Tom McKenzie vs Walter "Wacka" Scott

[Squawk]

Here's a discussion topic for the pure historians.

I'd be interested in people's objective views about who might be the more highly regarded out of Tom McKenzie and Wacka Scott - or if indeed they are absolutely on par with one another. (Personally, I doubt they can be distinguished from one another).

There are bios for both on fullpointsfooty and Wikipedia, but in short,

*both are triple Magarey Medallists (Scott got one of those retrospectively);
*both played in a similar era, with Tom finishing pre-WW1 and Wacka Starting post WW1.
*Tom Mck played 20 state games, Wacka played 38
*Both were inducted into the (innaugural?) Aust Football Hall of Fame in 1996, and (innaugural?)SANFL Hall of Fame in 2002
*Tom won one flag as a player, Wacka won four
*Wacka coached 4 different clubs over 12 years after he retired as a player, whereas war wounds rendered Tom in poor health on his return to Australia.
*Wacka played 174 games, Tom played about 200

Can anyone offer any substantive view on whether one could possibly be regarded in higher stature than another? How would either McKenzie or Scott be compared with say Ebert or Robran of the "modern" SANFL era?


http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/ma.htm#Tom%20MacKenzie%20(West%20Torrens%20&%20North%20Adelaide)
Tom MacKenzie was the first triple Magarey Medallist, winning the award in 1902 with West Torrens, and 1905 and 1906 while playing at North Adelaide. Despite rarely training MacKenzie was 'all action' once on the field, playing with a tenacity and verve which made him, along with Tom Leahy, the most popular South Australian footballer of his day. Although primarily a rover, MacKenzie could also perform with distinction in the backlines as he possessed that classic defender's attribute of never knowing when he was beaten.
McKenzie made his league debut with West Torrens in 1901, and was selected to represent South Australia that same year. He went on to make a total of 20 state appearances.
In 1904 he switched to North, and was best afield in the red and whites' 1905 grand final defeat of Port Adelaide.
He returned to West Torrens in 1909, and was captain of the club between 1911 and 1913.
MacKenzie retired from football after the outbreak of the Great War during which he fought in Egypt and France, sustaining serious wounds from shell fire in 1916. Although he survived the war he never fully regained his health, and he died in 1927 at the comparatively young age of forty-five.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Scott_(footballer)
Walter "Wacka" or "Wat" Scott was a former Australian rules footballer in the South Australian National Football League (SANFL) in the early 20th century. Scott was a high marking defender who had a large influence during a very successful part of the Norwood Football Club's history.
Playing his early football in the Adelaide Hills, in 1920 Scott was lured to play in Adelaide as a result of his employment. The three partners of the electrical firm in Adelaide where he worked all played football for Norwood.
His high marking and sound defensive skills immediately drew praise and in his first season he won his new club's best and fairest award.
In his second season he tied with Dan Moriarty of South Adelaide for the 1921 Magarey Medal - the award for the SANFL's "fairest and most brilliant" player. under the rules that applied at that time, the Leagues umpires were called to deliberate and in the event chose to award the medal to Moriarty. Scott went on to win two Magarey Medals in his own right in 1924 and 1930. In 1998 the SANFL retrospectively awarded medals to all players who had tied for the medal but lost on a "count back" or by such adjudication. Thus some 76 years after the event (and posthumously) he acquired his third medal.
In 1922 Norwood won the premiership, the first for Scott. He played in three more premierships with Norwood, including as captain-coach of the 1929 team. He won Norwood's best and fairest award a record six times.
The pinnacle of Scott's playing career occurred in 1930 when he not only won the Magarey Medal, but also captained the South Australian side in that year's interstate carnival. Scott played 38 consecutive matches for his State - an Australian record that stands to this day. He also coached the State side four times.
Sadly he injured his knee severely in the last round match of the 1930 season against Port Adelaide, and he never reached such heights again as a player. He retired as a player in 1932.
Scott coached at four clubs altogether - his beloved Norwood, West Adelaide, Glenelg and Sturt over a total of 12 seasons.
Scott was named at centre half-back in the Norwood team of the century[1].
Scott was inducted into the Australian Football Hall of Fame in 1996 and into the SANFL Hall of Fame in its first year in 2002.

[Squawk]

Plus - if anyone has any further information regarding either McKenzie or Scott, please post it, I'd love to read it!

[robranisgod]

I think that it is time to revisit Geoff Kingston and Mike Coward's 1976 of SAs best footballers from the first century :


1 – Barrie Robran (North) 1967
2 – Russell Ebert (Port) 1968
3 – Len Fitzgerald (Sturt) 1951
4 – Dan Moriarty (South) early 1900s
5 – Tom Leahy (West, North) 1904
6 – Ken Farmer (North) 1929
7 – Bob Quinn (Port) 1933
8 – Bob Hank (Torrens) 1944
9 – Ian McKay (North) 1946
10 - Lindsay Head (Torrens) 1952
11 – Jim Deane (South, Richmond) 1945
12 – Hugh Cumberland (St Kilda, Melb:, Sturt,) early 1900s
13 – Snowy Hamilton (North, West) 1919
14 – Brenton Adcock (Sturt) 1962
15 – Wacka Scott (Norwood) 1920
16 – Jack Broadstock (West, Richmond, Torrens) 1938
17 – John Cahill (Port) 1958
18 – Dlck Russell (Port) 1947
19 – Alec Lill (Norwood) 1923
20 – Frank Golding (Sturt) 1909
21 – Ken Eustice (West , Central, Glenelg) 1957
22 – Bruce McGregor (West) 1923
23 – Tom McKenzie (Torrens, North) early 1900s
24 – Jack Tredrea (South) 1903
25 – John Abley (Port) from 1950
26 – John Marriot (Norwood) 1947
27 – Blue Johnston (Glenelg) 1927
28 – Bob Barnes (West) 1921
29 – Paul Bagshaw (Sturt) 1964
30 – Don Lindner (North) 1954
31 – Harold Oliver (Port) 1910
32 – Horrie Riley (Sturt) 1922
33 – Jack Owens (Glenelg) 1924
34 – Jack Oatey (Norwood) 1940
35 – Vic Richardson (Sturt) 1920s
36 – Fos Williams (West, Port) 1946
37 – Neil Kerley (West, South, Glenelg) 1955
38 – Laurie Cahill (South) 1933
39 – Dlck Head (West) 1907
40 – Bill Mayman (Sturt) 1913


They rated Scott 15 and MacKenzie 23. On that basis you would have to say Scott. There is noone around now who would have seen them, but I am sure that Coward and Kingston would have interviewed people who would have seen them, especially Scott.

I know that they got a couple wrong, but in general they are very, very close to the mark.

Interestingly Scott is rated lowest (!!!!!!) from the three players considered to be SA's greatest half back line ever. Scott, Dan Moriarty and Snowy Hamilton. Yet it took until this year for Leaping Lindner and Michelangelo Rucci to get Hamilton into the SANFL Hall of Fame. Three players from the one line to be rated in the top 15 of the first 100 years is remarkable.

[Adelaide Hawk]

The selection of Brenton Adcock at 14 is interesting. Brenton was a fine player as an attacking back pocket player, but surely some of those players beneath him would rank as greater players wouldn't they?

I've never liked these lists, too many X-factors involved for them to be an accurate reflection. I never saw McKenzie nor Scott play, so I have no idea who would have been the greater player. Obviously both made wonderful contributions to both their clubs and to SA football, so I'm happy to lump them all in together and leave it at that.

[robranisgod]

The selection of Brenton Adcock at 14 is interesting. Brenton was a fine player as an attacking back pocket player, but surely some of those players beneath him would rank as greater players wouldn't they?

That was the main one I was referring to when I said that they got a few wrong.

[Magpiespower]

Didn't play enough league footy to ever be considered such lists, but I've often heard old Port supporters speak in awe about Ray Whittaker Jnr.

Apparently he could do freakish things few others could. Retired in 1953, aged 22 after only 79 games. Was vice-captain at the time.

But made a brief comeback from the country two years later when he answered Fos Williams' SOS call during the finals. Last league game was the grand final win against Norwood.

No doubt his brief career counted against him when Port named its "Greatest Team of the Greatest Club" because he didn't even get a nomination.

KG and Cornsey named him in their SANFL 'Top 10' years ago though I suspect that was purely to provoke some on-air debate...

[robranisgod]

Didn't play enough league footy to ever be considered such lists, but I've often heard old Port supporters speak in awe about Ray Whittaker Jnr.

Apparently he could do freakish things few others could. Retired in 1953, aged 22 after only 79 games. Was vice-captain at the time.

But made a brief comeback from the country two years later when he answered Fos Williams' SOS call during the finals. Last league game was the grand final win against Norwood.

No doubt his brief career counted against him when Port named its "Greatest Team of the Greatest Club" because he didn't even get a nomination.

KG and Cornsey named him in their SANFL 'Top 10' years ago though I suspect that was purely to provoke some on-air debate...

I, like most people here, am too young to see Whitaker play, but every "old timer" that I have ever spoken to over the years speak in awe of him and his ability. Like so many other geniuses he had his personal demons that curtailed his career. didn't Port bring him back for one or two of the premierships in the 1950s?

[Magpiespower]

Didn't Port bring him back for one or two of the premierships in the 1950s?

1955.

Only two games for the year were the prelim against Sturt and the granny against Norwood.

Also played in the 1951 premiership team...