Computer Problems..

[Grahaml]

I've been on the other side of the equation with those problems, Psyber. The problem for whoever you returned it to is they will get back a reconditioned (most likely) or new replacement of the same model. After 2 months, I suspect your board is being repaired by the manufacturer. The retailer will be getting this board, and if they swap you out for a new one they'll be stuck with a board they can't do anything with, hence they're highly reluctant to take that sort of hit when it's not actually anything they've done wrong.

Dogger, what is it doing this time? Have you tried running any anti-spyware or anti-virus programs?

PR, if you let me know exactly what it's doing I might be able to help. Whether you get any messages, or what the last thing you see before it goes cactus or whether you see nothing on the screen at all.

[Dog_ger]

My tower light is green.....

My LCD screen shows a sign " No Signal"

I must be quick.....

My screen goes black. My computer is still on...?

Only sometimes it reboots....?

Most times I am in the dark...?

Tower says green....?

[Dog_ger]

Sometimes I get a high pitch alarm....

Computer has shut down because CPU has overheated......

Service unit to fix this problem......

Builder denies this.......?

[Grahaml]

That's a little more complicated then. The green light on the tower just indicates the power is on, so just ignore that.

From what you've described the system is either overheating or just thinks it is (which is really fairly obvious). Basically there are a few things you might have going on. How long can you get the system to run before it does this, or does it do it before it can even boot into windows?

This all depends on whether you can get the system to funr for a couple of minutes, so if you just can't then ignore the rest of this paragraph. If you can, then try to get into the bios. The bios (also called the CMOS) is what contains the most basic settings of the computer. It's sort of an in built OS for the mainboard to detect devices and then boot to an OS. Unfortunately, if there's a major problem with the bios then we won't get far. To get into the bios, most mainboards require you to hit delete when prompted. This can flash by, especially if you don't know what the message may look like so I find it easiest to just keep hitting delete until the bios loads. You'll know when you're in the bios because it will look completely alien to you. Once in the bios, have a look for something calling itself "pc health status" or something like that. If you then go into that then you should see something reporting the temperature of the CPU, and the temperature at which the system will automatically shut down should that temperature be reached. I think this is what is happening, but it's a question (if I'm right) of whether the CPU is really getting there or not, or whether the alarm and shut down is just set too low. If you have a serious temperature issue, then you will notice the temperature going up by degrees just while it's sitting in the bios doing nothing until it reaches the temperature setting. If the system is happily sitting on the same temperature then we may have something else going on.

The next thing we can do is a bit more adventurous. This problem can be cause by a faulty temperature guage, incorrect CPU installation and just bad airflow. And I've seen all of them cause exactly what you've described. The easiest thing to do at this point is to take the side of the case off. You should see a large fan in the middle of the system. This is the CPU fan, and surprisingly, cools the CPU! This basically sits on top of the CPU, the big chunk of metal takes heat away from the CPU, and the fans blows it away. Fairly simple, but usually effective enough. Basically, the temperature of the reading in the bios is taken from the air just below the CPU, which should be pretty darn close to the CPU temperature as that air doesn't circulate, and the big chunk of metal should also be the same temperature. By simply touching the side of the metal heatsink as it's known, you should be able to tell whether you've got a CPU of 30-40 degrees or more like 70-80. If you're worried about burning yourself then just put your finger near it, and if you can't feel heat radiating from it it will be safe enough. Do be careful not to touch any of the rotating blades on the fan that sits on top of the heatsink. It won't hurt you, but one touch will rip a blade or two off and then you WILL have a heating issue!

The last thing I would personally look at is how easily the air can move in and out of the case. You really want cool air coming in and flowing to the CPU, and then warm air being pumped out somewhere. I like to put in a couple of fans and aim one in and one out to get a nice flow happening, but that's not really necessary. But if the inside of the case is really intidy with cables not tied back and moved out of the way then this can have a serious effect on the heating. Sometimes this problem can be solvved just by tidying up the cables!

Anyway, hope this is helpful. If you want clarification, or I've misunderstood or you try this and it doesn't work then I'm happy to offer whatever advise I can.

[Psyber]

I've been on the other side of the equation with those problems, Psyber. The problem for whoever you returned it to is they will get back a reconditioned (most likely) or new replacement of the same model. After 2 months, I suspect your board is being repaired by the manufacturer. The retailer will be getting this board, and if they swap you out for a new one they'll be stuck with a board they can't do anything with, hence they're highly reluctant to take that sort of hit when it's not actually anything they've done wrong.

Dogger, what is it doing this time? Have you tried running any anti-spyware or anti-virus programs?

PR, if you let me know exactly what it's doing I might be able to help. Whether you get any messages, or what the last thing you see before it goes cactus or whether you see nothing on the screen at all.

In this case my company is the retailer and we are usually dealing with a local OEM on behalf of our customer. It just happens that in this case we are also the end-user.

