Evolution V Religion

[Il Duce]

Look I believe in God, I'm Catholic and there really is one simple answer to all this and its you either have faith or you dont.

If you dont have faith no amount of convincing you is going to make you change your mind and if you do have faith you shouldn't need convincing because your faith should be enough.

Also there is a nothing saying you cant believe in evolution and religion at the same time, in the bible it says that God created heaven and earth in 7 days. But there is nothing to say that a day is the same length of time that we consider a day, it could mean 7 God days so its down to what you want to believe in.

[Gingernuts]

secondly i'm not ramming my beliefs down anyone's throat, i am sorry if it feels that way to anyone...
i just like to be a little controversial...

That wasn't a reference to you sorry nugget, I reckon you're doing a good job of answering peoples questions! Good on ya for punching on, but I don't think your going to turn around too many of these blokes.

I think the Bible frowns upon a bloke turning around other blokes mate

[Hondo]

from a humanistic perspective this is always going to sound wrong and an injustice. however from my perspective;

who's definition of 'good and kind life' are you using? a good life to God is similar yes to the worlds view of a good life but there are some rules. just like we have road rules and laws and authority here on Earth, God has His own standards that we must meet in order to live a 'good life' to Him.

Salvation is for all people, the bible says 'Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new' 2 Corinthians 5:17

we are forgiven by God of all the sin we have committed, we are new creations in Him when we accept the gift of salvation. the forgiveness comes by the shedding of blood, hence Jesus dieing on the cross

I just don't like feeling that I have to obey certain rules or say certain things to be "accepted" into heaven

Maybe I am naive and will burn for eternity however my belief is that, if god does exist, he will understand that I maintained a healthy scepticism in an effort to find my own truth but he wouldn't hold that against me when the time comes.

I believe that if a deity exists, he exists above the "rules" that religous organisations on Earth of any kind put around it. So I like to think I have more faith in him than those that claim to have faith. I am trusting that he will know I wasn't a an axe murderer and can hang out up there with everyone else. Christians would say I am a fool.

I believe I would be described as agnostic.

[nuggety goodness]

secondly i'm not ramming my beliefs down anyone's throat, i am sorry if it feels that way to anyone...
i just like to be a little controversial...

That wasn't a reference to you sorry nugget, I reckon you're doing a good job of answering peoples questions! Good on ya for punching on, but I don't think your going to turn around too many of these blokes.

probably not, but you know it's not about me turning these blokes around. i just hope that by planting the seed God can do something. you never know my friend. i used to argue about it too but under the facade had no idea what i really believed, i just thought Christians were looneys and church was for losers. but things changed...

[silicone skyline]

Look I believe in God, I'm Catholic and there really is one simple answer to all this and its you either have faith or you dont.

If you dont have faith no amount of convincing you is going to make you change your mind and if you do have faith you shouldn't need convincing because your faith should be enough.

Also there is a nothing saying you cant believe in evolution and religion at the same time, in the bible it says that God created heaven and earth in 7 days. But there is nothing to say that a day is the same length of time that we consider a day, it could mean 7 God days so its down to what you want to believe in.

Exactly, the measurement of days does not necessarily refer to 24 hours. One day could be "x" amount of years.

[Il Duce]

yep that why I believe in both, I believe that God cause evolution to happen.

[Pseudo]

I just noticed that today is the 150th anniversary of the publication of The Origin Of Species, being the feature article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[Bum Crack]

Look I believe in God, I'm Catholic and there really is one simple answer to all this and its you either have faith or you dont.

If you dont have faith no amount of convincing you is going to make you change your mind and if you do have faith you shouldn't need convincing because your faith should be enough.

Also there is a nothing saying you cant believe in evolution and religion at the same time, in the bible it says that God created heaven and earth in 7 days. But there is nothing to say that a day is the same length of time that we consider a day, it could mean 7 God days so its down to what you want to believe in.

Exactly, the measurement of days does not necessarily refer to 24 hours. One day could be "x" amount of years.

Do you think you will go to heaven SS?? If you do, I reckon I have a good chance too, because if you're allowed to tell us all about the wristy's you get every morning and God doesn't mind hearing that, I am pretty safe too I reckon.

[nuggety goodness]

from a humanistic perspective this is always going to sound wrong and an injustice. however from my perspective;

who's definition of 'good and kind life' are you using? a good life to God is similar yes to the worlds view of a good life but there are some rules. just like we have road rules and laws and authority here on Earth, God has His own standards that we must meet in order to live a 'good life' to Him.

Salvation is for all people, the bible says 'Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new' 2 Corinthians 5:17

we are forgiven by God of all the sin we have committed, we are new creations in Him when we accept the gift of salvation. the forgiveness comes by the shedding of blood, hence Jesus dieing on the cross

I just don't like feeling that I have to obey certain rules or say certain things to be "accepted" into heaven

Maybe I am naive and will burn for eternity however my belief is that, if god does exist, he will understand that I maintained a healthy scepticism in an effort to find my own truth but he wouldn't hold that against me when the time comes.

I believe that if a deity exists, he exists above the "rules" that religous organisations on Earth of any kind put around it. So I like to think I have more faith in him than those that claim to have faith. I am trusting that he will know I wasn't a an axe murderer and can hang out up there with everyone else. Christians would say I am a fool.

I believe I would be described as agnostic.

i understand what you're saying. however to me that is adjusting God to your way of thinking.

it's not about abiding by the churches rules and us being accepted into heaven (see Ephesians 2:1-10), it's about us accepting God's gift, He wants to save us from the world that we have created and heaven is the destination He takes us to. i hope for your sake He is very gracious however in His Word, He says differently...

[Gingernuts]

I just noticed that today is the 150th anniversary of the publication of The Origin Of Species, being the feature article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Maybe this thread is a sign from God!

[nuggety goodness]

Look I believe in God, I'm Catholic and there really is one simple answer to all this and its you either have faith or you dont.

If you dont have faith no amount of convincing you is going to make you change your mind and if you do have faith you shouldn't need convincing because your faith should be enough.

Also there is a nothing saying you cant believe in evolution and religion at the same time, in the bible it says that God created heaven and earth in 7 days. But there is nothing to say that a day is the same length of time that we consider a day, it could mean 7 God days so its down to what you want to believe in.

Exactly, the measurement of days does not necessarily refer to 24 hours. One day could be "x" amount of years.

'...with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day' 2 Peter 3:8

[Pseudo]

probably not, but you know it's not about me turning these blokes around. i just hope that by planting the seed God can do something.

Just make sure you plant your seed firmly, for if thou lets thy seed spill on the ground, thou shalt be smote by the LORD (Genesis 38:9-10)

[silicone skyline]

probably not, but you know it's not about me turning these blokes around. i just hope that by planting the seed God can do something.

Just make sure you plant your seed firmly, for if thou lets thy seed spill on the ground, thou shalt be smote by the LORD (Genesis 38:9-10)

LOL

[nuggety goodness]

probably not, but you know it's not about me turning these blokes around. i just hope that by planting the seed God can do something.

Just make sure you plant your seed firmly, for if thou lets thy seed spill on the ground, thou shalt be smote by the LORD (Genesis 38:9-10)

LOL

you know what it's talkin about obviously... i ain't plantin none of that seed in any of you mob!

[Booney]

probably not, but you know it's not about me turning these blokes around. i just hope that by planting the seed God can do something.

Just make sure you plant your seed firmly, for if thou lets thy seed spill on the ground, thou shalt be smote by the LORD (Genesis 38:9-10)

Oh I do kind Sir, I sure do....as firmly as possible at times.

[silicone skyline]

probably not, but you know it's not about me turning these blokes around. i just hope that by planting the seed God can do something.

Just make sure you plant your seed firmly, for if thou lets thy seed spill on the ground, thou shalt be smote by the LORD (Genesis 38:9-10)

Oh I do kind Sir, I sure do....as firmly as possible at times.

Ha!

[nuggety goodness]

so are you going to Heaven? if so why/why not?

i am because i have had my sinned washed away and a right relationship with God, it has nothing to do with what i have done but what He did for me.

[silicone skyline]

I'm not for too many reasons.

[Rik E Boy]

Well, against better judgement I'm going to post my views on this subject!

Gees, some subject matter to get through though!

My personal view is that evolution & my personal beliefs (Christian) co-exist, they don't oppose each other at all. I don't subscribe to the fact that God created the world in 7 days literally, I just think that he described it that way so we could get our puny little human minds around the concept of our existence being whipped up from scratch.

As far as other suggestions of a lack of a god I would say this - REB & Booney you suggest that there is too much pain and suffering in the world for their to be a god, because that stuff would not happen.

I feel the opposite, I see the world and I see too many things that are amazing, compex, and intricate - and I just cannot believe that it all came together because of some freak explosion. I also can't believe that my only purpose for being here is to breed and die, life for me isn't worth living if their isn't a higher purpose to it. As far as I'm concerned God created the world and he put me on it to make it a better place. And if I do a reasonable job at it, then when I finally shuffle off this mortal earth he'll be waiting at an open bar in the clouds somewhere with all the people I have loved and lost, ready to share an icey cold schooey and a chat.

But that's just me. I was born and raised in a Christian household and so have never known anything different. My beliefs don't make me a better person than anyone else here, and I don't think God wants me to ram them down anyone's throats either. If someone is fair dinkum about wanting to know more I'm happy to chat, otherwise people are welcome to believe in what they like.

Great post Gingernuts. We have been friends for many years despite having different beliefs. We didn't waste precious 'studying' (Magil KAF LOL) time discussing higher beings. I believe that we are here to breed and die but the higher purpose you speak of for me is being someone that your children can look up to and that you remain someone you can look in the eye when you have a shave....and that you learn from your past mistakes. I believe I can say all of those things so why should I go to Hell?

I believe that Religon should be a unifying force of love and understanding but instead man, acting in the name of religon has turned it into something that has caused untold misery. It should benefit us all in our lives, but it doesn't. My religon is my family and I wasn't bought up in a religous household at all - Just ask my old man how much fun it was growing up Catholic in London or spending time in a Catholic orphanage. I was brought up almost fanatically anti-religous. And while I'll never don the cross I've matured enough to see that it can provide a benefit for those that have the faith, especially in trying times.

regards,

REB

[nuggety goodness]

I'm not for too many reasons.

so how do you get there?