Is this going to far in todays society??

[once_were_warriors]

Not accusing anyone of being racist , just don't understand people getting upset over the changing of the colour of a sheep in a nursery rhyme.

My purely personal response to the do-gooders:

1, It is a traditional rhyme and the supposed "bad" meaning is moot - so leave it alone.
2. It is petty to worry about such minor things, but fair to retaliate to your pettiness when it affect others.
3. Don't try to impose your silly prejudices on me.

What's next? Change Aesop's fables, rewrite the Grimm fairy tales, and sanitise The Canterbury Tales.
[They've already done in Enid Blyton and Biggles.]

Look I understand that for a man that I estimate would have to be 500 years old, that you probably somewhere assisted in the writing,editing and publishing of these fine fables and tales from their first edition and subsequent releases and would naturally be upset and concerned.

But you sound like a bloke that would get upset if his tea bags had 12 less tea leaves per bag compared to the ones that you imported from Ceylon in 1896 , of course on a ship that you had privately chartered.

[Magpiespower]

There's also some idiot publisher in Alabama who has censored Mark Twain...

[Lightning McQueen]

Does anyone know if Brisbane midfielder Simon Rainbow is going around again this season?

[Psyber]

Look I understand that for a man that I estimate would have to be 500 years old, that you probably somewhere assisted in the writing,editing and publishing of these fine fables and tales from their first edition and subsequent releases and would naturally be upset and concerned.
But you sound like a bloke that would get upset if his tea bags had 12 less tea leaves per bag compared to the ones that you imported from Ceylon in 1896 , of course on a ship that you had privately chartered.

No, I don't worry about tea bags, but I don't like people destroying history and literature, for silly and trivial reasons, by rewriting it for current fashion.

If you were right about my age I'd have been around for the Grimm's Fairy Tales but I'd have to be older for Chaucer, first published in the late 14th century.
I'd be really old for Aesop's tales, which date, in theory, from 620 to 560BC but were first published in Greek about 200 years later.
They appeared in English in the early 15th century.

Although I'm not actually that old I do have (and can read) an edition of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales written in Middle English.
[It is a reproduction of the first edition - not a fabulously expensive original.]

[fish]

I used to be in the native plant business and there were a few plant common names that we were unsure whether to use, including "running postman" and "black boy".

I asked my Uni lecturer, who was a plant expert and also a feminist and I expected her to say that we should change the names. However her advice was to continue using those names - they preserved the historical mindset that was prevalent in days gone by, and they allowed us to reflect on the past and appreciate the present (or words to that effect).

[Psyber]

I used to be in the native plant business and there were a few plant common names that we were unsure whether to use, including "running postman" and "black boy".

I asked my Uni lecturer, who was a plant expert and also a feminist and I expected her to say that we should change the names. However her advice was to continue using those names - they preserved the historical mindset that was prevalent in days gone by, and they allowed us to reflect on the past and appreciate the present (or words to that effect).

Yes, that's a big point - by preserving the history it is there for us to learn from.
If we rewrite it we can pretend it never happened.

[Johno6]

yeah at my work place there are items called IO's (Inspection Openings)
but they used to be called black boys..... we still get the occasional person asking for them as black boys

[mick]

My brother was a lawyer for the Commonwealth government, he sent an e-mail to a colleague about a matter concerning a Mr Black. He and the colleague received a computer generated warnings to stop sending rascist e-mails....sad but true story

[Magpiespower]

I don't like people destroying history and literature, for silly and trivial reasons, by rewriting it for current fashion.

Absolutely.

The integrity of the work should be protected against social mores of the day.

It should also be protected against the misreadings and misinterpretations of the reader...

[Psyber]

In the meantime, will the US "Black Power" movement become "Rainbow Power"?
And will that cause confusion??

Oh, and did anyone see the movie "Black Sheep" - set in NZ - that was on TV last night?
It was billed as a horror movie - I recorded it but haven't watched it yet.

[mighty_tiger_79]

In the meantime, will the US "Black Power" movement become "Rainbow Power"?
And will that cause confusion??

Oh, and did anyone see the movie "Black Sheep" - set in NZ - that was on TV last night?
It was billed as a horror movie - I recorded it but haven't watched it yet.

yes ive seen the movie a few years ago now

one of the best movies of all time for its genre

[Barto]

Its not that they changed it, its the fact that they thought there was a need to change it. Its the symbolism of how things are in this day and age, rather than the change itself.

That cracks me up when people say "this day and age".

Things change. Golliwogs were pulled out of the toy boxes around 40 years ago, I bet people screamed about how things are changing for the worse and how there's nothing racist about the toys. Do kids today care that they cant play with something that was around 50+ years ago? Do adults even care?

I doubt anyone is going to give a crap in the year 2051 that the nursery rhyme is different than it was a few decades previously.

While people are wringing their hands about "political correctness gone mad", there are things in the world absolutely worth being outraged about:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/world ... ml?_r=2&hp

[fish]

Agreed that puts things in perspective Barto, but it doesn't mean we cannot have an opinion about the less important happenings around us.

[gadj1976]

Its not that they changed it, its the fact that they thought there was a need to change it. Its the symbolism of how things are in this day and age, rather than the change itself.

That cracks me up when people say "this day and age".

Things change. Golliwogs were pulled out of the toy boxes around 40 years ago, I bet people screamed about how things are changing for the worse and how there's nothing racist about the toys. Do kids today care that they cant play with something that was around 50+ years ago? Do adults even care?

I doubt anyone is going to give a crap in the year 2051 that the nursery rhyme is different than it was a few decades previously.

While people are wringing their hands about "political correctness gone mad", there are things in the world absolutely worth being outraged about:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/world ... ml?_r=2&hp

Barto, to an extent that's a cop out. "Do kids care if they can't play with something from 50+ years ago"... what sort of comment is that? Of course they don't because they don't know, but then do they have a choice? Isn't that what being a kid is all about? I loved being able to play with toys that my grandparents played with in their childhood and they'll be heirlooms for my kids as well.

But what you're effectively saying is that if someone (lobby group) says its not right because it might hurt/annoy (insert minority group), then we should all comply. Why?

I can understand change where there is a benefit, but if you don't question change when it has no logical benefit, then you're complying for the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong, I can completely see why rules are changed to protect minority groups but this is clearly absolute rubbish. Who's it protecting - black sheep?

Yep, we've lost Golliwog. We've lost Raggedy Ann and Andy, but for what good?

I for one am happy to 'buck' the establishment when they say I can't say "baa baa black sheep" to my kids. I mean, the sheep IS black isn't it? What next, Easter Bunny isn't actually a bunny, its a chook??? (worse still, my nieces teacher told them that their parents were lying to them about Santa - what would happen if I lobby group decided that it was mentally tormenting kids to lie to them?)

I heard recently that the song "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" removed "gay" from the lyrics. Why? Aren't songs/movies/TV Shows a snap shot of society at the time? If my kids ask me what "gay" meant in relation to that song I'd tell them. If they ask me what "gay" refers to now, I'd also tell them. I really don't understand why that's offensive.

My 2c.....

[Barto]

I don't think anyone is kicking your door in to make sure you're singing the 'correct' lyrics to your own kids.

Things change. Kids should be wearing duffel coats to the footy with their favourite players name sewn on the back, their lives must be so empty without something we had when we were young.

Let me know when we're getting the pitchforks and burning torches out, I'm bored and need something to do. Lousy minorities.

[gadj1976]

I don't think anyone is kicking your door in to make sure you're singing the 'correct' lyrics to your own kids.

Things change. Kids should be wearing duffel coats to the footy with their favourite players name sewn on the back, their lives must be so empty without something we had when we were young.

Let me know when we're getting the pitchforks and burning torches out, I'm bored and need something to do. Lousy minorities.

Barto, you've got me wrong - I have no problem with change for the better. This isn't.

I don't really know how you can equate fashion with changing 'black' to 'rainbow' but oh well.

So back to my point, what benefit does changing 'black' to 'rainbow' actually have?

[Bully]

none

[Mr Beefy]

I don't think anyone is kicking your door in to make sure you're singing the 'correct' lyrics to your own kids.

Things change. Kids should be wearing duffel coats to the footy with their favourite players name sewn on the back, their lives must be so empty without something we had when we were young.

Let me know when we're getting the pitchforks and burning torches out, I'm bored and need something to do. Lousy minorities.

Barto, you've got me wrong - I have no problem with change for the better. This isn't.

I don't really know how you can equate fashion with changing 'black' to 'rainbow' but oh well.

So back to my point, what benefit does changing 'black' to 'rainbow' actually have?

It's easy, in fashion, Brown is the new Rainbow

[Lightning McQueen]

I don't think anyone is kicking your door in to make sure you're singing the 'correct' lyrics to your own kids.

Things change. Kids should be wearing duffel coats to the footy with their favourite players name sewn on the back, their lives must be so empty without something we had when we were young.

Let me know when we're getting the pitchforks and burning torches out, I'm bored and need something to do. Lousy minorities.

Barto, you've got me wrong - I have no problem with change for the better. This isn't.

I don't really know how you can equate fashion with changing 'black' to 'rainbow' but oh well.

So back to my point, what benefit does changing 'black' to 'rainbow' actually have?

an extra syllable.

[Barto]

an extra syllable.

For sure, and that's why it's actually stupid idea. I can see why the change, but there's better options than "rainbow".

It's still not really worth stressing over.

Sometimes the cynic in me see these things that are attributed to "do-gooders" and "left wing loonies" are actually from the other side of the political spectrum as a false flag operation to divert attention from things that we really should be upset about.