What you say is true for the OEM too, but as I pointed out to them, if I sell a customer a machine with a dud video card, and can't get it fixed quickly, my company takes responsibility and offers them a working card of equivalent type from a machine we own and use , and then uses the reconditioned card in one our office machines later if they don't want to swap it back when the repair is done. "All responsibilty goes back to the original source in Taiwan." doesn't wash with me. Issues like the original sale item being "fit for purpose" under our consumer affairs legislation arise when the item never works from the outset.

The wholesaler/OEM we are currently buying most through shares the same view and has twice replaced components with immediate "next step up" swap-overs when problems arose. They are likely to keep the bulk of our business even when the other crowd [A.....] eventually make good.

[Dog_ger]

Grahaml, I keep hitting delete but unfortunately nothing happens....? It loads into Windows XP....?

Have the latest anti-virus and spyware....

[Grahaml]

Unfortunately for you, Psyber, as the retailer you have to abide by consumer law, but the wholesaler you get it from doesn't.

We had a policy of trying to keep a certain amount of buffer stock to avoid this problem, but if we didn't have any and expected a long wait we would try to find a machine that we could scavenge from. We didn't always have something like that in a system though.

Dogger, is there a message that flashes on the screen (it will be just about the first thing that you see) that says something like "hit XXXX to enter setup"?

[Psyber]

Unfortunately for you, Psyber, as the retailer you have to abide by consumer law, but the wholesaler you get it from doesn't.
We had a policy of trying to keep a certain amount of buffer stock to avoid this problem, but if we didn't have any and expected a long wait we would try to find a machine that we could scavenge from. We didn't always have something like that in a system though.

Dogger, is there a message that flashes on the screen (it will be just about the first thing that you see) that says something like "hit XXXX to enter setup"?

Yes, fortunately we seem to have found a supplier or two who have a responsible spirit lately. I'm about to bail anyway, reselling is a minor side-line, and I have consultancy work lined up in the UK for a year or two - it will be a nice change - and a chance to see Europe. I may even stay permanently.

[Dog_ger]

Negative grahaml.....

[Psyber]

Negative grahaml.....

I just checked on my wife's computer when booting.

When the screen first lights up with white printing on black, right at the bottom of the screen you get "<Del> BIOS access <F8> Express Setup" buried in two lines of white text. It is only there for a few moments and you have to be quick to press <Del> at the right time.

There should be a message of some sort telling you which key it is - it is usually <Del> but not always, and you need to press it after that message but before the boot process rolls on, so you have to got through the boot twice - first to check what key it is and second to actually do it immediately after the message appears.

[Wedgie]

My old man rang me with computer problems the other day as his PC was booting up.

Turned out he'd somehow changed his BIOS settings so his PC booted from a disc and he had a porno in his disc drive!

[Grahaml]

Sometimes the boot sequence goes so fast now that the message can be gone before the monitor has powered up so often it's worth rebooting it once the monitor comes on by pressing the reset button. It sometimes is f8 from memory as well so perhaps try that. But Psyber is right, there sould be a message somewhere on virtually the first screen that comes up. I tend to jsut hit it as soon as I've hit the on button with new systems until something comes up because it can go very quickly these days

[Dog_ger]

Hi Guys and thankyou for listening to Dog_gers' problems......

Returned it to the Builder/Dealer once more yesterday 5pm....

Today 5pm dearly loved computer is sitting on my desk......

Old CPU replaced with new......

Cost $0.00

3 months out of warranty....

Thanks dealer/builder

It's been a hard week.....

A special thankyou to the woman that has the keys to my heart.....

Mrs_Dog_ger

For puting up with a grump without his computer xxx

[Grahaml]

Hope that fixes it once and for all then. Glad to assist where I can.

[Aerie]

That's a little more complicated then. The green light on the tower just indicates the power is on, so just ignore that.

From what you've described the system is either overheating or just thinks it is (which is really fairly obvious). Basically there are a few things you might have going on. How long can you get the system to run before it does this, or does it do it before it can even boot into windows?

This all depends on whether you can get the system to funr for a couple of minutes, so if you just can't then ignore the rest of this paragraph. If you can, then try to get into the bios. The bios (also called the CMOS) is what contains the most basic settings of the computer. It's sort of an in built OS for the mainboard to detect devices and then boot to an OS. Unfortunately, if there's a major problem with the bios then we won't get far. To get into the bios, most mainboards require you to hit delete when prompted. This can flash by, especially if you don't know what the message may look like so I find it easiest to just keep hitting delete until the bios loads. You'll know when you're in the bios because it will look completely alien to you. Once in the bios, have a look for something calling itself "pc health status" or something like that. If you then go into that then you should see something reporting the temperature of the CPU, and the temperature at which the system will automatically shut down should that temperature be reached. I think this is what is happening, but it's a question (if I'm right) of whether the CPU is really getting there or not, or whether the alarm and shut down is just set too low. If you have a serious temperature issue, then you will notice the temperature going up by degrees just while it's sitting in the bios doing nothing until it reaches the temperature setting. If the system is happily sitting on the same temperature then we may have something else going on.

