2010 SA Road Toll

[Psyber]

Psyber, I hear what you're saying and I've read your other posts.
The only thing I'd add is that no matter what training or experience one has, an open county road is a vastly different environment to a controlled race track or similar.
To safely avoid a collision at 100, 110, 120+ km/h is extremely difficult when the verge is not big enough, there's a drain running parallel to the road, or there's trees or fences to contend with when you run out of tarmac.
If I'm driving my family on a country road I always have these issues at the back of my mind ... after all a wife and 3 kids is a precious cargo.
I think of how am I going to stop safely if someone comes at me around the bend on the wrong side of the road. The simple answer is that in some stretches of road (in fact many) you are in the lap of the Gods. I would prefer to keep at the speed limit if only because I have a somewhat better chance at 100 or 110 than 120 or 130. I might not increase the odds but much, but it may be enough to save my family's lives.

I agree with those points mate, and I certainly contain my speed if there is not good distance vision, or there are narrow verges or blind bends.

[A Mum]

Most in here are right on the money, after spending many many years of my life dealing with these tragic crashes, it really comes down probably 8 times out of 10 to bad driver behaviour and irresponsibility. Look at the figures, a large majority are unforunately killed on country roads, why we ask, some roads sure are not up to the safest standards but how many kids or younger adults would know how to correct a vehicle that starts sliding out of control at high speed after hitting a dirt verge. Do they know what to do as they come around a bend or all of a sudden an animal pops out in front of you. Maybe 1/4 if we are lucky. People know that speed cameras are not out on Country roads alot and know for certain they are not out there (Country) after dark. So the attitude comes in lets put the foot down and have some fun. Tragedy waiting to happen. How do we educate the new drivers better, there are a number of school programmes run, the programme isn't pretty nor was it designed to be, but somehow the message still isn't getting across. We can say all we like about raising the age, (18 minimum IMHO) only letting them have 4 cylinder vehicles, not allowing passengers after a certain time.

You can teach people to drive and drive safely, however in some cases you cannot teach their brain to say focussed at the job at hand and in the end people lose their lives. Unfortunately there is no real solution apart from further education by us, the parents to our children, talk to them about it all the time, make them sit and watch the news when there is another tragic and senseless road death on our roads. There is not much more one can really do apart from hope and pray ech time our kids go out driving or go out with friends that they come home safely.

Well said Locky

[tipper]

Just for everyones info sa has passed high performance vehicle restriction laws for p plate drivers. they will no longer be able to drive v8, turbo\supercharged or vehicles modified in any way to increase "performance". the laws havent come in yet but will do in about august i believe. the restrictions are basically the same as victoria, nsw and queensland. a power or killowatt limit was looked at but was not implemented as it brings in too many exemptions. Vic originally brought in a kw limit but changed it as a subaru wrx (one of the main types of vehicles in mind when they introduced the laws) fit under the limit and was still able to be driven!!!

also coming in at the same time is an increase to learner time, up from 6 months to twelve and an increased in the compulsory driving hours from 50 to 75 hours. it means that young people will have to be at least 17 before they get their "P's" rather than 16 and a half.

Personally i dont know if the new restrictions will make much of a difference. there is a section the community that already doesnt obey the existing laws, why would they suddenly start obeying these now? (using the 100kph limit for p platers as an example)

there is also a curfew system already in place for p platers, but only if they have already been caught doing the wrong thing. if they have had what is deemed to be a serious breach of their p conditions, after their disqualification, they are issued with a curfew which operates between midnight and 5 am. they may only drive during that time under full learner conditions. that means l plates, 8kph max(in appropriate area of course) and a "qualified supervising driver" in the passenger seat. as i said though, that is only for those that have already shown their bad tendencies.

[CK]

I grew up in the country and therefore, did most of my practice driving on dirt/gravel roads, at Dad's insistence. He always said that if you can handle a car on those conditions, you should be able to handle nearly everything and I firmly believe he was right.
Whether the government has the resources to set up driving centres with simulated country driving conditions, such as stretches of dirt/gravel roads, is another story. There does seem a lot of accidents, particularly rollovers, on these sorts of roads, and it would seem a lot of them - by no means all - are from drivers who simply have little or no experience on them.

[Ian]

I grew up in the country and therefore, did most of my practice driving on dirt/gravel roads, at Dad's insistence. He always said that if you can handle a car on those conditions, you should be able to handle nearly everything and I firmly believe he was right.

Same, and before the gravel roads it was in paddocks and on the 90 mile beach.

I did come unstuck a few months after I got my licence, I rolled my parents car on a freshly graded road, and no, I wasn't hooning (that time) I was driving well below the speed limit and at what most thought was suitable for the conditions, thankfully both my mate and I were wearing our seat belts and got out unscathed.

