Soooooo, how's this weather?

[CENTURION]

something needs to be done, the river is buggered, it doesn't have its natural cycles of flood & drought anymore. Banrock Station has re-created it in its wetlands & all the carp have gone & all the native flora & fauna has returned. It can be done. We have to stop treating the river as just one big dam.

[CENTURION]

Some good news, the Barwon is in flood & she joins the Darling below Cubbie Station, so some of QLD's bad weather fell this side of the GDR.

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

Thank you Roxy, it sounds as though you have some knowledge of factors pertaining to this issue.
I like the "technically feasible" statement, but I just want to clear something up, couldn't we just pump the water into the river systems up north, and then allow those rivers to carry the water down south? Granted it'd be very expensive still, but if we balance that expense against the economic benefits, which you point out extends beyond dry land and includes fisheries and as such also tourism, would it be feasible? The NSW, Vic, SA and federal governments would cover most of the cost, and it'd provide employment directly related to the project and the various industries that'd benefit from it (including real estate I imagine Centution).

You could certainly pump from the northern Rivers and release into the Darling system to reduce pumping costs but there are some big issues. As far as water volume goes there are large transmission losses that occur along the Darling System. What i mean by this is evaporative and seepage loss of water. This can often see only 10% of the water that originates in Qld reaching SA (except for during major flooding). This would see effectively a 10% return (or water available for economic use) on the total volume of water released. Also water entering the Darling System can take up to 3 months to get to South Australia so you would need to plan well in advance of when you needed the water. From an environmental point of view the timing of the water delivery would most probably be out of sync with natural cycles. Queensland tends to have its larger rainfall events over our summer. With a 3 month flow time from Qld to SA the water would hit SA in lets say Autumn. Naturally Autumn is a dryer time for the river and so putting water down it at this time may alter or interrupt ecological processes. Of course you could overcome this by storing the water in Queensland and releasing in Winter so it arrives in Southern Australia in Spring but you are still only going to receive10% of what is released (assuming no evaporative loss whist it was stored) and so it is very inefficient.

In any case, Queenslanders hate seeing every drop of water flow over the NSW border to South Eastern Australia as it is, so there is very little chance they will part with any more, especially from river systems which are not naturally linked to Southern Australia. Ah the politics of water

[Bully]

i can both sides of ths story thou here. Being a south aussie and now living in SE QLD. Why should we let our water be pumped to another state. Too bad a lot will or do say yes, but im sure it would be the same if it was the other way around.

Water falling in QLD in actuall fact is ours and ours alone, but when yes there is too much, then maybe we can sell it off to another state. But we have been through the toughest water restrictions that almost all of australia had seen in history, so everyone is the same.

Is SA in an arguement with say NSW for pumping water to SA when theres too much falling in NSW? Hmmm, not sure i have heard so,......

[CENTURION]

Thank you Roxy, it sounds as though you have some knowledge of factors pertaining to this issue.
I like the "technically feasible" statement, but I just want to clear something up, couldn't we just pump the water into the river systems up north, and then allow those rivers to carry the water down south? Granted it'd be very expensive still, but if we balance that expense against the economic benefits, which you point out extends beyond dry land and includes fisheries and as such also tourism, would it be feasible? The NSW, Vic, SA and federal governments would cover most of the cost, and it'd provide employment directly related to the project and the various industries that'd benefit from it (including real estate I imagine Centution).

You could certainly pump from the northern Rivers and release into the Darling system to reduce pumping costs but there are some big issues. As far as water volume goes there are large transmission losses that occur along the Darling System. What i mean by this is evaporative and seepage loss of water. This can often see only 10% of the water that originates in Qld reaching SA (except for during major flooding). This would see effectively a 10% return (or water available for economic use) on the total volume of water released. Also water entering the Darling System can take up to 3 months to get to South Australia so you would need to plan well in advance of when you needed the water. From an environmental point of view the timing of the water delivery would most probably be out of sync with natural cycles. Queensland tends to have its larger rainfall events over our summer. With a 3 month flow time from Qld to SA the water would hit SA in lets say Autumn. Naturally Autumn is a dryer time for the river and so putting water down it at this time may alter or interrupt ecological processes. Of course you could overcome this by storing the water in Queensland and releasing in Winter so it arrives in Southern Australia in Spring but you are still only going to receive10% of what is released (assuming no evaporative loss whist it was stored) and so it is very inefficient.

