The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby bennymacca » Fri May 23, 2014 12:29 pm

areaman wrote:
Dols wrote:was a quiet bottle of red, dam forgot to set my alarm!!!!!!

Since when did Port fans start drinking quiet bottles of red? ;)

Next you'll say you've been up all night reading poetry or something.


He means a cask of goon
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby SimonH » Fri May 23, 2014 5:38 pm

kickinit wrote:You do realise the laws of the game that the SANFL play under are written by the AFL. Also if the SANFL want to change any rules for their competition (e.g. 50mtr rule to 25mtr) they have to apply to the AFL to change it. Below is the link from the SANFL page laws of the game. You will notice on the front page the big AFL logo just above the Laws of Australian football 2014. You should also read rule 2.3.

http://www.sanfl.com.au/umpires/laws_of_the_game/
Have a look at rule 2.1. The laws are binding on, and give certain powers in relation to Controlling Bodies. A Controlling Body is defined to include:
any league, association or body responsible for the organisation
and conduct of Matches of Australian Football, who has
determined to play such Matches in accordance with these Laws
.

That means, 'those bodies that choose to be bound by these Laws, are bound by these Laws'. And state leagues (and other sub-state league comps) choose to be bound by them, because the AFL would stamp its feet and threaten to turn off the money tap if they didn't. In terms of legitimacy, it's simply 'we're here because we're here'.

There is actually great accuracy in the title page: they truly are the 'AFL Laws of Australian Football' and not the official and only laws of Australian football, because there is no such thing. There is only a private body, with no particular mandate other than that it's the successor to the VFL, is based in the most populous football-playing state, and it controls the cash—plus with the abolition of the ANFC/NFC by about the 1980s, it has no meaningful competitor as the entirely self-appointed 'guardian of the game'. But if the AFL went belly-up tomorrow, then the game of Australian Rules football would hardly cease to exist; and the broad agreements, and slight regional differences, in how it's played wouldn't change, either.

Cricket realised quite a few decades ago that there was an inherent conflict in having the game worldwide administered by a private club ('Marylebone Cricket Club') that also had the interests of the private club to look after. (As a nice historical aside, the rump function of the MCC which is still delegated to it by the ICC, is to amend and control the laws of cricket.) Hopefully the AFL will come to that same realisation in our lifetime, and there will be a demerger/split and a new body created. The AFL is either the successor to the VFL where it's looking after the interests of the VFL clubs plus a few franchises that have been brought in to prop them up and expand the value of the TV rights, or it's the custodian of the game in Australia and worldwide. It can't be both.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby johntheclaret » Fri May 23, 2014 6:06 pm

SimonH wrote:
kickinit wrote:You do realise the laws of the game that the SANFL play under are written by the AFL. Also if the SANFL want to change any rules for their competition (e.g. 50mtr rule to 25mtr) they have to apply to the AFL to change it. Below is the link from the SANFL page laws of the game. You will notice on the front page the big AFL logo just above the Laws of Australian football 2014. You should also read rule 2.3.

http://www.sanfl.com.au/umpires/laws_of_the_game/
Have a look at rule 2.1. The laws are binding on, and give certain powers in relation to Controlling Bodies. A Controlling Body is defined to include:
any league, association or body responsible for the organisation
and conduct of Matches of Australian Football, who has
determined to play such Matches in accordance with these Laws
.

That means, 'those bodies that choose to be bound by these Laws, are bound by these Laws'. And state leagues (and other sub-state league comps) choose to be bound by them, because the AFL would stamp its feet and threaten to turn off the money tap if they didn't. In terms of legitimacy, it's simply 'we're here because we're here'.

There is actually great accuracy in the title page: they truly are the 'AFL Laws of Australian Football' and not the official and only laws of Australian football, because there is no such thing. There is only a private body, with no particular mandate other than that it's the successor to the VFL, is based in the most populous football-playing state, and it controls the cash—plus with the abolition of the ANFC/NFC by about the 1980s, it has no meaningful competitor as the entirely self-appointed 'guardian of the game'. But if the AFL went belly-up tomorrow, then the game of Australian Rules football would hardly cease to exist; and the broad agreements, and slight regional differences, in how it's played wouldn't change, either.

