Greatest Pakistani XI

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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:07 am

Failed Creation wrote:My South African XI - 1983 to Present:

Smith (c)
G. Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
AB de Villiers (wk)
Cullinan
Pollock
Philander
Steyn
Donald
Adams

Unlucky to miss out: Gibbs, Ntini, Du Plessis, Boucher, Morkel.

Paul Adams gets a gig for team balance, and because at this stage, he's taken the most wickets for a South African spinner.


There's no right or wrong here, Adams was garbage but as you've stated he has more wickets than any other spinner from SA, they have always struggled in that department but made up for it with part-timers and their batting depth.

Personally, I wouldn't list a spinner for them, you could squeeze another batsmen in their given their all-round abilities, like you said, Faf. Gibbs or Prince could slip in their and with Philander batting at 9 it is as still as strong as it gets batting wise.

Cullinan is an interesting one, for someone that struggled against us so much he has an impeccable record otherwise.

One of the toughest lists to work out, the spinner thing is probably why they've only had moderate success and never won a World Cup when they clearly should've.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby beef » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:13 am

i'd pick Pat Symcox over Adams. West Indies dont need a spinner so better off picking a part timer (like Viv Richards) to bowl a few overs if needed
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:22 am

One of my faves

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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:22 am

beef wrote:i'd pick Pat Symcox over Adams. West Indies dont need a spinner so better off picking a part timer (like Viv Richards) to bowl a few overs if needed

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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Senor Moto Gadili » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:50 am

beef wrote:i'd pick Pat Symcox over Adams. West Indies dont need a spinner so better off picking a part timer (like Viv Richards) to bowl a few overs if needed

If you pick a spinner I'd go Pat Symcox. If you don't need a spinner I'd go Lance Kleusner. They're both nutters.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:03 pm

My Indian XI - 1983 to Present:

Sehwag
Shastri
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Dhoni (wk)
Kapil Dev (c)
Kumble
Ashwin
Zaheer Khan

Unlucky to miss out: Gavaskar (played a few years too ealry, otherwise he'd have taken Shastri's spot), Harbhajan Singh, Srinath, Ganguly.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:10 pm

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:
beef wrote:i'd pick Pat Symcox over Adams. West Indies dont need a spinner so better off picking a part timer (like Viv Richards) to bowl a few overs if needed

If you pick a spinner I'd go Pat Symcox. If you don't need a spinner I'd go Lance Kleusner. They're both nutters.


Symcox: 20 Tests, 37 wickets at 43.32, economy rate 2.70, strike rate 96.2.
Adams: 45 Tests, 134 wickets at 32.87, economy rate 2.98, strike rate 66.0.

If I was wanting the better bat of the two, Symcox wins by a country mile. Symcox averaged 28.5 with one Test century, compared to Adams' average of 9.0 with a high score of 35.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:14 pm

Failed Creation wrote:Symcox: 20 Tests, 37 wickets at 43.32, economy rate 2.70, strike rate 96.2.
Adams: 45 Tests, 134 wickets at 32.87, economy rate 2.98, strike rate 66.0.

If I was wanting the better bat of the two, Symcox wins by a country mile. Symcox averaged 28.5 with one Test century, compared to Adams' average of 9.0 with a high score of 35.

But Symcox would've been more fun to get on the piss with.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:Symcox: 20 Tests, 37 wickets at 43.32, economy rate 2.70, strike rate 96.2.
Adams: 45 Tests, 134 wickets at 32.87, economy rate 2.98, strike rate 66.0.

If I was wanting the better bat of the two, Symcox wins by a country mile. Symcox averaged 28.5 with one Test century, compared to Adams' average of 9.0 with a high score of 35.

But Symcox would've been more fun to get on the piss with.


If that's the case, I ought to have picked Brian McMillan too.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:32 pm

Failed Creation wrote:My Indian XI - 1983 to Present:

Sehwag
Shastri
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Dhoni (wk)
Kapil Dev (c)
Kumble
Ashwin
Zaheer Khan

Unlucky to miss out: Gavaskar (played a few years too ealry, otherwise he'd have taken Shastri's spot), Harbhajan Singh, Srinath, Ganguly.


Ravi Shastri was a unique story, he debuted as a number 10 batsman and spin bowler, it was at a time when every Indian player on tour had scored a first class century so batting depth was extreme, he moved up the order progressively and then became a successful opener.

Personally, being a bit older and witnessing just how good Gavaskar was, I'd have him over Ravi, Tendulkar was successful any where in the top 4 and this Pujara bloke getting about is going to be right up there by the time he's done, Azharuddin stakes some claims as does Navjot Sidhu.

It's probably the toughest XI to select out of any, just so many guns but also hard to pick quicks due to the sub-continent conditions.

Javagal Srinath was a great toiler, as was Irfan Pathan, Roger Binny and Ishant Sharma, I'd say that Mohammed Shami will eventually make the XI.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby RB » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:18 pm

I'm a bit surprised you mentioned Mohammed Shami and not Bumrah, although I agree Shami is great value.

Ishant on the other hand is very ordinary in my book, not in the same ballpark.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:31 pm

RB wrote:I'm a bit surprised you mentioned Mohammed Shami and not Bumrah, although I agree Shami is great value.

Ishant on the other hand is very ordinary in my book, not in the same ballpark.

I thought Ishant was very handy a few years ago, years of bowling in the sub-continent takes it out of most.