[FlyingHigh]

Other states have stricter laws than we do when it comes to kids and driving...

ie: cant drive V8's or turbo's, can't get their licence until their older etc... probably something that SA should look at - just like a motorbike licence, kids should only be able to drive 4 cylinder cars until they're off their P's or until they're 21 or 25. I know driving a 4 cylinder isn't going to stop some people from driving like idiots but it's all a start.

Not being able to carry passengers between 11pm and 6am etc..at least they're only killing themselves then and not their mates.

I'd personally like to see boys not be able to get their licence until they're 21 but I know that'll never happen because someone will cry discrimination.

On the other end of the scale, oldies can be just as bad through poor eyesight and judgement.

Had a similar discussion with Samuudogs a while ago. I believe it shouldn't be based on age but rather having achieved something to show a certain level of maturity in society, such as completion of Year 11 or a full year of TAFE or full-time work if left school beforehand. My idea is based on the fact kids spend an extra year in recepetion compared to 15-20 years ago, and so turn 16 during year 10 (or 9 if fail a year), whereas previously were turning 16 during year 11 (I was still only 15 when I started yr 12).

[FlyingHigh]

I grew up in the country and therefore, did most of my practice driving on dirt/gravel roads, at Dad's insistence. He always said that if you can handle a car on those conditions, you should be able to handle nearly everything and I firmly believe he was right.

Same, and before the gravel roads it was in paddocks and on the 90 mile beach.

I did come unstuck a few months after I got my licence, I rolled my parents car on a freshly graded road, and no, I wasn't hooning (that time) I was driving well below the speed limit and at what most thought was suitable for the conditions, thankfully both my mate and I were wearing our seat belts and got out unscathed.

This is part of the trouble too, I believe. There is too much focus on being able to do some of the skills such as parallel parking and hill starts and not enough focus on car control, driving on dirt roads, in wet weather, in the country, overtaking different length vehicles doing different speeds, driving amongst trucks (behind, in front of, or coming the other way), or general attitudes etc etc

[A Mum]

I had a passing conversation with a young person I crossed paths with not long ago-
(City based not country based)

Who informed me that he has 2 or 3 friends who drive not only without displaying P plates - but having no licence at all !
(All around 17/18)

Which actually horrified/shocked me - so what happens here - nothing unless they get pulled over for something?
Also begs me to ask whose car/s are they driving?

[tipper]

I had a passing conversation with a young person I crossed paths with not long ago-
(City based not country based)

Who informed me that he has 2 or 3 friends who drive not only without displaying P plates - but having no licence at all !
(All around 17/18)

Which actually horrified/shocked me - so what happens here - nothing unless they get pulled over for something?
Also begs me to ask whose car/s are they driving?

quite possibly their own car\s. you dont have to have a licence to have a car registered in your name.

that is also some of my concern with coming down hard on p plate drivers. you only penalise the ones that are already doing the right thing. the ones thta dont obey the current restrictions, wont obey the tougher ones.

the big crash a few months ago involving the wrx, where one guy died and the other lost a leg (i think), they were street racing, and the deceased driver had never held a licence. restricting the type of vehicle p platers can drive would not have had any effect at all on that crash as he was already doing the wrong thing.

also there may only be a shifting effect of toughening up on p platers. if they are restricted to a daewoo matiz for their p plate period, who says that when they get their full licence (the earliest will be at 19) they wont go out, get their v8 commo or turbo import and write themselves off then? they still wont have the car handling experience. instead of crashing at 17 and 18 it will just be at 19 and 20. same result.

[Footy Chick]

which is why you raise the age of owning a V8 or turbo to 25 - just like insurance companies. That way, they've got at least 9 years of experience up their sleeve. Perhaps they need to pass a V8 or turbo driving test to drive one too.

Kind of like a defensive driving course.

[FlyingHigh]

which is why you raise the age of owning a V8 or turbo to 25 - just like insurance companies. That way, they've got at least 9 years of experience up their sleeve. Perhaps they need to pass a V8 or turbo driving test to drive one too.

Kind of like a defensive driving course.

A defensive driving course was not part of the training when i got my L's. Is it now? Should be a compulsory part of the license process. Even twice, once when getting off L's and refresher when getting off P's.

Like tipper said, this is still only an enforcement on those willing to do the right things.
Perhaps we need to get serious about driving unlicensed, and those driving unregistered vehicles, and make the punishments stronger.

[tipper]

which is why you raise the age of owning a V8 or turbo to 25 - just like insurance companies. That way, they've got at least 9 years of experience up their sleeve. Perhaps they need to pass a V8 or turbo driving test to drive one too.

Kind of like a defensive driving course.

That should be compulsory for all novice drivers, wether they want to drive a "performance" car or not. but it would cost the government too many votes\too much money to introduce. it is much easier to introduce ever more restrictive rules onto the people that are already doing the right thing and of course the associated new expiations to go with......

[tipper]

which is why you raise the age of owning a V8 or turbo to 25 - just like insurance companies. That way, they've got at least 9 years of experience up their sleeve. Perhaps they need to pass a V8 or turbo driving test to drive one too.

Kind of like a defensive driving course.

A defensive driving course was not part of the training when i got my L's. Is it now? Should be a compulsory part of the license process. Even twice, once when getting off L's and refresher when getting off P's.

Like tipper said, this is still only an enforcement on those willing to do the right things.
Perhaps we need to get serious about driving unlicensed, and those driving unregistered vehicles, and make the punishments stronger.

there is no system of enforced defensive\advanced driver training in south australia. in fact i dont think any state of australia has such a system of compulsory driver education. as mentioned earlier the instructors seem just as worried about parallell parking as they do everything else. i doubt the risk of death is high when doing less than 5 kph while parking your car! as i said though, i doubt the government will introduce it. it wouldnt be in their interests for re election.

[aceman]

I had a passing conversation with a young person I crossed paths with not long ago-
(City based not country based)

Who informed me that he has 2 or 3 friends who drive not only without displaying P plates - but having no licence at all !
(All around 17/18)

Which actually horrified/shocked me - so what happens here - nothing unless they get pulled over for something?
Also begs me to ask whose car/s are they driving?

It also begs the question;When they have an accident, there is zero insurance on anything, lives, vehicles etc so how does that impact on those left behind?
Extremely severely but it just keeps on happening.
Flouting the law has become an "artform" for many people, sad but true!

[Lightning McQueen]

It has always astounded me that you can drive a car on a road before you are allowed to buy a packet of durries or hire an "R" rated video from a video store.

[Gingernuts]

It has always astounded me that you can drive a car on a road before you are allowed to buy a packet of durries or hire an "R" rated video from a video store.

Agree. I actually didn't get my L's until I was 18 because I didn't feel old enough to drive a car yet. It's extremely well known that the development of the 'risk assessing' part of the brain isn't complete until early twenties. Psyber would probably be able to shed more light on it, but there was a good doco on the ABC last year looking at the development of teenagers that discussed this.

[locky801]

I had a passing conversation with a young person I crossed paths with not long ago-
(City based not country based)

Who informed me that he has 2 or 3 friends who drive not only without displaying P plates - but having no licence at all !
(All around 17/18)

Which actually horrified/shocked me - so what happens here - nothing unless they get pulled over for something?
Also begs me to ask whose car/s are they driving?

It also begs the question;When they have an accident, there is zero insurance on anything, lives, vehicles etc so how does that impact on those left behind?
Extremely severely but it just keeps on happening.
Flouting the law has become an "artform" for many people, sad but true!

You will all be totally astounded if you knew how many people out there are driving Unlicensed or even under disqualification. The patrol area I worked prior to leaving the job, it was nothing unusual to get 5 to 6 persons a day driving either unlicensed or disqualified. As he been mentioned a lot stiffer penalties need to be given out. what asstounds me even more is that these people can still actually register a vehicle in their name even after being pinched a dozen or more times for driving unlicensed

[Booney]

I know someone in their late 30's who has driven since 16 and never had a test or held a drivers licence.

[HH3]

Agree. I actually didn't get my L's until I was 18 because I didn't feel old enough to drive a car yet. It's extremely well known that the development of the 'risk assessing' part of the brain isn't complete until early twenties. Psyber would probably be able to shed more light on it, but there was a good doco on the ABC last year looking at the development of teenagers that discussed this.

I didnt get my Ls until August 2009 at the age of 21. I have my final test in the next couple of weeks. I have no intent or desire to hoon...and i just want a small reliable car for now. Saying that, if i got my license when i was at school i wouldve tried to get the fastest car i could and go with my mates to Pelican Point and do doughies and drag...

I think you mature a lot from the age of 16 to the age of 21...but i dont think the age should be changed because out of all the young people ive been around that have got there license at 16, 90% are responsible...and it gives them their independence. I know what its like to rely on public transport...and its no fun at all.

[Dog_ger]

Someone with greater intelligence than me has to make a decision here.

I was an idiot driver when I was young.

The only thing that changed my driving habits was age.

Now I drive as an old Fart.

Nothing changed my driving habits.

I was an idiot.

As i got older I realised I was not bullet proof.

My earlier cars could not do the speeds of today's cars.

WAKE UP GOVERNMENTS

It's the cars.