SA Footy

First off, let me start by saying that I have the utmost respect for all the men and women who put their lives on the line so we can enjoy the freedoms that we often take for granted today. The sacrifices these men and women went through should always be remembered and respected when you discuss such sensitive issues as the ANZAC march.

However, I have to say that the Vets who are opposed to descendants marching in place of deceased vets because they are 'poorly attired' or that they decrease the solemnity of the occasion are being more than a little short sighted. With veterans of WWII approaching their 90's, if descendants are not allowed to march in place of the vets, then fairly soon no one will be marching at all and I believe that ANZAC day should always 'Lest we forget' rather than just Essendon v Collingwood.

No chaps, let the kiddies march. The younger generation learns respect from such an event and respect is being ignored all too often in the upbringing of recent generations.

regards,

REB

Perhaps seperate sections in the march Rik-E,where the Vets can march along side one and other.The descendants can follow,still in order of the brigade their ancestors were part of.

Agreed REB but I also see agree with the point of those who think the kids dress inappropiately. You wont see a digger wearing jeans, so neither should we see the next of kin doing so....

It is an interesting dilemma that as the years go by the number of diggers decrease, but the number of their descendants increases exponentially.

Assuming we don't have any major wars and no major changes to immigration patterns, it is feasible that in 50 years time there will be no living diggers, but possibly up to 25% of the population (I am guessing a bit there) would have at least one digger as an ancestor. And this could increase to over 50% in 100 years time.

So what do you do then? Allow everyone to march?

I brought this up with a mate of mine (he's in his late 40's), as he said he looks forward to marching each year. After doing my maths, I asked which war he fought in. He replied "none". I sledged him good naturedly, but another time when it got brought up, he got funny about it. He takes it pretty seriously, fair enough, but despite my ribbing him, my point was- why are you marching if you didn't go? It should be reserved for the blokes that went, but at the same time, their numbers are dwindilling through natural attrition. I don't know what the answer is, but perhaps 1 descendant for 1 digger, provided they either wear the original uniform, or (to show sincerity) get one made to fit, & wear the medals as well. Perhaps they could have a coloured ribbon on their hat, to show they are marching in someone's place (even though it may be pretty obvious if they're young )

Falcon Chick wrote:Agreed REB but I also see agree with the point of those who think the kids dress inappropiately. You wont see a digger wearing jeans, so neither should we see the next of kin doing so....

I can see your point chicky, and I could also see the point of suggesting that next of kin can wear jeans (or suits, or skirts, or whatever they freely choose) as a result of the sacrifices these great men and women made for us all ... I'm not certain either way, but I do tend to lean toward family members being able to represent those relatives who made their sacrifice of the highest order ...

Constance_Perm wrote:

Falcon Chick wrote:Agreed REB but I also see agree with the point of those who think the kids dress inappropiately. You wont see a digger wearing jeans, so neither should we see the next of kin doing so....

I can see your point chicky, and I could also see the point of suggesting that next of kin can wear jeans (or suits, or skirts, or whatever they freely choose) as a result of the sacrifices these great men and women made for us all ... I'm not certain either way, but I do tend to lean toward family members being able to represent those relatives who made their sacrifice of the highest order ...

I thought ANZAC day was about freedom. Since when is wearing jeans a sign of no respect? I think that any person who makes the time and effort to march even for an ancestor or relative should be allowed to do so. What is considered inappropriate dress is largely a matter of taste.

I think that they should, I respect what they did. When they play the 'Last Post' at the footy at Adelaide Oval, I stand still, take my hat off as a mark of respect. It would be nice if they say didn't wear crapy AFL gear and so forth but something that looks good.

Exactly the point I was trying to put forth Mick

I feel clean neat and tidy clothing should be worn. Jeans and shirts yes as long as their are no rips in the clothing and good footwear it is about respect and people should dress better than what some people dress.

Punk Rooster wrote:... at the same time, their numbers are dwindilling through natural attrition. I don't know what the answer is,

Start a few more wars, perhaps?