Yeah, Bumrah is as good as we've seen from an Indian pace bowler, his action does concern me over time though as I reckon he'll suffer back problems from it.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Minimum Chips » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:34 pm

Failed Creation wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:Symcox: 20 Tests, 37 wickets at 43.32, economy rate 2.70, strike rate 96.2.
Adams: 45 Tests, 134 wickets at 32.87, economy rate 2.98, strike rate 66.0.

If I was wanting the better bat of the two, Symcox wins by a country mile. Symcox averaged 28.5 with one Test century, compared to Adams' average of 9.0 with a high score of 35.

But Symcox would've been more fun to get on the piss with.


If that's the case, I ought to have picked Brian McMillan too.

and Andre Nel and Nantie Hayward
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:52 pm

Minimum Chips wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:Symcox: 20 Tests, 37 wickets at 43.32, economy rate 2.70, strike rate 96.2.
Adams: 45 Tests, 134 wickets at 32.87, economy rate 2.98, strike rate 66.0.

If I was wanting the better bat of the two, Symcox wins by a country mile. Symcox averaged 28.5 with one Test century, compared to Adams' average of 9.0 with a high score of 35.

But Symcox would've been more fun to get on the piss with.


If that's the case, I ought to have picked Brian McMillan too.

and Andre Nel and Nantie Hayward


I'd have a beer with Hayward, but Nel seems like a dick.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:55 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:My Indian XI - 1983 to Present:

Sehwag
Shastri
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Dhoni (wk)
Kapil Dev (c)
Kumble
Ashwin
Zaheer Khan

Unlucky to miss out: Gavaskar (played a few years too ealry, otherwise he'd have taken Shastri's spot), Harbhajan Singh, Srinath, Ganguly.


Ravi Shastri was a unique story, he debuted as a number 10 batsman and spin bowler, it was at a time when every Indian player on tour had scored a first class century so batting depth was extreme, he moved up the order progressively and then became a successful opener.

Personally, being a bit older and witnessing just how good Gavaskar was, I'd have him over Ravi, Tendulkar was successful any where in the top 4 and this Pujara bloke getting about is going to be right up there by the time he's done, Azharuddin stakes some claims as does Navjot Sidhu.

It's probably the toughest XI to select out of any, just so many guns but also hard to pick quicks due to the sub-continent conditions.

Javagal Srinath was a great toiler, as was Irfan Pathan, Roger Binny and Ishant Sharma, I'd say that Mohammed Shami will eventually make the XI.


It will be interesting to see if our sides would be different in 10-20 years time, of if we'd have been born in a different era.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:03 pm

Failed Creation wrote:
It will be interesting to see if our sides would be different in 10-20 years time, of if we'd have been born in a different era.

More than likely, purely because the minnows becoming test playing nations which will drive up the averages.

India are ranked #1 on the test rankings, and for good reason, not many nations are on the improve but they are widening the gap between themselves and the rest.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby westozfalcon » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:26 pm

I'm a bit late getting in on this but going back to the Pakistanis, I reckon many of their players from the older eras, despite inferior statistics, had more courage and determination than those of the modern era. This would be my team:

Majid Khan
Mudassar Nazar
Hanif Mohammad
Javed Miandad ( c )
Zaheer Abbas
Younis Khan
Imran Khan’
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari (wk)
Abdul Qadir
Sarfraz Nawaz

Mohammad Asif (12th)
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby FlyingHigh » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:32 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
RB wrote:I'm a bit surprised you mentioned Mohammed Shami and not Bumrah, although I agree Shami is great value.

Ishant on the other hand is very ordinary in my book, not in the same ballpark.

I thought Ishant was very handy a few years ago, years of bowling in the sub-continent takes it out of most.

Yeah, Bumrah is as good as we've seen from an Indian pace bowler, his action does concern me over time though as I reckon he'll suffer back problems from it.


Agreed. After years of medium pacers, early on it seemed India had found a genuinely quick bowler of quality in Ishant but he seemed to flatline, even regress at times, after that first tour (2007?)
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby The Dark Knight » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:11 pm

FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
RB wrote:I'm a bit surprised you mentioned Mohammed Shami and not Bumrah, although I agree Shami is great value.

Ishant on the other hand is very ordinary in my book, not in the same ballpark.

I thought Ishant was very handy a few years ago, years of bowling in the sub-continent takes it out of most.

Yeah, Bumrah is as good as we've seen from an Indian pace bowler, his action does concern me over time though as I reckon he'll suffer back problems from it.


Agreed. After years of medium pacers, early on it seemed India had found a genuinely quick bowler of quality in Ishant but he seemed to flatline, even regress at times, after that first tour (2007?)

Yes 2007.
Has a respectable bowling average now of 32.68, his 2018 (41 wickets @21.80) and 2019 (25 @15.56) has helped bring that down from 36.55 at the end of 2017.
His average at home 31.38 is better than away, 33.34 but has taken only 98 wickets at home from 37 matches and 194 away from 59 matches.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:50 am

westozfalcon wrote:I'm a bit late getting in on this but going back to the Pakistanis, I reckon many of their players from the older eras, despite inferior statistics, had more courage and determination than those of the modern era. This would be my team:

Majid Khan
Mudassar Nazar
Hanif Mohammad
Javed Miandad ( c )
Zaheer Abbas
Younis Khan
Imran Khan’
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari (wk)
Abdul Qadir
Sarfraz Nawaz

Mohammad Asif (12th)


How old are you mate? I've heard that Hanif was their greatest batsman but he was before my time.

You've selected a very hard-nosed blue collar team, Majid Khan and Sarfraz Nawaz were tough battlers, Qasim "Carpet-head" Umar fitted this category too.
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