Wall » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:19 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:Perhaps implement a rule that all contracted and Emerging Redbacks players must play for one of the 8 Premier Grade clubs so the strength of the competition increases in two ways:
1) the 8 consistently best performing clubs play against each other, completely removing the traditionally 'easy' games against perennial strugglers
2) the best cricketers from the 5 other clubs would spread among these 8 clubs, strengthening them

:rolleyes:

So what you want is to effectively kill off the other 5 clubs by never allowing them to have their top talent. You cant have a relegation/promotion system if you only want to cater for 8 out of the 13 clubs.
Off The Wall
Under 16s
 
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:54 am
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 22 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby the smokey » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:52 pm

The clubs can not have a say anymore it has been proven time and time again that this will not work.

They need to announce that this will be the last year that the competition runs as it has done, and that a new competition of 8 clubs will commence in 2021/22 - and that these announcements will be made in Feb March of 2020/21 to allow some clubs to close out their time in the SACA competition.

the 13 clubs if they wish should have a chance to present to a committee (not the SACA board) and should present a strategic plan (on and off-field) as to why they should be in the comp.

Then 8 teams should be selected and the remaining 5 should then be reallocated to the ATCA comp and move on from there. Sides moving from ATCA to grade have happened before as well as some clubs fielding sides in ATCA comps as well.

At no stage should the clubs have a say in this decision other than their pitch about what they can bring to the new competition. Mergers could be considered but everything would need to be ironed out and the pitch/presentation presented as one club at that time.

During this process, there are going to be a lot of people and clubs that get their noses out of joint and get really upset but in the end of the day this isnt about individual clubs or individual people this is about making cricket better in SA not only for the short but long term as well, and just like in business when you are future planning sometimes people and in this case, clubs need to be removed.
the smokey
Rookie
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:19 pm
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 27 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:03 pm

Off The Wall wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:Perhaps implement a rule that all contracted and Emerging Redbacks players must play for one of the 8 Premier Grade clubs so the strength of the competition increases in two ways:
1) the 8 consistently best performing clubs play against each other, completely removing the traditionally 'easy' games against perennial strugglers
2) the best cricketers from the 5 other clubs would spread among these 8 clubs, strengthening them

:rolleyes:

So what you want is to effectively kill off the other 5 clubs by never allowing them to have their top talent. You cant have a relegation/promotion system if you only want to cater for 8 out of the 13 clubs.

Having divisions in every soccer competition in the world hasn't killed off all the clubs

And regardless, the question is what is best for South Australian cricket rather than what is best for the most lowly clubs

Also don't forget the other options are to merge or cease to exist.
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby tigerpie » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:13 pm

Arch44 wrote:Dgrade cricket at Grade level is a farce and has been for a while. I have said this before my son (22) now, in his 1st year at senior level straight out of 16s one his clubs Dgrade bowling trophy, the following year he couldn't get a game because of older blokes in there 40s and 50s were being selected first. Surely grade cricket is about prepping guys coming through with the hope of playing shield cricket?

No shield player ever came through d grade.
Unless he was 12 when he played.
tigerpie
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4111
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:00 pm
Has liked: 498 times
Been liked: 429 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:27 pm

tigerpie wrote:
Arch44 wrote:Dgrade cricket at Grade level is a farce and has been for a while. I have said this before my son (22) now, in his 1st year at senior level straight out of 16s one his clubs Dgrade bowling trophy, the following year he couldn't get a game because of older blokes in there 40s and 50s were being selected first. Surely grade cricket is about prepping guys coming through with the hope of playing shield cricket?

No shield player ever came through d grade.
Unless he was 12 when he played.

Would certainly strengthen the case for changing grades if they put some facts and figures to it

Out of our local state and national representatives, how many played U14 Whites on their way through? U16 Whites? 4th Grade? 3rd Grade etc

Or maybe it wouldn't

Either way it would be interesting to see
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby the smokey » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:33 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:
tigerpie wrote:
Arch44 wrote:Dgrade cricket at Grade level is a farce and has been for a while. I have said this before my son (22) now, in his 1st year at senior level straight out of 16s one his clubs Dgrade bowling trophy, the following year he couldn't get a game because of older blokes in there 40s and 50s were being selected first. Surely grade cricket is about prepping guys coming through with the hope of playing shield cricket?