FWIW, I reakon let the descendants march provided they wear their ancestor's medals. I believe the protocol is that genuine diggers wear the medals on the left, descendants wear them on the other side.

I like to pay respect to the diggers, not their descendants. I'm sorry if that offends people. My opinion only but it's getting worse every year and as someone said, it's going to be all descendants soon. The march should go then.

Have the dawn service and all of those things we've come to symbolise Anzac Day with, standing up at the footy with our hats off, feeling the solemnity of the occasion, some of us getting misty eyed, but I won't watch a bunch of descendants march.

As that same person said, those of us who are born either here or across in the Shakey Isles (ANZAC), have a relative that fought and died in a war (not necessarily the Great War), let alone those from other parts of the world. Does that mean you want to see the little MagicKiwi marching on the day? I don't think so....

MagicKiwi wrote:I like to pay respect to the diggers, not their descendants. I'm sorry if that offends people. My opinion only but it's getting worse every year and as someone said, it's going to be all descendants soon. The march should go then.

Have the dawn service and all of those things we've come to symbolise Anzac Day with, standing up at the footy with our hats off, feeling the solemnity of the occasion, some of us getting misty eyed, but I won't watch a bunch of descendants march.

As that same person said, those of us who are born either here or across in the Shakey Isles (ANZAC), have a relative that fought and died in a war (not necessarily the Great War), let alone those from other parts of the world. Does that mean you want to see the little MagicKiwi marching on the day? I don't think so....

As much as I tend to agree with you MK - it's not done just for the crowd. It's not a "show". A decendant walking in place of a late relative is done out of THEIR respect for their relative.

During the march, I will respect the diggers who march, and acknowledge the respect the relatives who walk have.

To me, it's not a time for determining who should and shouldn't be there.

Can honestly say that nobody in my family has ever fought in a war for Australia or marched on ANZAC Day (my mob has been busy fighting a war of a different kind).

But that still doesn't stop me feeling immense pride on our true National Day of celebration.

Can see where both sides are coming from and I've gotta say it will be an odd march in the not-too-distant future when all the WWI/II Diggers are gone and only their descendents are left.

Having said that, I can't imagine ANZAC Day without the traditional march.

On the news this morning they were saying that here in Melbourne they are going to let descendants of Turkish veterans march! This is due to the "special" relationship we have with the Turkish Government over Gallipoli (EG: they put up with drunken yobbos turning up there and destroying the place). No word on other countries at this stage.
Both my grandfathers served (one at Gallipoli and then France and the other in New Guinea) and were members of the RSL but neither of them ever felt inclined to march. So I won't march in their place as they obviously didn't want to (for whatever reason).

Pseudo wrote:

Punk Rooster wrote:... at the same time, their numbers are dwindilling through natural attrition. I don't know what the answer is,

Start a few more wars, perhaps?

We still have all the current members of the defence force who are deployed overseas on Warlike service, who will march every year.

mick wrote:
I thought ANZAC day was about freedom. Since when is wearing jeans a sign of no respect? I think that any person who makes the time and effort to march even for an ancestor or relative should be allowed to do so. What is considered inappropriate dress is largely a matter of taste.

I couldn't agree more.

I have the same opinion as Magic Kiwi. The March should be for those that fought and earnt us our freedoms.
Anzac day is to commemorate the sacrifices made so that we can be free. Letting the descendants march is the beginning of a change, if we allow it to continue then in a few decades the meaning of the march and how it is commemorated will begin to morph further in to something else. This is much the same with just about all traditions, how little do today's Christmas and Easter (just as an example) resemble the original religious festivals that spawned them? Not saying that change in itself is a bad thing, but I think that the values and sense of duty that we pay respect top on Anzac Day is cheapened by allowing a multitude of descendants to march. That is just how I feel on that score, and I could be wrong, but those that can't be bothered dressing in an appropriate fashion are definitely dragging the meaning of the march (as I take it to mean, respect of the sacrifice made for us) toward something else.

No descendants no march. Lest we forget.

regards,

REB