AFL 2019 season

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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby beef » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:23 pm

Brad Hardie Ron Evans and Jim Deane first 3 inductees. Apparently no legend this year and reports of first female being inducted tonight.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby carey » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:24 pm

beef wrote:Brad Hardie Ron Evans and Jim Deane first 3 inductees. Apparently no legend this year and reports of first female being inducted tonight.



Caro?
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby carey » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:26 pm

Helen D’Amico
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby gadj1976 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:37 pm

beef wrote:Brad Hardie Ron Evans and Jim Deane first 3 inductees. Apparently no legend this year and reports of first female being inducted tonight.


Posthumously?

Jill Lindsay?
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby RB » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:08 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
beef wrote:
Booney wrote:
beef wrote:Here come all the port supporters wanting their 30 odd premierships.


Are you ok with the Sydney Swans claiming South Melbourne premierships as their own?

Not really but happy with Carlton to add 6. Will be another 100 years before we add another 1 the way we're travelling. Didn't say i agreed i just knew the Port supporters would say something. Probably Freo as well if they have any on here.

Fremantle hadn't been a club since 1899, but heck, they had a fair run in a short time.
I'm waiting for Nigel Smart and co to claim the 1886 SANFL premiership for the Crows.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby beef » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:26 pm

Ken hunter Trevor barker and Mick malthouse inducted.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby saintal » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:38 pm

Pleasing to see Jimmy Deane and Trevor Barker inducted. Coincidently, neither played in a final during their distinguished careers.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Dutchy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:11 pm

I know he was popular but struggling to see how Trevor Barker gets in on his footy record
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby saintal » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:22 pm

Dutchy wrote:I know he was popular but struggling to see how Trevor Barker gets in on his footy record


Must admit I was a little surprised, albeit I'm not old enough to have watched him play or truly understand his influence on the club.

For what it's worth- 230 games, 134 goals, couple of B+Fs in an ordinary period, 7 SOO games.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby tigerpie » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:59 am

Dutchy wrote:I know he was popular but struggling to see how Trevor Barker gets in on his footy record

I tend to agree. Great player, but a lot have similar records.
Someone said earlier its become a bit of a participation award.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Spargo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 am

tigerpie wrote:
Dutchy wrote:I know he was popular but struggling to see how Trevor Barker gets in on his footy record

I tend to agree. Great player, but a lot have similar records.
Someone said earlier its become a bit of a participation award.


This started back in 2007 when Dean Kemp was inducted.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby tigerpie » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:21 am

Kemp was at least a two time premiership player, norm smith medalist and all Australian.

Any glenelg supporters wonder why Chris McDermott hasn't been inducted?
Bloody impressive resume.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Booney » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:36 am

tigerpie wrote:Kemp was at least a two time premiership player, norm smith medalist and all Australian.

Any glenelg supporters wonder why Chris McDermott hasn't been inducted?
Bloody impressive resume.


Ken Farmer not a legend.

Tim Evans, Scott Hodges, Greg Phillips, Mark Williams

John Cahill only as a coach.

That's without thinking of other SA clubs, Andrew Jarman, Garry McIntosh etc.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Brodlach » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:38 am

Mark Williams and Ken Farmer not :shock:
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Booney » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:40 am

Brodlach wrote:Mark Williams and Ken Farmer not :shock:


Ken Farmer is in there, but isn't a legend.

Mark Williams isn't in there at all.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby David Brent » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:44 am

tigerpie wrote:
Dutchy wrote:I know he was popular but struggling to see how Trevor Barker gets in on his footy record

I tend to agree. Great player, but a lot have similar records.
Someone said earlier its become a bit of a participation award.


Form my little understanding of Barker was he almost the Modra of his time perhaps? Was his exciting play & grabs that made him so loved in the game. I think that can be taken into consideration a little bit when it comes to these things. That got crowds through the gates.

As much as Matthew Richardson is my favourite player of all time I feel he might have got in under this consideration a little bit as well. He has a great Richmond record but its probably similar to a lot of other club greats across the league.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby RB » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:02 pm

Booney wrote:
Brodlach wrote:Mark Williams and Ken Farmer not :shock:


Ken Farmer is in there, but isn't a legend.

Mark Williams isn't in there at all.
The 'Legends' category is ridiculously lacking in non-Victorians ATM.

Robran is the only one who didn't play in the VFL.
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Booney » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:50 pm

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-20 ... 4CnujOjjRo

The AFL Commission is reportedly set to accept a recommendation, driven by Geelong president Colin Carter, that would dramatically change how we view the pre-VFL era.

The move would see premierships won between 1870 and 1896, primarily in the VFA, recognised by the league just as VFL/AFL flags are.

“I look at the history of football and it offends me because it’s wrong,” Carter told the Herald Sun.

Yet there are a number of reasons why the Commission should reconsider this proposal.

After all, as the national competition, the AFL essentially now controls footy’s history books. But that doesn’t mean it should be rewriting them.

THE VFA WAS A DIFFERENT COMPETITION

This seems to be a very basic counter argument.


In 1896, a split occurred in the VFA, with the strongest clubs Collingwood, Essendon, Fitzroy, Geelong, Melbourne and South Melbourne taking Carlton and St Kilda with them to create a new competition - the VFL.

The two leagues ran concurrently, as they do today as the AFL and VFL, but often used different rules. The VFA was the first league to go from 20 on-field players to 18; the VFL followed two years later.

Clubs continued to leave the VFA for the VFL, with Richmond (in 1908), Footscray, North Melbourne and Hawthorn (all in 1925) all defecting.

We do not lose any premierships to now-defunct clubs by adding those won between 1870 and 1896; over that period, Geelong won seven, Carlton six, South Melbourne five, Essendon four, Melbourne three and Collingwood and Fitzroy one each. They were all foundation members of the VFL.

But they played in a league run much differently, against many different clubs, and as detailed below, won those premierships in often bizarre circumstances.

VFA PREMIERSHIPS CAN BE EASILY DISPUTED

While the VFA was founded in 1877, this did not mean it immediately enforced a strict set of rules.

Fixtures were up to the discretion of the clubs; they could play against the other VFA metropolitan clubs, but also against provincial sides or even against junior teams while handicapped - for example, 23 players to 20.

This lack of central enforcement, which finally began in 1894, led to some bizarre circumstances.

In 1877, for example, Carlton (14 wins, 3 losses, 4 draws) was named premier despite winning two fewer games than Melbourne (16 wins, 3 losses, 4 draws).

But to make matters even more complicated, one of Carlton’s games was seemingly played under rugby union rules, during a trip to the colony of New South Wales.

In the October 13, 1877 edition of The Australasian newspaper, Peter Pindar wrote: “The first of those (inter-colonial matches) — between Carlton and Waratah, at Sydney, on the 23rd and 25th of June, consisting of two games, one under the Rugby Union code, won by the Waratah by two goals to none, and one under the Victorian code, won by Carlton by six goals to none — pretty clearly demonstrated the superiority of the Victorian game over the Rugby Union one.”

Both of those matches against Waratah are counted as part of Carlton’s overall record for the 1877 season.

There was no official way to determine a premier from 1877-87; it wasn’t until 1888 that premiership points were introduced. In this early period, a general consensus formed around the team which suffered the fewest losses.

Yet this wasn’t always consistent. In 1878, when Geelong went unbeaten from its 17 matches, it was forced to play Melbourne (11 wins from 23 games) in a playoff.

This was because Geelong, a provincial side, was seen to have played a much weaker fixture by virtue of its lack of metropolitan opposition. Geelong won the playoff.

In 1887, Carlton (15-1, two draws) won the premiership over Geelong (16-2, three draws).

However Geelong protested because one of its matches — a loss to Ballarat Imperial with eight of its best 20 players unavailable — was arranged informally, not on the initial VFA fixture and not expected by the club to be counted officially. Had the match not been counted, Geelong would have likely at least faced Carlton in a playoff for the flag.

There are many stories like these. If we can very easily dispute the decisions behind VFA premierships, why should we consider them equal to those won in the VFL/AFL?

WE’RE ALREADY IGNORING THE HISTORIES OF NON-VICTORIAN CLUBS

Whenever the VFL/AFL ‘premierships ladder’ is brought up, you already hear a simple complaint from fans of non-Victorian sides: ‘The VFL is not the AFL’.

While historically, it is, you can see the argument. West Coast has won four flags since entering the national competition, which places it outright second on the AFL premierships ladder, behind only Hawthorn.

Instead, the official VFL/AFL ladder has the Eagles equal-10th. To add the VFA premierships to the list only further works against non-Victorian clubs.

Taken to its logical extreme, we should be adding state league premierships to this new list. That would only impact Port Adelaide, which dominated the SANFL before its AFL entry; other clubs, like Fremantle, may have drawn partly from state league sides but were otherwise brand new creations.

If we do add the flags won by the SANFL Magpies, suddenly they rocket to the top of the list with 35 (or 37 if you include the two the team won post-AFL entry).

We can’t imagine the Victorian clubs would be thrilled with that.

WHAT SHOULD WE DO INSTEAD?

The solution to this ‘problem’ seems obvious.

Let clubs acknowledge as many premierships as they want. If Carlton wants to say it has won 22 flags, based on its 16 in the VFL/AFL and 6 in the VFA, go for it. The same goes for Port Adelaide and its SANFL success.

Do what you want - it’s your football club. But as a collective, let’s not pick and choose which eras of history we value and those we don’t.

THE VFL/AFL PREMIERSHIP LADDER

1. Carlton (16)

1. Essendon (16)

3. Collingwood (15)

4. Hawthorn (13)

5. Melbourne (12)

6. Richmond (11)

7. Geelong (9)

8. Fitzroy (8)

9. South Melbourne/Sydney (5)

10. North Melbourne (4)

10. West Coast (4)

12. Brisbane Lions (3)

13. Adelaide (2)

13. Footscray/Western Bulldogs (2)

15. Port Adelaide (1)

15. St Kilda (1)

17. Brisbane Bears (0)

17. Fremantle (0)

17. Gold Coast (0)

17. Greater Western Sydney (0)

17. University (0)

THE POST-1870 VFA/VFL/AFL PREMIERSHIP LADDER

1. Carlton (22)

2. Essendon (20)

3. Collingwood (16)

3. Geelong (16)

5. Melbourne (15)

6. Hawthorn (13)

7. Richmond (11)

8. South Melbourne/Sydney (10)

9. Fitzroy (9)

10. North Melbourne (4)

10. West Coast (4)

12. Brisbane Lions (3)

13. Adelaide (2)

13. Footscray/Western Bulldogs (2)

15. Port Adelaide (1)

15. St Kilda (1)

17. Brisbane Bears (0)

17. Fremantle (0)

17. Gold Coast (0)

17. Greater Western Sydney (0)

17. University (0)

THE AFL ONLY PREMIERSHIP LADDER

1. Hawthorn (5)

2. West Coast (4)

3. Brisbane Lions (3)

3. Geelong (3)

5. Adelaide (2)

5. Collingwood (2)

5. Essendon (2)

5. North Melbourne (2)

9. Sydney (2)

10. Carlton (1)

10. Port Adelaide (1)

10. Richmond (1)

10. Western Bulldogs (1)

14. Fremantle (0)

14. Gold Coast (0)

14. Greater Western Sydney (0)

14. Melbourne (0)

14. St Kilda (0)

THE VFA/SANFL/VFL/AFL PREMIERSHIP LADDER

1. Port Adelaide (35 or 37, depending on inclusion of post-AFL entry SANFL flags)

2. Carlton (22)

3. Essendon (20)

4. Collingwood (16)

4. Geelong (16)

6. Melbourne (15)

7. Hawthorn (13)

8. Richmond (11)

9. South Melbourne/Sydney (10)

10. Fitzroy (9)

11. North Melbourne (4)

11. West Coast (4)

13. Brisbane Lions (3)

14. Adelaide (2)

14. Footscray/Western Bulldogs (2)

16. St Kilda (1)

17. Brisbane Bears (0)

17. Fremantle (0)

17. Gold Coast (0)

17. Greater Western Sydney (0)

17. University (0)
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby Jim05 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:21 pm

The VFL/AFL is the continuation of the same competition the VFA isn’t. Pretty simple I would have thought. Perhaps Gil the Dill wants to be in charge for the 150th Birthday celebrations [emoji3]
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Re: AFL 2019 season

Postby woodublieve12 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:47 pm

did freo have a wafl side at all?
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