The next thing we can do is a bit more adventurous. This problem can be cause by a faulty temperature guage, incorrect CPU installation and just bad airflow. And I've seen all of them cause exactly what you've described. The easiest thing to do at this point is to take the side of the case off. You should see a large fan in the middle of the system. This is the CPU fan, and surprisingly, cools the CPU! This basically sits on top of the CPU, the big chunk of metal takes heat away from the CPU, and the fans blows it away. Fairly simple, but usually effective enough. Basically, the temperature of the reading in the bios is taken from the air just below the CPU, which should be pretty darn close to the CPU temperature as that air doesn't circulate, and the big chunk of metal should also be the same temperature. By simply touching the side of the metal heatsink as it's known, you should be able to tell whether you've got a CPU of 30-40 degrees or more like 70-80. If you're worried about burning yourself then just put your finger near it, and if you can't feel heat radiating from it it will be safe enough. Do be careful not to touch any of the rotating blades on the fan that sits on top of the heatsink. It won't hurt you, but one touch will rip a blade or two off and then you WILL have a heating issue!

The last thing I would personally look at is how easily the air can move in and out of the case. You really want cool air coming in and flowing to the CPU, and then warm air being pumped out somewhere. I like to put in a couple of fans and aim one in and one out to get a nice flow happening, but that's not really necessary. But if the inside of the case is really intidy with cables not tied back and moved out of the way then this can have a serious effect on the heating. Sometimes this problem can be solvved just by tidying up the cables!

Anyway, hope this is helpful. If you want clarification, or I've misunderstood or you try this and it doesn't work then I'm happy to offer whatever advise I can.

Thanks for writing this grahaml. This explains a problem I've been having since I got my computer. I did take it in to get some fans installed, but they didn't end up doing it so I never bothered going back. I just leave the case open on one side and clean out the dust from the fan every now and then. Sometimes if it's a hot day I need to have a normal fan blowing air into the open part of the unit to keep it from freezing because of the hot temperature (that didn't sound right...). Rarely have problems with it now.

The main annoyance I have is I randomly get a "Generic Host Process 32" thing pop up on my screen. If I press debug I can still use my computer but the network doesn't work. If I press anything else I can't use my computer and have to restart. Any ideas how to get rid of this problem?

[Grahaml]

If taking the side of the case off helps, then heating will definitely be an issue. However, there may be other things going on as well. Ideally I have 2 case fans in a system, have one blowing air in, and the other blowing air out. What you want to do there is work it out so the air goes in through the input, then goes over the CPU, then flows towards the outtake fan. When it's set up right it should be noticeable how the air in is cool, and the air out is warm. I'd also consider tucking any cables away that are loose, and if you can get some cable ties and tie everything up and then tie them to bits of the case to get them as far out of the way as you can. What you want to do it create the largest open space around the CPU, video card and main board chip (usually the one with the heatsink on it) , and then the air flow will keep the CPU and other major chips as cool as possible.

It does sound like you have another issue as well though, so while doing this might improve things I doubt it will completely fix them. It also doesn't sound like a typical spyware/virus problem although I do recommend running both to see if you've picked up anything if you haven't already done so. The best solution might be a reinstallation of windows "over the top". This won't remove and files and programs but will basically reinstall the basic windows files. To do this, get your windows disk and boot from it, then when it asks to repair the first time select continue. It will scan for previous installations of windows, and should then find your windows install. It should then give you the option of repairing this install, which is what you would want to do. If it doesn't find your windows install then just get out of the program because it won't do what you want (although that would indicate a more serious problem). This might not fix the problem but should be fairly safe to do. I say should because you never can be certain, but to put it in perspective I would have done this 100s of times without a problem.

I will readily admit that software issues aren't my strong point though, although I do beleive I know the problem you're talking about (in fact I think it's the same one I have, but I don't have the windows disk because it's the in-laws computer and they lost their disk and I haven't got around to getting my hands on one!) and I would be a little surprised if installing over the top failed to fix this.

[Wedgie]

You've got a lot more patience than I have GrahamL, well done.

[Grahaml]

I spent 4 1/2 years doing this sort of thing, and it's a heck of a lot easier to do for people who are appreciative, and after dealing with retailers who only think they know what they're doing I actually like helping people who understand where their level of technical know-how is at.

[Dog_ger]

Thanks Grahaml.....

[Psyber]

Interesting addendum: one of the computers at my office had slowed down dramatically. It had been defragged recently and improved a little. I ran Registry Mechanic, found 28 errors, let it repair them after having backed everything up, and it is running much faster now.