The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[valleys07]

Nobody cares about the integrity of the NEAFL. it only kicked off in 2011 so who in NSW/QLD gives a shit about that?

With Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS ( all AFL run ) in there why would the AFL change that?

The biggest cost impost, the Victorian based sides have the VFL working for them. Why send up to 6 or 8 sides flying out of Victoria each week?

So, put that into perspective and it's the two WA and two SA based clubs who are the most likely to want an AFL reserves. 4 out of 18 clubs. It isn't going to happen.

Would you get 6-8 Victorian sides flying out of Victoria each week if an AFL reserves fixture was aligned to that of the AFL?

Bring back the curtain raiser.

[whufc]

If there was a genuine reserves AFL it would be tge reserves sides always follow the league side

I'm sure you could get Foxtel to help fund it as they would love showing some reserves games to lead into AFL games

[mighty_tiger_79]

Unlikely to get that many on one weekend.


I'd love to see the ressies playing before the league. Always used to watch the glenelg ressies before the league.

[whufc]

Unlikely to get that many on one weekend.


I'd love to see the ressies playing before the league. Always used to watch the glenelg ressies before the league.

I wouldn't think all games we should but there could a Friday afternoon game on fox and maybe a Saturday and Sunday morning game they could show in the morning as well

[mighty_tiger_79]

No it's all or nothing

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[wild dog]

Have a look at the commission http://www.sanfl.com.au/sanfl/sa_football_commission/ and you will see a bunch of fat drunk pigs with their snouts in the trough

EFA

Could be an element of that. Still, can something be done about it?

Sadly our once great league will go the same way as the last mob crooked Johnny was involved with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I-CNEQBJhk

OK so that's a Motorola link. I get your point and understand you think the guy in charge is not trustworthy. Im certainly not defending anyone, I just wonder are there people out there that are interested in actually trying to do something? How many would it take?

[wild dog]

The crows have said they don't want to fork out $500k to play in a AFL reserves comp

But they shell out 400k to play in the SANFL each year?

Yep, that's the stupidity of it all

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Well it's simple really.
AFL do not want an AFL reserves side so the fact Adelaide would need to fork out $500k for it is mute as it is not their decision.
SANFL agreed to have Adelaide in the SANFL at $400k and Adelaide accepted.

Or we have to read what the actual agreement is. Ive done a quick google search for the agreement, and found Wikipedia Adelaide SANFL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Football_Club_(SANFL) and Adelaide Football Clubs web site http://www.afc.com.au/news/2013-08-15/sanfl-agreement-details-

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

[matt35]

I would be happy to see the fee renegotiated; is it not $150k per club in the WAFL? Something close to or on that mark is probably where it should be.

[JohnnyG]

Or we have to read what the actual agreement is. Ive done a quick google search for the agreement, and found Wikipedia Adelaide SANFL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Football_Club_(SANFL) and Adelaide Football Clubs web site http://www.afc.com.au/news/2013-08-15/sanfl-agreement-details-

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

Now what about the fees paid (lol) by that other freeloading AFL club?
- and not only do they have AFL reserves team, they also have an academy side in the SANFL reserves making it a farcical 9 teams there.

[wild dog]

I would be happy to see the fee renegotiated; is it not $150k per club in the WAFL? Something close to or on that mark is probably where it should be.

Yes I have read that stated elsewhere. Personally I think a proper case for compensation needs to be calculated. This case must include the loss of the SANFL as a brand with regards to its previous reputation as an alternative to the AFL. Interstate players thought it, and it would not take much to interview past players to establish the loss of reputation. Massive compensation would be due for the depletion of a brand, so its not just reduction in crowd numbers and subsequent drop in revenue.

The SANFL believe they are an administrator of football in the state, ranging from juniors, community, country, SANFL and then somehow the AFL. How this SANFL - AFL interrelationship is defined is a difficult question. The current paradigm is we are here to cooperate and not compete. I think if an organisation to challenge the current situation was created, its this part that needs addressing.

The time is here now, for supporters of the league to make a stand. What type of numbers would it take to present to the commission. What type of structure would an organisation which promotes this change need to take. How much money would need to be raised. Is there enough interest to make it happen? Are you in for the long haul, or do you just want to stop attending games to make your message?

[therisingblues]

Or we have to read what the actual agreement is. Ive done a quick google search for the agreement, and found Wikipedia Adelaide SANFL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Football_Club_(SANFL) and Adelaide Football Clubs web site http://www.afc.com.au/news/2013-08-15/sanfl-agreement-details-

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

Bloody good work there Wild Dog
A couple of myths dispelled there. One was that it is a ten year agreement. The information you have supplied here says that it is a 15 year agreement. Ouch!
But...
The 12 month notice period, now does that dovetail with the 15 year term? So before the end of fourteen years we would have to notify them if we have decided not to renew the agreement?
I am not so sure because it actually is worded "terminate the agreement", which would suggest that we have some power to terminate the agreement at any time, provided that we give 12 months notice? Some clarification of that would be helpful. If it proves that we do just need give 12 months notice if the clubs agree to terminate the agreement, that would surely be a focus for a much needed campaign to have them ousted from the league.
Worth investigating further.

[wild dog]

Or we have to read what the actual agreement is. Ive done a quick google search for the agreement, and found Wikipedia Adelaide SANFL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Football_Club_(SANFL) and Adelaide Football Clubs web site http://www.afc.com.au/news/2013-08-15/sanfl-agreement-details-

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

Now what about the fees paid (lol) by that other freeloading AFL club?
- and not only do they have AFL reserves team, they also have an academy side in the SANFL reserves making it a farcical 9 teams there.

I hear you Johnny G, but in my opinion the weakness here is the Adelaide agreement. If I were to be part of an organisation (and I want to be) to actively challenge the current situation in a concerted, organised and passionate way, I would be going after Adelaide. They have failed to fulfil their promised crowd increase, a massive part of their sell. Its a huge fail, it cant just be glossed over with a sheepish grin and a "shell be alright." The Adelaide Football Club have failed in creating a resurgent league, based on their premise that the league was failing. That premise has proven to be wrong. The numbers back us up, we now have a couple of years of crowd numbers, we have an Adelaide dominating in the finals, and we have no crowds.

Too all of you defenders of the AFL reserves, explain why the Adelaide Crowds have not turned up to the finals at their home ground. I would love to hear your explanations.

BTW Johnny, Port also have a real weakness with their argument and mantra, but I think we need to keep some of our powder dry.

[wild dog]

[A couple of myths dispelled there. One was that it is a ten year agreement. The information you have supplied here says that it is a 15 year agreement. Ouch!
But...
The 12 month notice period, now does that dovetail with the 15 year term? So before the end of fourteen years we would have to notify them if we have decided not to renew the agreement?
I am not so sure because it actually is worded "terminate the agreement", which would suggest that we have some power to terminate the agreement at any time, provided that we give 12 months notice? Some clarification of that would be helpful. If it proves that we do just need give 12 months notice if the clubs agree to terminate the agreement, that would surely be a focus for a much needed campaign to have them ousted from the league.
Worth investigating further.

Im not sure theri and remember this is just a summary on the AFC website. Who knows how accurate it is. I would like to get hold of the full agreement. I would also like to have someone out there with some contractual experience and a legal background to also study it. Personally I have contractual experience, but its not from a legal background. Obviously lawyers get involved, and often a good synergy results.

I like the wording "terminate the agreement" though. It does suggest power, we just need to have 3 more clubs to obtain that power if we assume South and Centrals are aligned. Regarding 12 months then so be it, would be a nice time period to organise a good send off.

[Pseudo]

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

I was led to believe that the terms of the Clowns presence was to be reviewed annually, purportedly so that fine-tuning could occur. Chiggy mentioned this at the GFC information night.

I have heard that since then the clubs have made suggestions for change to the SANFL - and have been broadly told to **** off. "A deal is a deal" , apparently.

I very much suspect that a review of the license fee will be handled in a similar fashion.

[therisingblues]

[A couple of myths dispelled there. One was that it is a ten year agreement. The information you have supplied here says that it is a 15 year agreement. Ouch!
But...
The 12 month notice period, now does that dovetail with the 15 year term? So before the end of fourteen years we would have to notify them if we have decided not to renew the agreement?
I am not so sure because it actually is worded "terminate the agreement", which would suggest that we have some power to terminate the agreement at any time, provided that we give 12 months notice? Some clarification of that would be helpful. If it proves that we do just need give 12 months notice if the clubs agree to terminate the agreement, that would surely be a focus for a much needed campaign to have them ousted from the league.
Worth investigating further.

Im not sure theri and remember this is just a summary on the AFC website. Who knows how accurate it is. I would like to get hold of the full agreement. I would also like to have someone out there with some contractual experience and a legal background to also study it. Personally I have contractual experience, but its not from a legal background. Obviously lawyers get involved, and often a good synergy results.

I like the wording "terminate the agreement" though. It does suggest power, we just need to have 3 more clubs to obtain that power if we assume South and Centrals are aligned. Regarding 12 months then so be it, would be a nice time period to organise a good send off.

Surely our clubs would have a copy of the agreement? I totally agree, we need access to the full agreement in black and white. It might be spelled out so that even a layman such as myself could understand it, and hence be even easier for someone with experience reading contracts, like yourself. Or we might need the legals to interpret it, can't say until it is presented in its naked glory.
If the clubs are beginning to realise this lose/lose situation for what it really is, then a way out of this nightmare might just exist. Ultimately the push has to be from them. If supporters realise that a legitimate means of having them dumped from the competition in 12 months time actually, genuinely exists, then we need a campaign to get the clubs to act.
Permanent damage is just a couple of years away IMO. Something needs to happen soon.

[therisingblues]

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

I was led to believe that the terms of the Clowns presence was to be reviewed annually, purportedly so that fine-tuning could occur. Chiggy mentioned this at the GFC information night.

I have heard that since then the clubs have made suggestions for change to the SANFL - and have been broadly told to **** off. "A deal is a deal" , apparently.

I very much suspect that a review of the license fee will be handled in a similar fashion.

Are they holding some sort of metaphorical gun to the club's heads? What is it they have over us to make the clubs go from a unanimous "NO" vote to a minimum required "YES" vote and then putting up with all this god damn arrogant crap? Surely if their proposal was so tenuous, with so many clauses written into the agreement, the clubs had grounds for specifying them.

[johntheclaret]

But they shell out 400k to play in the SANFL each year?

Yep, that's the stupidity of it all

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

Well it's simple really.
AFL do not want an AFL reserves side so the fact Adelaide would need to fork out $500k for it is mute as it is not their decision.
SANFL agreed to have Adelaide in the SANFL at $400k and Adelaide accepted.

Or we have to read what the actual agreement is. Ive done a quick google search for the agreement, and found Wikipedia Adelaide SANFL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Football_Club_(SANFL) and Adelaide Football Clubs web site http://www.afc.com.au/news/2013-08-15/sanfl-agreement-details-

Regards the point you are making, the statement from the Adelaide Football Clubs site says

COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE
Commitment & Licence Fee
•15 year term, reviewed annually by the SANFL
•12 month notice period for SANFL & SANFL Clubs to terminate agreement
•AFC to pay an annual licence fee – 50% on December 1st and 50% on June 1st to the SANFL for their involvement in the SANFL League Competition
•In 2014, this fee is to be $400K ($50K per SANFL Club), with CPI increases for the 2015 and 2016 seasons
•Licence fee to be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season, with CPI increases a minimum for subsequent seasons

which would mean the last point is relevant. We do have the ability at the end of this season to substantially increase the fee. This must be revisited and I suggest that all on here contact their respective clubs and demand they at least get proper compensation from the Adelaide Football Club to replace lost revenues since the introduction of the reserves teams.

Is the CPI the same as the RPI in the UK which is the Retail Price Index. If it is then any increases would be index linked and can only be increased in line with inflation.
Another poor decision by the SANFL. Effectively, they agreed to be tied to inflation rate increases before they had any evidence of the affect the AFL Reserves teams would have on the SANFL League clubs.

Surely any junior negotiator would want to link any Fee increases to the performance of the other promises made by Adelaide. Example, Adelaide said they would increase the gates by 4,000. Even using a basic calculation of 4,000 total attendance, any number less than this increases the fee by the twice the Percentage. Simple really, average attendance per SANFL, say 2,000 (1/2) then the fee doubles to $100k per club.

It would have motivated Adelaide to at least promote the SANFL and try to get numbers to the ground, knowing that if they didn't it would cost them cold, hard cash.
As it is, there is no monetary motivation for Adelaide to do anything in favour of the SANFL. It's no wonder they don't give a shit about anything SANFL with the cushy deal they got.

[Magellan]

The time is here now, for supporters of the league to make a stand. What type of numbers would it take to present to the commission. What type of structure would an organisation which promotes this change need to take. How much money would need to be raised. Is there enough interest to make it happen? Are you in for the long haul, or do you just want to stop attending games to make your message?

Happy to lend assistance to this worthy cause, wild dog.

[Magellan]

Surely our clubs would have a copy of the agreement? I totally agree, we need access to the full agreement in black and white. It might be spelled out so that even a layman such as myself could understand it, and hence be even easier for someone with experience reading contracts, like yourself. Or we might need the legals to interpret it, can't say until it is presented in its naked glory.
If the clubs are beginning to realise this lose/lose situation for what it really is, then a way out of this nightmare might just exist. Ultimately the push has to be from them. If supporters realise that a legitimate means of having them dumped from the competition in 12 months time actually, genuinely exists, then we need a campaign to get the clubs to act.
Permanent damage is just a couple of years away IMO. Something needs to happen soon.

Certainly an analysis of the agreement is good place to start, and I would've thought the clubs would have a copy somewhere. I'm sure that the 'yes' clubs would be reluctant to hand it over, lest their overlords crack the shits. Maybe the Bulldogs might accede to a well-worded request?

[therisingblues]

JTC
It actually says "to be reviewed at the end of 2016 season".
The CPI applies"in subsequent seasons", and then as a "minimum".
I don't think we are painted into a corner as yet.