No shield player ever came through d grade.
Unless he was 12 when he played.

Would certainly strengthen the case for changing grades if they put some facts and figures to it

Out of our local state and national representatives, how many played U14 Whites on their way through? U16 Whites? 4th Grade? 3rd Grade etc

Or maybe it wouldn't

Either way it would be interesting to see


Travis Head definetely played D grade criccket but did it at 13 or 14 and was playing A grade cricket by 15
the smokey
Rookie
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:19 pm
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 27 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Off The Wall » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:07 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:
Off The Wall wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:Perhaps implement a rule that all contracted and Emerging Redbacks players must play for one of the 8 Premier Grade clubs so the strength of the competition increases in two ways:
1) the 8 consistently best performing clubs play against each other, completely removing the traditionally 'easy' games against perennial strugglers
2) the best cricketers from the 5 other clubs would spread among these 8 clubs, strengthening them

:rolleyes:

So what you want is to effectively kill off the other 5 clubs by never allowing them to have their top talent. You cant have a relegation/promotion system if you only want to cater for 8 out of the 13 clubs.

Having divisions in every soccer competition in the world hasn't killed off all the clubs

And regardless, the question is what is best for South Australian cricket rather than what is best for the most lowly clubs

Also don't forget the other options are to merge or cease to exist.

Youve completely missed the point. It's locking players into the top division that isnt right. If a team like Kensington suddenly get relegated, all their state contracted players will have to switch clubs under your idea.

Bring in divisions though, akin to the ASCA system.
Off The Wall
Under 16s
 
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:54 am
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 22 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:23 pm

Off The Wall wrote:Youve completely missed the point. It's locking players into the top division that isnt right. If a team like Kensington suddenly get relegated, all their state contracted players will have to switch clubs under your idea.

How is that a bad thing?

Having the best players spread out over 13 teams is the problem remember. If those players follow Kensington into the lower grade that's a bad thing.

Incentive not to finish bottom. Keeps everyone on their toes. Drives the standard up rather than trying to make it ok for clubs to perform badly.

You'd maybe have a playoff match to determine promotion. 1st Grade wooden spooner vs 2nd Grade premier. So promotion/relegation only occurs *if* one of the five 1st Grade team wins the 2nd Grade premiership and *if* they beat the 1st Grade wooden spooner in the playoff match.
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Eagles2014 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:02 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:
Off The Wall wrote:Youve completely missed the point. It's locking players into the top division that isnt right. If a team like Kensington suddenly get relegated, all their state contracted players will have to switch clubs under your idea.

How is that a bad thing?

Having the best players spread out over 13 teams is the problem remember. If those players follow Kensington into the lower grade that's a bad thing.

Incentive not to finish bottom. Keeps everyone on their toes. Drives the standard up rather than trying to make it ok for clubs to perform badly.

You'd maybe have a playoff match to determine promotion. 1st Grade wooden spooner vs 2nd Grade premier. So promotion/relegation only occurs *if* one of the five 1st Grade team wins the 2nd Grade premiership and *if* they beat the 1st Grade wooden spooner in the playoff match.


Think Premier and Wooden Spoon should definitely switch, should be the result of the years work and not come down to bit of luck on the day.
Eagles2014
Veteran
 
Posts: 3556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:56 pm
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 524 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:44 pm

Eagles2014 wrote:Think Premier and Wooden Spoon should definitely switch, should be the result of the years work and not come down to bit of luck on the day.

Fair enough!

Dog eat dog.

Would certainly fire things up. No coasting. Is what's needed.
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby tigerpie » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:33 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:
Eagles2014 wrote:Think Premier and Wooden Spoon should definitely switch, should be the result of the years work and not come down to bit of luck on the day.