In any case, Queenslanders hate seeing every drop of water flow over the NSW border to South Eastern Australia as it is, so there is very little chance they will part with any more, especially from river systems which are not naturally linked to Southern Australia. Ah the politics of water

who told them they own it?

[CENTURION]

i can both sides of ths story thou here. Being a south aussie and now living in SE QLD. Why should we let our water be pumped to another state. Too bad a lot will or do say yes, but im sure it would be the same if it was the other way around.

Water falling in QLD in actuall fact is ours and ours alone, but when yes there is too much, then maybe we can sell it off to another state. But we have been through the toughest water restrictions that almost all of australia had seen in history, so everyone is the same.

Is SA in an arguement with say NSW for pumping water to SA when theres too much falling in NSW? Hmmm, not sure i have heard so,......

once again, who said it's yours?

[dedja]

Isn't the northern bank of the the Murray the official border between NSW and Vic?

So in actual fact none of the Murray is in NSW so they shouldn't have any entitlement to the water.

LOL, NSW are the real thieves!

[Bully]

i can both sides of ths story thou here. Being a south aussie and now living in SE QLD. Why should we let our water be pumped to another state. Too bad a lot will or do say yes, but im sure it would be the same if it was the other way around.

Water falling in QLD in actuall fact is ours and ours alone, but when yes there is too much, then maybe we can sell it off to another state. But we have been through the toughest water restrictions that almost all of australia had seen in history, so everyone is the same.

Is SA in an arguement with say NSW for pumping water to SA when theres too much falling in NSW? Hmmm, not sure i have heard so,......

once again, who said it's yours?

Who said it is yours also , who said SA decides who gets the water that falls in northern Tasmania or north east Western Australia ??

[scoob]

i can both sides of ths story thou here. Being a south aussie and now living in SE QLD. Why should we let our water be pumped to another state. Too bad a lot will or do say yes, but im sure it would be the same if it was the other way around.

Water falling in QLD in actuall fact is ours and ours alone, but when yes there is too much, then maybe we can sell it off to another state. But we have been through the toughest water restrictions that almost all of australia had seen in history, so everyone is the same.

Is SA in an arguement with say NSW for pumping water to SA when theres too much falling in NSW? Hmmm, not sure i have heard so,......

You can always stockpile all your water in Wivenhoe dam... that will never fill up and cause major damage when you get stupid amounts of rain - every year.

[The Sleeping Giant]

i can both sides of ths story thou here. Being a south aussie and now living in SE QLD. Why should we let our water be pumped to another state. Too bad a lot will or do say yes, but im sure it would be the same if it was the other way around.

Water falling in QLD in actuall fact is ours and ours alone, but when yes there is too much, then maybe we can sell it off to another state. But we have been through the toughest water restrictions that almost all of australia had seen in history, so everyone is the same.

Is SA in an arguement with say NSW for pumping water to SA when theres too much falling in NSW? Hmmm, not sure i have heard so,......

once again, who said it's yours?

I would say the law says it's theirs.

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

Thus the need for a Nationally accepted and endorsed Murray Darling Basin Plan to manage the Murray Darling Basin as a single catchment rather than the 4 MDB states and one Territory each having a different set of managment and water extraction and use rules on how water is bought, sold, traded, used, volumes available for economic purposes, volumes available for environmental flows, release times, storage rules and quotas etc. etc. etc.

There is a significant benefit to Queensalnd in letting some of "their" water go over the border and down stream, as there is for Victoria to do the same, as there is for SA to allow water out to the ocean. It keeps the river healthy and the water quality good downstream, and therfore, the river with be healthy and the water quality good in Queensland.

[Bully]

I agree , it would . But I am told " who says the water that falls in Queensland is ours "? . I am saying we don't but who said that the south Australian government at its people decide who gets what in the country?

I'm told we are arrogant for saying it ours ( to me if something is in your back hard it's yours , whether its water, a tree, a piee of fruit but that's my view ) , but there is also arrogance in regards to some SA residences saying the water that falls in qld or in northern Tasmania or smith st in Sydney is rightfully or is also south australias

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

I agree , it would . But I am told " who says the water that falls in Queensland is ours "? . I am saying we don't but who said that the south Australian government at its people decide who gets what in the country?

I'm told we are arrogant for saying it ours ( to me if something is in your back hard it's yours , whether its water, a tree, a piee of fruit but that's my view ) , but there is also arrogance in regards to some SA residences saying the water that falls in qld or in northern Tasmania or smith st in Sydney is rightfully or is also south australias

For people to say the water that falls in Qld or elsewhere belongs to SA is indeed an arrogant statment and not a view supported by most people in SA. What SA has been arguing for is enough water to flow through the Murray System to keep it healthy. there has been no arguament put forward for water to come to SA for additional irrigation use, in fact SA capped the volume of water it takes from the Murray for irrigation a couple of decades ago and this volume has stood in place since that time. This was an acknowledgement by the state Governemnt and users of the Murray water that we needed to limit the amount we took as there wasn't an endless amount. The same cannot be said for some of the upstream states who, during the 1990s and 2000s, continued to allocate water for irrigation purposes, to the point where the annual volume of water that was permitted to be extracted from some catchments totaled greater than the annual volume of water flowing down that catchment in an average year, ie: people were licenced to take more water out than there was available. Thus the mess we are in today and the need for a single managment system.

[therisingblues]

Thank you for the informed comments RTRG.
So how do you know so much about rivers?

[Ian]

i can both sides of ths story thou here. Being a south aussie and now living in SE QLD. Why should we let our water be pumped to another state. Too bad a lot will or do say yes, but im sure it would be the same if it was the other way around.

Water falling in QLD in actuall fact is ours and ours alone, but when yes there is too much, then maybe we can sell it off to another state. But we have been through the toughest water restrictions that almost all of australia had seen in history, so everyone is the same.

Is SA in an arguement with say NSW for pumping water to SA when theres too much falling in NSW? Hmmm, not sure i have heard so,......

[Ian]

I agree , it would . But I am told " who says the water that falls in Queensland is ours "? . I am saying we don't but who said that the south Australian government at its people decide who gets what in the country?

Nature says so, the river system relied on water from up stream long before white settlement, just something else we've stuffed up since we moved here, that former Kiwi ex dictator (premier) of yours had a fair bit to do with creating QLD's "it's ours" attitude, FFS, aren't we supposed to be 1 country..................let's all start looking after ALL of our country together!!

I'm told we are arrogant for saying it ours ( to me if something is in your back hard it's yours , whether its water, a tree, a piee of fruit but that's my view )

Not just arrogant, ignorant and selfish also come to mind!

[The Sleeping Giant]

Would be interesting to see how much water the various states take out of the river. South Australia hasn't exactly done a great job protecting the river.

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

Would be interesting to see how much water the various states take out of the river. South Australia hasn't exactly done a great job protecting the river.

Water Use in The Basin

How much water is extracted from the Murray-Darling Basin by each State and jurisdiction?

South Australia, New South Wales and Victoria all rely on water from the Murray-Darling Basin. Key rivers in the basin include the River Murray, Darling River, Goulburn River and Murrumbidgee River. Although the River Murray covers only a small part of the Murray-Darling Basin, this critical waterway supplies, on average, more than two thirds of the Basin’s water resources.

The median annual diversion used by each state between 1997-2010 was:
New South Wales 4,362 GL (51%)
Victoria 2904 GL (34%)
South Australia 603 GL (7%)
Queensland 575 GL (7%)
Australian Capital Territory 28 GL (0.3%)

The following graph shows over-allocation of the Murray-Darling Basin over the last 50 years.

water-use-in-the-murray-darling-basin-11-1024x767.jpg (84.91 KiB) Viewed 256 times

source - http://www.waterforgood.sa.gov.au/rivers-reservoirs-aquifers/murray-darling-basin-plan/water-use-in-the-basin/

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

Thank you for the informed comments RTRG.
So how do you know so much about rivers?

I have an interest in the management of the River.

[Bully]

I agree , it would . But I am told " who says the water that falls in Queensland is ours "? . I am saying we don't but who said that the south Australian government at its people decide who gets what in the country?

Nature says so, the river system relied on water from up stream long before white settlement, just something else we've stuffed up since we moved here, that former Kiwi ex dictator (premier) of yours had a fair bit to do with creating QLD's "it's ours" attitude, FFS, aren't we supposed to be 1 country..................let's all start looking after ALL of our country together!!

I'm told we are arrogant for saying it ours ( to me if something is in your back hard it's yours , whether its water, a tree, a piee of fruit but that's my view )

Not just arrogant, ignorant and selfish also come to mind!