Cricket realised quite a few decades ago that there was an inherent conflict in having the game worldwide administered by a private club ('Marylebone Cricket Club') that also had the interests of the private club to look after. (As a nice historical aside, the rump function of the MCC which is still delegated to it by the ICC, is to amend and control the laws of cricket.) Hopefully the AFL will come to that same realisation in our lifetime, and there will be a demerger/split and a new body created. The AFL is either the successor to the VFL where it's looking after the interests of the VFL clubs plus a few franchises that have been brought in to prop them up and expand the value of the TV rights, or it's the custodian of the game in Australia and worldwide. It can't be both.


Yeah, what he said ^

I was about to say the very same but you beat me to it ;)
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby kickinit » Fri May 23, 2014 7:09 pm

SimonH wrote:
kickinit wrote:You do realise the laws of the game that the SANFL play under are written by the AFL. Also if the SANFL want to change any rules for their competition (e.g. 50mtr rule to 25mtr) they have to apply to the AFL to change it. Below is the link from the SANFL page laws of the game. You will notice on the front page the big AFL logo just above the Laws of Australian football 2014. You should also read rule 2.3.

http://www.sanfl.com.au/umpires/laws_of_the_game/
Have a look at rule 2.1. The laws are binding on, and give certain powers in relation to Controlling Bodies. A Controlling Body is defined to include:
any league, association or body responsible for the organisation
and conduct of Matches of Australian Football, who has
determined to play such Matches in accordance with these Laws
.

That means, 'those bodies that choose to be bound by these Laws, are bound by these Laws'. And state leagues (and other sub-state league comps) choose to be bound by them, because the AFL would stamp its feet and threaten to turn off the money tap if they didn't. In terms of legitimacy, it's simply 'we're here because we're here'.

There is actually great accuracy in the title page: they truly are the 'AFL Laws of Australian Football' and not the official and only laws of Australian football, because there is no such thing. There is only a private body, with no particular mandate other than that it's the successor to the VFL, is based in the most populous football-playing state, and it controls the cash—plus with the abolition of the ANFC/NFC by about the 1980s, it has no meaningful competitor as the entirely self-appointed 'guardian of the game'. But if the AFL went belly-up tomorrow, then the game of Australian Rules football would hardly cease to exist; and the broad agreements, and slight regional differences, in how it's played wouldn't change, either.

Cricket realised quite a few decades ago that there was an inherent conflict in having the game worldwide administered by a private club ('Marylebone Cricket Club') that also had the interests of the private club to look after. (As a nice historical aside, the rump function of the MCC which is still delegated to it by the ICC, is to amend and control the laws of cricket.) Hopefully the AFL will come to that same realisation in our lifetime, and there will be a demerger/split and a new body created. The AFL is either the successor to the VFL where it's looking after the interests of the VFL clubs plus a few franchises that have been brought in to prop them up and expand the value of the TV rights, or it's the custodian of the game in Australia and worldwide. It can't be both.


Well they are the official laws of Australian Football. Definition of Australian Football is the contest played between two Teams competing in accordance with these Laws. Both the AFL and SANFL say this. That is simply because any football league that is created at state level will come under the governing body for that state. All of the governing body are a affiliate of the AFL, which means they follows these laws. If they didn't follows these laws of the games they wouldn't be able to be the governing body of football in their state. At the end of the day the Australian sports commission has appointed the AFL as the Governing body of football in Australia.

The AFL is recognised by the Australian Sports Commission (ASC) as the governing body responsible for the management and development of Australian Football in Australia


http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20 ... Policy.pdf
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby StrayDog » Fri May 23, 2014 8:59 pm

kickinit wrote:
The AFL is recognised by the Australian Sports Commission (ASC) as the governing body responsible for the management and development of Australian Football in Australia


http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20 ... Policy.pdf

For "recognised", read "self appointed and politically endorsed" (post NFL / ANFC / 1993).

Might be splitting hairs though.
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Darkness there, and nothing more."


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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby twosheds » Sat May 24, 2014 12:16 am

bennymacca wrote:So what is Andy otten's priority when he plays reserves?

And how does that differ from what the club wants for him?


Once again :roll:
1) Andy Otten's priority is to put his name up for selection in the AFL side, winning helps that. OK so far ? Lets say a couple of players who play a similar role in the AFL side have had a couple of average weeks, still with me ? Sanderson is at the Crows reserves game and sees Otten tearing it up so at half time he has seen enough and tells Younie to tell Otten to hit the showers. (Otten has been pencilled in for the AFL side next week -still with me ? ) The reserves are one less on the bench and Joe Bloggs from Nowheresville FC plays the second half. Not really "playing to the line" is it ? not really putting your best side out there is it ?
2) It doesn't but so what ? I don't deny the club wants all the players on their list at the top of their game ,that much is obvious, but the potential for situations as noted above completely destroy any credibility Trigg,Sanderson et al think they might have.
Before you ask for a list of times this has happened ; I don't watch Adelaide reserves games so I don't know, however the fact that it can is wrong whichever way you spin it.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby bennymacca » Sat May 24, 2014 2:22 am

That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby JK » Sat May 24, 2014 3:42 am

bennymacca wrote:That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...


So you're trying to change the direction of the discussion back to last year when there were no AFL clubs in the comp? Exactly what do you want again??
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby twosheds » Sat May 24, 2014 8:39 am

bennymacca wrote:That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...


Yep , ( thank you Captain Obvious ) and no-one liked it then either BUT we really don't like it now that we have been assured it wont happen,that the reserves team will be trying to win, "playing to the line" when its patently obvious to any clear thinking person that they are not. This is the point you seem to have difficulty grasping.
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The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby bennymacca » Sat May 24, 2014 10:13 am

JK wrote:
bennymacca wrote:That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...


So you're trying to change the direction of the discussion back to last year when there were no AFL clubs in the comp? Exactly what do you want again??


A rational discussion about this and for people to stop making stupid statements.

Saying they won't try to win for whatever reason is stupid. Particularly with the way port are going. Why didn't they take the foot off the gas against glenelg when they were 10 goals up?

And I want an afl reserves comp
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby tipper » Sat May 24, 2014 11:42 am

bennymacca wrote:
JK wrote:
bennymacca wrote:That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...


So you're trying to change the direction of the discussion back to last year when there were no AFL clubs in the comp? Exactly what do you want again??


A rational discussion about this and for people to stop making stupid statements.

Saying they won't try to win for whatever reason is stupid. Particularly with the way port are going. Why didn't they take the foot off the gas against glenelg when they were 10 goals up?

And I want an afl reserves comp


the arguments above are rational, what is stupid is dismissing them because you disagree
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Apachebulldog » Sat May 24, 2014 12:02 pm

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6929188443

Have you guys read this crap read and have a laugh i have posted a comment on it LOL LOL especially about crowds being up by yes FORTY persons per game LAUGHABLE !!!!!
SANFL 2000 - 2011 Central District 12 consecutive Grand Final appearances and 9 Premierships.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFF.

Hit em hard let them get up and hit em again.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby topsywaldron » Sat May 24, 2014 2:42 pm

Just emailed this to Chris Davies.

Hi Chris,

I know your job is to sell the concept of the two reserves teams being a meaningful part of the SANFL but for a vast majority of SANFL supporters you are fighting a losing battle, to put it mildly and politely. Enough has been written about the destruction of integrity, the insurmountable distortions of having three different sets of rules for the teams that it doesn't need repeating here.

This season was always going to go Ok, ok being the operative word here, your employers couldn't afford it not to. However it claim crowds are up doesn't help your cause especially when it's such a risibly small number and bolstered by one off events like Walker playing for the Ravens on a long weekend.

What's more concerning are membership numbers and the crowds at games between the eight remaining SANFL teams, across the board they are down. You may point to TV figures but given our massive investment in the coverage you'd be concerned if they hadn't improved. And this investment came at a time we were told without the two AFL teams financial armageddon would engulf the remaining teams.

What's missing in all of this is the long term view, after you, John and the rest of the Commission have long departed. How you expect the eight clubs to attract members after five or ten years of having two afl clubs sucking up every kid, dollar and inch of media attention is beyond me.

The challenge for the decision makers at the SANFL over the last few years has been to subtly reposition the competition as a community based, affordable alternative to the AFL. The example of Phil Herden at The Eagles should have been your template for community engagement and involvement. Instead you, and Leigh and John, chose to take the easy option of shoehorning two teams who have destroyed the integrity and meaning of the SANFL into the competition. By doing so you have destroyed any chance of the SANFL being a meaningful, relevant sporting competition not only today but into the future.

Enjoy your nice seat and Rockford's Basket Press tonight.

Sincerely,
'People are not stupid. They know when they are being conned. And two reserves teams operating in a League competition will reduce it to a farce, a competition without a soul.'

Dion Hayman 24th July 2013
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby CedeNullis » Sat May 24, 2014 8:04 pm

Great email topsywaldron. People can see what is happening and are walking away from the SANFL. Smearing lipstick on the pig (SANFL media spin) won't change that. Port should lose their under age and zones at the end of the year but the damage is already being done. Going to the footy is a habit and once that is broken, those fans won't return. The drop in attendances will see the SANFL clubs in debt. When the governing body, the SANFL, doesn't give a stuff about the fans, you've got a problem, a big problem.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Wedgie » Sat May 24, 2014 8:19 pm

Anyone at Prospect today would say the last 12 months happenings was awful for our game.
North completely outclassed by 300% more heart than Port and still didn't get within close distance.
Worst turnout of all time I've ever seen by Port supporters and none of them there did not care about the game, no cheering, no banter.
It was really sad. :(
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby wild dog » Sat May 24, 2014 8:46 pm

bennymacca wrote:
JK wrote:
bennymacca wrote:That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...


So you're trying to change the direction of the discussion back to last year when there were no AFL clubs in the comp? Exactly what do you want again??


A rational discussion about this and for people to stop making stupid statements.

Saying they won't try to win for whatever reason is stupid. Particularly with the way port are going. Why didn't they take the foot off the gas against glenelg when they were 10 goals up?

And I want an afl reserves comp


Come on Benny answer twosheds.

Did you go to todays game Benny?
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby wild dog » Sat May 24, 2014 8:55 pm

topsywaldron wrote:Just emailed this to Chris Davies.

The challenge for the decision makers at the SANFL over the last few years has been to subtly reposition the competition as a community based, affordable alternative to the AFL. The example of Phil Herden at The Eagles should have been your template for community engagement and involvement.

=D>
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby daysofourlives » Sat May 24, 2014 9:31 pm

wild dog wrote:
bennymacca wrote:
JK wrote:
bennymacca wrote:That already happened last year when he would have been playing for another club...


So you're trying to change the direction of the discussion back to last year when there were no AFL clubs in the comp? Exactly what do you want again??


A rational discussion about this and for people to stop making stupid statements.

Saying they won't try to win for whatever reason is stupid. Particularly with the way port are going. Why didn't they take the foot off the gas against glenelg when they were 10 goals up?

And I want an afl reserves comp


Come on Benny answer twosheds.

Did you go to todays game Benny?


I don't know why you blokes bother with Benny. I gave up long ago.
He's a typical AFL/Crows nuffy
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby klaan » Sat May 24, 2014 11:27 pm

wild dog wrote:
topsywaldron wrote:Just emailed this to Chris Davies.

The challenge for the decision makers at the SANFL over the last few years has been to subtly reposition the competition as a community based, affordable alternative to the AFL. The example of Phil Herden at The Eagles should have been your template for community engagement and involvement.

=D>


Nice work Topsy, pity you didn't send it to Tripode and the other directors who voted yes, Olson and Whicker and the rest of the commission. As much as the decision annoys me, at least Davis fronts unlike the rest of them. We haven't heard boo from anyone else which shows the lack of leadership in SA football.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dols » Sat May 24, 2014 11:36 pm

klaan wrote:
wild dog wrote:
topsywaldron wrote:Just emailed this to Chris Davies.

The challenge for the decision makers at the SANFL over the last few years has been to subtly reposition the competition as a community based, affordable alternative to the AFL. The example of Phil Herden at The Eagles should have been your template for community engagement and involvement.

=D>


Nice work Topsy, pity you didn't send it to Tripode and the other directors who voted yes, Olson and Whicker and the rest of the commission. As much as the decision annoys me, at least Davis fronts unlike the rest of them. We haven't heard boo from anyone else which shows the lack of leadership in SA football.
because no one cares what you have to say.
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