Unions

Anything!

Are you in a union?

Yes
23
43%
No
31
57%
 
Total votes : 54

Re: Unions

Postby wycbloods » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:25 pm

White Line Fever wrote:
wycbloods wrote:ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.


Imbalance between boss and worker?

That imbalance is there for a reason.
You work for them.


They pay you for your labour which is helping the company to make a profit, hopefully.

Your labour is for you to provide and for you to withdraw.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jnr.

CoverKing said what?

Agree with AF on this one!
wycbloods
Coach
 
 
Posts: 7006
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am
Location: WYC or Westies
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Unions

Postby LMA » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:44 pm

White Line Fever wrote:
Sturtman wrote:
White Line Fever wrote:Would you strike if told by your union?

Would they also sacrifice pay while you did?

Would you want a loud-mouth illiterate unionist represent you and have a say with your life & career?

Do you notice people not in the union say they personally don't want to but whatever the individual wants to do is up to them.
But unionists say you should join, we are all in it etc etc trying to peer pressure and use a mob rule mentality.

I dislike the way they approach it and i'm yet to meet a union delegate that can hold a proper conversation without becoming argumentative or aggressive.

My experiences are purely based on construction industry and are therefore extremer than other industries.

Sturtman why should a Phillipino who can't speak english earn the same coin as an english speaking gyppy?
You need to communicate in construction and by creating equals it only bring the 'lesser' workers up to the level guys have been working hard for years.
Although they may be a good worker any employer would rather english speaking employees unless they only want pure labour so no they shouldn't get paid as much as others.

The union doesn't represent the individual and usually have alterior motives for their actions.

There are other organisations that don't charge $500 a year to represent the employees WorkCover, Workplace services etc and sometimes you just need to speak to your employer instead of going direct to the union.


I was getting at the fact that it is hard for businesses to compete when tendering jobs against a company paying pretty much half the wages of another company.


True.

But you get what you pay for.
There are plenty of smart contractors out there who refuse to use the cheap subbies as they do not perform and it ends up costing more.

That is what employees miss.
For every dollar more they want it risks the company not winning work.

Then when they get laid off they go to the union but it was the union that forced up the costs in the beginning.


So you don't like pay rises then ?

The unions fight tooth and nail with with employers to get us a yearly pay rise, which is still usually pale in comparison to the constant rise of essential living expenses ( rent/mortgage,food,education,health care,child care, petrol, rego,utilities and so on ) and optional living expenses ( food,booze,tobacco,sport,recreation) You might be able to negotiate a better increase for yourself, but for the majority, the rank and file for a union term, rely on a union for such rewards, otherwise we would be working without yearly pay rises, working longer hours on the same rate, taking on more workload, inturn possibly creating an unsafe workplace. There's is no limitations at what employers will do and try to do to save a buck.

What do we want ? When do we want it ? :D
User avatar
LMA
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6237
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:37 pm
Has liked: 387 times
Been liked: 714 times
Grassroots Team: Port District

Re: Unions

Postby Strawb » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:49 pm

I love a good pay rise and better conditions that a union fights for. Best example look at the USofA some place where they are not unions are paid less for doing the same work than a place where there is a union. John Howard tried to get rid of Unions with his work place relations. IF China became unionised Jobs would come back here because they would not be able to afford to make cheap products like they do.
I am the Voice Left From Drinking
Strawb
Coach
 
 
Posts: 8604
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:16 pm
Has liked: 17 times
Been liked: 12 times
Grassroots Team: Wingfield Royals

Re: Unions

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:52 pm

LMA wrote:What do we want ? When do we want it ? :D



Image
User avatar
Footy Chick
Moderator
 
 
Posts: 26904
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: anywhere I want to be...
Has liked: 1767 times
Been liked: 2191 times

Re: Unions

Postby wycbloods » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:21 pm

8Hr Day
RDO's
Annual Leave
Long Service Leave

The list goes on.

Did employers just wake up one day and think they would be a good idea?

I don't think so. Plenty of people before us fought hard, and some paid the ultimate sacrifice, to win these conditions for us and i certainly am one that doesn't want to leave my kids with worse employment conditions than i inherited from my parents.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jnr.

CoverKing said what?

Agree with AF on this one!
wycbloods
Coach
 
 
Posts: 7006
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am
Location: WYC or Westies
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Unions

Postby Media Park » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:31 pm

Was in the union at Woolies... Apparently it cost me nothing (I wouldn't have known anyway if it came out of my wages direct), and they gave me a gift voucher at Christmas... I left Woolies at 17 though...

In my "adult" workings, I have never joined a union, but I am a dumb worker. Don't know when they ask too much of me, don't know if I'm being paid by the right award, etc...

