This world of our's...

[Booney]

Anyway, I'm 12 days ( who is counting? ) from bottling my own beer and no **** is going to stop me doing that.

I'm going back to the beer talk.

[whufc]

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that IS using fake refugees to coordinate the attacks?
”

Why are you defending terrorists?
No one here has had a crack at refugees. We're all having a crack at the bomb chuckers who pretend to be refugees.
It's like trying to sort out the wheat from the charf.

He's not defending terrorists, he's stating that terrorists and refugees are two different types of people, which once I would have agreed with. However, for the safety of me, mine, my loved ones and friends I'm not willing to take that as a given anymore and I don't think the world should anymore either. It's very sad, very sad, but it isn't as clear cut as it may have once been and it can't be disputed. It can't be ignored.

That's probably my position and stance now

I live for my two daughters much like a lot of these terrorists live for their respective gods!!!

As sad an as selfish as it if a thousands of refugees have to die to keep my daughters safer than sadly I think I'm for that.

Sucks but the world sucks at the moment

[Q.]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

[whufc]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

[Psyber]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

While it is possibly true that the whole area would now be more stable if Gaddafi and Hussein had been left in power and maybe less lives would have been lost, there is still the question of whether the western powers, having made some bad decisions in the past, should out of guilt make more risky choices by not checking out the alleged refugees thoroughly...

The question now is whether to go back in and try to fix it or to pull out, isolate the region, and leave the region to sort itself out. That may have been the best choice they could have made a decade ago.

BUT which choice would have been more cruel and which is more risky now?

[Q.]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

The greatest threat to us here will come from fostering a climate of division, marginalisation of minorities and isolation of youth.

[Booney]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

The greatest threat to us here will come from fostering a climate of division, marginalisation of minorities and isolation of youth.

Who creates this then?

[JK]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

The greatest threat to us here will come from fostering a climate of division, marginalisation of minorities and isolation of youth.

That's certainly the biggest threat not only to us, but our future generations. Ive felt very similarly to Whufc when it comes to the priority I place on my kids, but Im not sure leaving innocent and defenceless men, women and children in the middle east to await their brutal fate (or become recruited/coerced to deliver the brutality) is the right way to go. It's only by pure fortune me and mine were born here and not in some war torn country - Had we been I'd be begging for someone to save my children.

Keeping the children safe today, and making for a safer environment for them in the years to come aren't necessarily the same thing. I don't know what the answer is to be honest, but I hope someone can find the answer and the people of the world can unite in their front to put an end to these atrocities. Hard to have confidence in it happening though.

[whufc]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

The greatest threat to us here will come from fostering a climate of division, marginalisation of minorities and isolation of youth.

True but regardless of what we foster here while we are fighting against IS our home soil is going to be a target.

[Q.]

The problem is, you can't be complicit in their displacement and not seek a solution to the humanitarian crisis.

Agree which makes this so complex probably than any of us safooty posters will ever understand, especially once you start take on humanitarian rights, financial implications etc etc

While it is possibly true that the whole area would now be more stable if Gaddafi and Hussein had been left in power and maybe less lives would have been lost, there is still the question of whether the western powers, having made some bad decisions in the past, should out of guilt make more risky choices by not checking out the alleged refugees thoroughly...

The question now is whether to go back in and try to fix it or to pull out, isolate the region, and leave the region to sort itself out. That may have been the best choice they could have made a decade ago.

BUT which choice would have been more cruel and which is more risky now?

Western powers underestimated the organisational capabilities of Sunni extremist groups like Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad and Salafiah al-Mujahidiah in the region, which now form the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS). It's bureaucracy is split into civil and military arms and requires territory for it's legitimacy. Vacation of western forces and it's allies from the region is not an option.

[Q.]

Who creates this then?

We are responsible for this nation's social climate.

[Q.]

True but regardless of what we foster here while we are fighting against IS our home soil is going to be a target.

Exactly, so while it's necessary to defeat IS on the battlefront in the ME, it is also necessary to counter their recruitment propaganda here too.

[whufc]

True but regardless of what we foster here while we are fighting against IS our home soil is going to be a target.

Exactly, so while it's necessary to defeat IS on the battlefront in the ME, it is also necessary to counter their recruitment propaganda here too.

Could there not be an element of that propaganda that is coming into the country through refugees or 'fake refugees'

[Booney]

True but regardless of what we foster here while we are fighting against IS our home soil is going to be a target.

Exactly, so while it's necessary to defeat IS on the battlefront in the ME, it is also necessary to counter their recruitment propaganda here too.

Could there not be an element of that propaganda that is coming into the country through refugees or 'fake refugees'

Apparently not. ( But you'd have to be a fool to believe it )

[Q.]

True but regardless of what we foster here while we are fighting against IS our home soil is going to be a target.

Exactly, so while it's necessary to defeat IS on the battlefront in the ME, it is also necessary to counter their recruitment propaganda here too.

Could there not be an element of that propaganda that is coming into the country through refugees or 'fake refugees'

Into Australia?

It would be highly unlikely and ridiculously ineffective to use asylum seeking to infiltrate Australia.

[Magellan]

On a related political matter, I just saw Bill Shorten give a press conference on the mooted hike of the GST. Given that the dust of Paris is yet to settle, particularly with retaliatory air strikes now happening, and that most of the media's questions this tactic are on terrorism, this tactic appears to have been a dud. Labor's not gong to get any cut through on other topics for days as Turnbull plays statesman (and quite rightly). In fact, the Paris horror is probably to Turnbull's (and any incumbent leader's) advantage, sadly.

[Booney]

True but regardless of what we foster here while we are fighting against IS our home soil is going to be a target.

Exactly, so while it's necessary to defeat IS on the battlefront in the ME, it is also necessary to counter their recruitment propaganda here too.

Could there not be an element of that propaganda that is coming into the country through refugees or 'fake refugees'

Into Australia?

It would be highly unlikely and ridiculously ineffective to use asylum seeking to infiltrate Australia.

For groups or large numbers, unlikely and difficult. For individuals, not impossible.

[Q.]

They would enter via legitimate means. It makes no sense to run the asylum seeking gauntlet.

[whufc]

They would enter via legitimate means. It makes no sense to run the asylum seeking gauntlet.

They were just saying on cnn (admittedly not the greatest source)

But a lot of these refugees are able to enter these countries with zero paperwork (only having to answer intensive questioning) due to the fact that thousands of Syrian regfugees have had to leave so quickly and without warning they don't always have their passports, paperwork etc.

[Booney]

They would enter via legitimate means. It makes no sense to run the asylum seeking gauntlet.

Of course, the people we are referring to are very considered, level headed people who make rational, reasonable decisions.