Fair enough!

Dog eat dog.

Would certainly fire things up. No coasting. Is what's needed.

You'd think, given the limited time state players play grade cricket, that they'd make the most of their time there.
Make big runs, take 5 fa's so their club doesn't fall into the relegation zone making them vulnerable when away
tigerpie
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4111
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:00 pm
Has liked: 498 times
Been liked: 429 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby billy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:14 pm

Agree wholeheartedly with what is being said here, we need to have 2 divisions and it needs to start immediately. Don't merge the clubs, keep their identity and avoid the ridiculous bunfight as has been stated, the strong, motivated clubs will survive.

4th grade, 14 whites and 16 whites have produced shield and test players but it has absolutely nothing to do with the current argument.

We need to improve our system as it is drastically underperforming, grade clubs need more coaching resources and more specialised/targeted programs . If you have talented 10 year olds you will find a way to give them opportunity in your 13 program - having 14 reds/whites/16reds/whites etc etc spreads resources way too thinly and works directly against the best kids going to senior cricket as quickly as possible.

The competitions need to be restructured as we can't afford to wander along like we are, the vote on Monday just reflected the same age old rubbish.

Self interest won out again, the leaders at SACA need to be more direct and make this happen. The Grade Cricket Committee has shown it does not work again with outdated thinking reflected with the very short sighted outcome, 4th grade needs to go and the junior system needs to be restructured to fit with a high quality first grade competition with 8 teams.
billy
Member
 
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:29 pm
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 26 times
Grassroots Team: Andamooka

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Aerie » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:38 am

Keeping in the October-March time-frame, I reckon you could do something like:

Premier Grade - 8 Teams - Three Trophies
- 3-day comp (Sat + Sat/Sun) 7 Rounds plus 4-day Final (Sat/Sun + Sat/Sun) to finish season
- 1-day comp 7 Rounds (Saturdays) plus Final done by January
- T20 comp 7 Rounds (mid week evenings) Final done by February
- All senior state level players or players aspiring to play state level for that season or the next would play for Premier Grade clubs

A combination of the three competitions above to determine who would have a possibility of being relegated by finishing bottom.

Players playing Premier Grade would play 7 Sunday's, plus Sunday Finals for all 3 competitions over the course of a season.

District Grade - 14 Teams - One Trophy
- Combination of 1-day and 2-day games, 13 Rounds, all played on Saturday's, except for Sat/Sun Semi Final and Final.
- I would add a new team at Mt Barker with the new facilities being currently built - servicing the Hills/Strathalbyn/Murray Bridge etc.
- The 8 Premier Grade teams to field their 2nd Grade in this competition.
- If a 1st Grade team won the premiership, they would be promoted to Premier Grade to replace the bottom team.

Reserve Grade A - Optional Entry to be determined before start of season by each club
- Essentially 3rd Grade/2nd Grade teams, up to clubs if they want to submit a team or their Reserve Grade players play for local clubs.

Reserve Grade B - Optional Entry to be determined before start of season by each club
- Essentially 4th/3rd Grade teams, up to clubs if they want to submit a team or their Reserve Grade players play for local clubs.

Every club to also have a Womens team in a similar set-up.

Juniors, just one U17, U15 and U13 team playing each weekend with fluid player movement between local clubs and grade clubs to ensure everyone is getting a game and the most committed and talented are playing in the Grade teams.
User avatar
Aerie
Coach
 
 
Posts: 5585
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:05 am
Has liked: 147 times
Been liked: 503 times

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:33 pm

Aeropti wrote:Nick Bertus to Northern Districts. very good pick up for the Jets.

Bertus not coming now?
This is Tony Clifton! A name to respect! A name to fear!
User avatar
Tony Clifton
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:00 pm
Has liked: 1462 times
Been liked: 244 times
Grassroots Team: Adelaide University

PreviousNext

Board index   Other Sports  Regional Cricket Comps

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Around the place

Competitions   SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums   Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |