New Rudd Stimulus Package

[The Big Shrek]

Very funny effort by a Liberal MP comparing the package to a "young man with a fistful of cash in a brothel thinking it will buy him some affection for a while."

[FlyingHigh]

I know that people in the Riverland are struggling. I just believe recycling stormwater and finding innovative ways to use water more efficiently should be our first priority. We've shagged our environment down here, and now we want to do it to places up North at huge expense?

[Lightning McQueen]

Pumping water from North - South, would be a great idea, considering Darwin have a Dam they could start using again. They should've done it at the same time as they put the train line in.......

Richard Pratt offered to subsidise it a few years back.

[Dutchy]

I know that people in the Riverland are struggling. I just believe recycling stormwater and finding innovative ways to use water more efficiently should be our first priority. We've shagged our environment down here, and now we want to do it to places up North at huge expense?

agree with the stormwater, we let it run out to sea and then put in a desalination plant to bring it back!

Up north they have too much water, this time of year Darwin has more rain in one afternoon than we have all summer

[am Bays]

A $950 once-off bonus to students and other income support recipients to assist with education costs.

Is this for people receiving austudy etc or any kid aged 5 + going to school ?

Abstudy, Austudy, youth allowance basically getting any money from the govt to educate yourself. So school kids nup unless they indicidually get money to go to school. So your average 5 -15 yo won't get it. Just spoke to an electoral officer who works for a govt member...

Their parents should get it if they receive family tax benefit A.

thats a different $950.

$950 for each child in school if you recieve FTBA and
$950 once-off bonus to students and other income support recipients to assist with education costs

[Dirko]

Pumping water from North - South, would be a great idea, considering Darwin have a Dam they could start using again. They should've done it at the same time as they put the train line in.......

Richard Pratt offered to subsidise it a few years back.

Yeah though I could recall Pratty offering something along those lines (the water would end up at Prices Park to water the oval)

[Brock Landers]

Pumping water from North - South, would be a great idea, considering Darwin have a Dam they could start using again. They should've done it at the same time as they put the train line in.......

Richard Pratt offered to subsidise it a few years back.

Yeah though I could recall Pratty offering something along those lines (the water would end up at Prices Park to water the oval)

Has this idea been seriously looked at (costed etc) or is it a pipe dream? Pun not intended!

The govt would want to be careful not to stuff up the natural waterflow up north as well as feed our dependance on other sources of water.

[FlyingHigh]

I know that people in the Riverland are struggling. I just believe recycling stormwater and finding innovative ways to use water more efficiently should be our first priority. We've shagged our environment down here, and now we want to do it to places up North at huge expense?

agree with the stormwater, we let it run out to sea and then put in a desalination plant to bring it back!

Up north they have too much water, this time of year Darwin has more rain in one afternoon than we have all summer

If it was collected from suburban Darwin, then fair enough, that would be simiar to collecting Adelaide's stormwater. But I'm not in favour of collecting it from the Ord or elsewhere- to me that is allowing us to continue our ignorant, wasteful ways and not learning for ourselves.
Not knowing Darwin's infrastructure, I suppose they have collection/storage methods to cater for their dry season, which are more severe than ours?

LM - apologies for the original eye-rolling. It was more getting sick of the whole argument in than anyones comments on here.

[Lightning McQueen]

If it was collected from suburban Darwin, then fair enough, that would be simiar to collecting Adelaide's stormwater. But I'm not in favour of collecting it from the Ord or elsewhere- to me that is allowing us to continue our ignorant, wasteful ways and not learning for ourselves.
Not knowing Darwin's infrastructure, I suppose they have collection/storage methods to cater for their dry season, which are more severe than ours?

LM - apologies for the original eye-rolling. It was more getting sick of the whole argument in than anyones comments on here.

No harm done, it does seem silly to let water out into the ocean then retrieve it to desalitize it. With the floods that Qld cops and the torrential rain in Darwin, Katherine and surrounding areas, it seems such a waste while the southern states have heavy water restrictions, I'm led to believe there is huge quantities of untapped underground water in NT, I'm pretty sure that was what Pratty was targetting for memory.

[Dirko]

Not knowing Darwin's infrastructure, I suppose they have collection/storage methods to cater for their dry season, which are more severe than ours?

They have a couple of Dams. The Darwin River Dam is the one they use....Generally it sits at about 42 metres

They have another dam up there they stopped using a few years ago as there wasn't a need.

Also due to the topical rains and make up of the earth up there, most rural places get the water from the ground, which includes Alice Springs.

Most of the water used in Alice Springs comes from the Mereenie Formation an aquifer lying about 14 -18 km south of the township. It is one of three underground rock formations from which they draw drinking water, the other two are the Pacoota and Shannon formations. The Mereenie aquifer provides about 70% of the town’s water supply from a storage of about 5,200,000 ML which is about the same size as 5 million Olympic sized swimming pools or 10 Sydney Harbours.

WOW ! Plenty of water up North !!

[Leaping Lindner]

I think at the moment Richard Pratt may have other things on his mind.

[FlyingHigh]

Not knowing Darwin's infrastructure, I suppose they have collection/storage methods to cater for their dry season, which are more severe than ours?

They have a couple of Dams. The Darwin River Dam is the one they use....Generally it sits at about 42 metres

They have another dam up there they stopped using a few years ago as there wasn't a need.

Also due to the topical rains and make up of the earth up there, most rural places get the water from the ground, which includes Alice Springs.

Most of the water used in Alice Springs comes from the Mereenie Formation an aquifer lying about 14 -18 km south of the township. It is one of three underground rock formations from which they draw drinking water, the other two are the Pacoota and Shannon formations. The Mereenie aquifer provides about 70% of the town’s water supply from a storage of about 5,200,000 ML which is about the same size as 5 million Olympic sized swimming pools or 10 Sydney Harbours.

WOW ! Plenty of water up North !!

These sort of numbers give a pretty compelling argument to put in the pipeline.
Couple of other thoughts:
- The huge underwater areas around Pinnaroo never seem to get mentioned. I believe there is something like 300 years of potential irrigation for that area. Surely it giving River Murray farmers at least some access to this would be a better alternative putting in thousands of km's of pipeline to Adelaide.
- Coming up with technologoically-advanced stormwater solutions, innovative water efficiency and knowledge could potentially be a lucrative export to parts of the world with similar problems.

[MW]

$950 worth of Tooheys New Cans coming up

So you are quite literally going to piss it up against the wall

[Psyber]

$950 worth of Tooheys New Cans coming up

So you are quite literally going to piss it up against the wall

That may be one of the reasons the federal opposition are questioning it all.

Mr Turnbull did not rule out supporting further stimulus packages, saying it depended on their composition and the economic circumstances.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/529 ... work-rudd/

[The Ash Man]

Pumping water from North - South, would be a great idea, considering Darwin have a Dam they could start using again. They should've done it at the same time as they put the train line in.......

Richard Pratt offered to subsidise it a few years back.

Yeah though I could recall Pratty offering something along those lines (the water would end up at Prices Park to water the oval)

Probably more likely to be used in his cardboard factory
Need a fair bit of water for that

[TroyGFC]

I was just discussing at work it should be a option of $1500 worth of either insulation or a rainwater tank, or grey water system.

[wycbloods]

dont have to be unemployed to be a bum

So who does Dutchy classify as a bum?

This will be interesting reading .

[Q.]

pretty ordinary comment Lunchcutter....more discrimination from Crud

why doesnt he put the $$$ into something that might be sustainable in the long term? cause it wont win him votes

Turn it up. $100K a year, you're sweet. Welfare is not for the rich although John Howard tried to make it acceptable. Take money off the poor to give to the rich, some ethics that. Won't win him votes? You think anyone will give a stuff about this payment come late 2010? Speaking of trying to buy votes, What was Howard's old trick...$300 payment to old age pensioners only on the eve of the election? Nah that's not trying to buy votes.

Of course it is a vote-grab (not 100%, but it's a significant factor in this policy). Doesn't matter that an election is not until next year, he has the opposition in a lose-lose situation and the public are lapping up this 'action' in a climate of hysteria.

[Dutchy]

So in reading further, for your kids to get the payment you need to already be receiving welfare....FFS discrimination again

[The Ash Man]

MIGHT NOT GO AHEAD :shock:

The federal coalition will not support the Rudd government's $42 billion economic stimulus package, Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull has told parliament.

The government has introduced legislation to parliament on Wednesday and wants key parts of it passed by Thursday to ensure one-off cash handouts are made from next month.

The coalition and crossbench senators have indicated they want more time to consider the package, calling on the government to allow the upper house to sit next week instead of conducting estimates hearings.

"The opposition will vote against this package in the House (of Representatives) and the Senate," Mr Turnbull told parliament.

"We know that this is not going to be a popular decision, but it's the right decision."

The government was trying to rush through the package through parliament, Mr Turnbull said.

The opposition would not support a further round of cash handouts, he said, adding it was an unpopular thing to say.

"But it's the right thing to say and I think most Australians will recognise in their hearts that it is the right thing to say," he said.

It was "extraordinary" the government would embark on this course when there was no basis for concluding the ($10.4 billion) "cash splash" in December had been effective."

Mr Turnbull did not rule out supporting further stimulus packages, saying it depended on their composition and the economic circumstances.

A more appropriate level of stimulus was about 1.5-2 per cent of GDP.

"Or between 15 and $20 billion."

Earlier, the government said the need to pass the legislation this week was based on advice from Centrelink and the tax office, which will be responsible for making cash payments to families and singles from next month.

Under the package a back-to-school bonus of $950 for each eligible child will be paid from March 11.

A similar bonus will be paid to drought-stricken farmers from March 24 as will a training and learning bonus for students.

Taxpayers earning less than $100,000 will receive a tax bonus of up to $950 each from April.

Mr Turnbull said the stimulus package, which would mostly be spent over the next two years, represented about four per cent of gross domestic product, and followed the $10.4 billion "cash splash" last year.

"If you give people one-off windfall lump sums in uncertain times they are more likely to save it than to spend it," he said.

"Whether governments like to hear it or not the good old-fashioned conservative value of thrift and saving is going to come back into fashion and... it ought to come back into fashion."

Mr Turnbull said $42 billion was a larger stimulus than was appropriate.

The opposition supported bringing forward personal income tax cuts, scheduled for July 1 2009, to January 1 this year as an alternative to the cash handouts.

"It does not put $950 in everybody's pocket today, but that's that point - it increases permanent income and it therefore provides a greater incentive to work and to invest," Mr Turnbull said.

Earlier, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said there were no guarantees the government's second stimulus package would stem the effects of the "economic bushfire" spreading throughout the world.

He said Australia was "in uncharted economic waters" and maintained the $42 billion package was necessary to help see Australia "through the crisis".

The prime minister also responded to opposition criticism of the package, announced on Tuesday.

"You need to go into deficit and you need to borrow," Mr Rudd told the Fairfax Radio Network.

"The Liberal Party surely is not suggesting that you could somehow go out there and not balance your budget by borrowing in order to offset the collapse in tax receipts, or are they suggesting that?

"Are they suggesting there should be no stimulus package and you don't borrow for that?"

Mr Rudd said the latest stimulus package would help support jobs, and build necessary infrastructure including new schools.

"What we are trying to deal with is an economic bushfire which has spread throughout the world," he said.

"There are no guarantees in this whatsoever because we are in uncharted economic waters."

The $42 billion package contains $12.7 billion in cash handouts of up to $950 to be given in March and April to low and middle-income earners, farmers and families.

The payments are intended to be spent immediately, but Mr Rudd said he won't be concerned if the money is used to pay off debt instead.

He also hinted new measures might be introduced to make it easier for people genuinely in need of unemployment benefits to obtain them.

"When it comes to how the government responds to the challenge of those who find themselves unemployed through no fault of their own, we are going to have to go through every one of these measures," he said.

"The deputy prime minister (Julia Gillard) is working through all elements of labour market programs about how you respond to people who find themselves unemployed.

"We'll have more to say on this before too much longer.

"My view is the government and the community have to be humane and compassionate and sensible about how we handle this challenge and therefore all these things have been gone through as we speak."