I believe in this day and age, with Safe Work SA, and the Workplace Ombudsman, etc, if you can't get help through them, then there isn't much the unions can do to help you.
Direct quote:
Wedgie wrote:I wear skin tight arseless leather pants, wtf do you wear?
User avatar
Media Park
Coach
 
 
Posts: 13864
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:28 pm
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 0 time
Grassroots Team: Boston

Re: Unions

Postby wycbloods » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:34 pm

Media Park wrote:Was in the union at Woolies... Apparently it cost me nothing (I wouldn't have known anyway if it came out of my wages direct), and they gave me a gift voucher at Christmas... I left Woolies at 17 though...

In my "adult" workings, I have never joined a union, but I am a dumb worker. Don't know when they ask too much of me, don't know if I'm being paid by the right award, etc...

I believe in this day and age, with Safe Work SA, and the Workplace Ombudsman, etc, if you can't get help through them, then there isn't much the unions can do to help you.


FWO and Safework SA are pretty useless when it comes to chasing underpayment of wages etc.

They also don't negotiate on behalf of people either.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jnr.

CoverKing said what?

Agree with AF on this one!
wycbloods
Coach
 
 
Posts: 7006
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am
Location: WYC or Westies
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Unions

Postby dedja » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:47 pm

wycbloods wrote:ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.


LOL, what world do you live in? :lol:

If unions are so good, why is it that less than 20% of workers are members? #-o
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.

I’m only the administrator of the estate of dedja … my yes be yes, my no be no
User avatar
dedja
Coach
 
 
Posts: 24462
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:10 pm
Has liked: 800 times
Been liked: 1706 times

Re: Unions

Postby fish » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:58 pm

dedja wrote:If unions are so good, why is it that less than 20% of workers are members? #-o

Probably because they know they will get the benefits that the union helps all employees to get without having to pay up to be members. [-x

If more people joined the fees would go down.
User avatar
fish
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6908
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:28 pm
Has liked: 190 times
Been liked: 48 times

Re: Unions

Postby dedja » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:07 pm

fish wrote:If more people joined the fees would go down.


Union fees would go down if people like Jan McMahon weren't earning $180K per year ...
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.

I’m only the administrator of the estate of dedja … my yes be yes, my no be no
User avatar
dedja
Coach
 
 
Posts: 24462
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:10 pm
Has liked: 800 times
Been liked: 1706 times

Re: Unions

Postby Squawk » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:52 pm

dedja wrote:
fish wrote:If more people joined the fees would go down.


Union fees would go down if people like Jan McMahon weren't earning $180K per year ...


Maybe in 2000 she was :D

Oh, the deals she is (allegedly) on, officially and unofficially.

Ironically, half of this strife could have been avoided if the PSA had actually done something in the last 10 years. But given they are only interested in speed camera operators and prison officers, it's not surprising.
Steve Bradbury and Michael Milton. Aussie Legends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnztSjUB2U
User avatar
Squawk
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4665
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Coopers Stadium
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 3 times

Re: Unions

Postby Squawk » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:59 pm

dedja wrote:
wycbloods wrote:ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.


LOL, what world do you live in? :lol:

If unions are so good, why is it that less than 20% of workers are members? #-o


The 17% more pay would be for a good reason: because unions really only chase hard at the big end of town. Those who work in non-descript businesses - ie typically less than 100 employees and definitely not household names - are not the market the unions target. Their strategy is simple - hit the big end of town and hope the wins flow on through. CFMEU, ETU and others are especially good at this.

Simply put - a secretary working for Telstra is far more likely to get paid more than a secretary who works for your local garage. The Telstra secretary is far more likely to be in a union than the garage secretary. Hence, their jobs might be very similar but they are paid very differently. On the other hand, two secretaries working in Telstra in virtually identical jobs (eg same business unit, different bosses) would probably get the same pay because the same Award/Enterprise Agreement covers them both, irrespective of whether they are union members or not.

The Office of the Employee Ombudsman will assist non-union members with workplace problems, (much to the chagrin of the unions).
Steve Bradbury and Michael Milton. Aussie Legends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnztSjUB2U
User avatar
Squawk
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4665
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Coopers Stadium
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 3 times

Re: Unions

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:33 pm

wycbloods wrote:ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.


Yep, and what percentage of people who previously worked in the manufacturing industry in Australia ( cars, washing machines, dryers, fridges, car components ) are now unemployed because of it?
If you want to go quickly, go alone.

If you want to go far, go together.
User avatar
Booney
Coach
 
 
Posts: 61728
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:47 pm
Location: Alberton proud
Has liked: 8213 times
Been liked: 11945 times

Re: Unions

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:35 pm

wycbloods wrote:8Hr Day
RDO's
Annual Leave
Long Service Leave

The list goes on.

Did employers just wake up one day and think they would be a good idea?

I don't think so. Plenty of people before us fought hard, and some paid the ultimate sacrifice, to win these conditions for us and i certainly am one that doesn't want to leave my kids with worse employment conditions than i inherited from my parents.


Died? Or lost their jobs?
If you want to go quickly, go alone.

If you want to go far, go together.
User avatar
Booney
Coach
 
 
Posts: 61728
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:47 pm
Location: Alberton proud
Has liked: 8213 times
Been liked: 11945 times

Re: Unions

Postby dedja » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:11 pm

Booney wrote:
wycbloods wrote:8Hr Day
RDO's
Annual Leave
Long Service Leave

The list goes on.

Did employers just wake up one day and think they would be a good idea?

I don't think so. Plenty of people before us fought hard, and some paid the ultimate sacrifice, to win these conditions for us and i certainly am one that doesn't want to leave my kids with worse employment conditions than i inherited from my parents.


Died? Or lost their jobs?


Don't make fun of the class war ... [-x

:D
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.

I’m only the administrator of the estate of dedja … my yes be yes, my no be no
User avatar
dedja
Coach
 
 
Posts: 24462
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:10 pm
Has liked: 800 times
Been liked: 1706 times

Re: Unions

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:02 pm

wycbloods wrote:
Media Park wrote:Was in the union at Woolies... Apparently it cost me nothing (I wouldn't have known anyway if it came out of my wages direct), and they gave me a gift voucher at Christmas... I left Woolies at 17 though...

In my "adult" workings, I have never joined a union, but I am a dumb worker. Don't know when they ask too much of me, don't know if I'm being paid by the right award, etc...

I believe in this day and age, with Safe Work SA, and the Workplace Ombudsman, etc, if you can't get help through them, then there isn't much the unions can do to help you.


FWO and Safework SA are pretty useless when it comes to chasing underpayment of wages etc.

They also don't negotiate on behalf of people either.



well i disagree, i went thru an underpayment of wages, union took over 18months to finalise it. A work colleague went through ombudsman and was sorted in 6 weeks and they had a very similar claim to mine.
Matty Wade is a star and deserves more respect from the forum family!
User avatar
mighty_tiger_79
Coach
 
Posts: 60979
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:29 pm
Location: at the TAB
Has liked: 13450 times
Been liked: 4650 times

Re: Unions

Postby wycbloods » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:32 pm

dedja wrote:
Booney wrote:
wycbloods wrote:8Hr Day
RDO's
Annual Leave
Long Service Leave

The list goes on.

Did employers just wake up one day and think they would be a good idea?

I don't think so. Plenty of people before us fought hard, and some paid the ultimate sacrifice, to win these conditions for us and i certainly am one that doesn't want to leave my kids with worse employment conditions than i inherited from my parents.


Died? Or lost their jobs?


Don't make fun of the class war ... [-x

:D


That would be die Booney.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jnr.

CoverKing said what?

Agree with AF on this one!
wycbloods
Coach
 
 
Posts: 7006
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am
Location: WYC or Westies
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Unions

Postby Sojourner » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:13 pm

In France its a 36 hour working week, that is something I would very much support the Union to fight for here. There is plenty of talk about what Unions have done in the past, lets see some more of the same!
Steamranger, South Australia's best ever Tourist Attraction, Treat Yourself, Let your Money Buy you Happiness!!!
User avatar
Sojourner
Veteran
 
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:25 pm
Has liked: 7 times
Been liked: 3 times
Grassroots Team: Ovingham

Re: Unions

Postby wycbloods » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:29 pm

Sojourner wrote:In France its a 36 hour working week, that is something I would very much support the Union to fight for here. There is plenty of talk about what Unions have done in the past, lets see some more of the same!


There are some industries/ employers that do have a 36 hour week currently, but they are strong union sites. I think the main focus of the union movement in the last 3-4 years has been, deservedly so, the YR@W campaign and maintaining the things that have been fought for in the past.

I don't disagree that there needs to be more of the bigger picture, more widely impacting issue to fight for and win for workers and their families.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jnr.

CoverKing said what?

Agree with AF on this one!
wycbloods
Coach
 
 
Posts: 7006
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am
Location: WYC or Westies
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Unions

Postby dedja » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:37 pm

wycbloods wrote:I don't disagree that there needs to be more of the bigger picture, more widely impacting issue to fight for and win for workers and their families.


Just out of interest, what specifically do you mean here?
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.

I’m only the administrator of the estate of dedja … my yes be yes, my no be no
User avatar
dedja
Coach
 
 
Posts: 24462
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:10 pm
Has liked: 800 times
Been liked: 1706 times

PreviousNext

Board index   General Talk  General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gossipgirl and 15 guests

Around the place

Competitions   SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums   Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |