got kids? sending them to a public or private school?

[Iron Fist]

Private schools are not private. They steal money from the public system. And it must stop.
If people want to send their precious little darlings to a 'private' school then let them pay for it.
The govt. schools need all the funds that full tax paying employees, without teams of creative
accountants can muster.

Ooooh, that feels good. Been wanting to say that for years.

I went to public schools, Fort Battle-Axe (the Mrs.) went to a so-called 'private' school.
35 years later I've got a plethora of great friends and memories, she's got 1 friend (who went
there from a public primary school) and non-stop stories of bitchiness, bullying and hurt.

For those agonising over the educational choice for their 'genetic mixtures', maybe we have the
answer. We sent our 2 miscreants through the public system and carefully monitored their
curriculum results. Instead of paying those outrageous 'private' fees, the much cheaper and
far more affective choice was to pay a private tutor for 'one on one' lessons for subjects in
which our little home wreckers fell behind. Fortunately this only happened once (Japanese).

Go to open nights and check your schools and their reputations carefully first of course.
Good luck and may your junior terrorists be more grateful for your nurturing than ours are.

thats just women
has nothing to do with what sort of school they went to!!

[SABRE]

Private schools are not private. They steal money from the public system. And it must stop.
If people want to send their precious little darlings to a 'private' school then let them pay for it.
The govt. schools need all the funds that full tax paying employees, without teams of creative
accountants can muster.

Ooooh, that feels good. Been wanting to say that for years.

I disagree with your point. The funds the government put into private schools is to help take the stress off public schools.
The money they put in doesn't even come close to what they'd have to put in if thoses kids went public.
Stop the money going to private schools and they'll put fees up which will send more kids back into the public system leaving less resources for the kids currently there. If monies to private schools stopped your children would get a worse education.

I was about to say the same thing Wedgie.
The same applies to healthcare, the public system would collapse if nobody went private.
My line is that all people are entitled to their share of the public expenditure on education or health.
If some want to use it, topped up with their own money, to go private in schooling or healthcare then fair enough. They make room in the overstretched public systems for those who can't or won't.
I guess it also works in transport - how would our public transport system cope, and what would it cost, if everybody gave up using their cars to save money.

Sorry Wedgie & Psyber, we’ve heard the Liberal spin on all these old arguments too many times
to be sucked in anymore. I'm surprised anyone still believes them. While private kids get 10 or 12
lane indoor heated swimming pools with gymnasiums, public kids are having to share basic
classroom requirements or go without.

Having visited private schools during interschool sports, I was thoroughly disgusted that ANY of
my hard earned tax dollars were supporting such mind numbing opulence. It’s bloody obscene !

Maybe public money to private schools should be decreased slowly to ease the separation
issues, but without any shadow of doubt, the private sector must be weaned off the public teat
and learn to stand on it’s own two feet. If some people want special conditions for their kids fine.
But don’t expect the rest of us to pay for it !

[Dogwatcher]

We sent ours to a public school for primary and private for secondary. St. Columba offer excellent alternatives after year 10 if the kids aren't academic geniuses. We're happy, the kids are happy.

Gee, to think of all those private school kids you would've paid out growing up

[Psyber]

Sorry Wedgie & Psyber, we’ve heard the Liberal spin on all these old arguments too many times
to be sucked in anymore. I'm surprised anyone still believes them. While private kids get 10 or 12
lane indoor heated swimming pools with gymnasiums, public kids are having to share basic
classroom requirements or go without.

Having visited private schools during interschool sports, I was thoroughly disgusted that ANY of
my hard earned tax dollars were supporting such mind numbing opulence. It’s bloody obscene !

Maybe public money to private schools should be decreased slowly to ease the separation
issues, but without any shadow of doubt, the private sector must be weaned off the public teat
and learn to stand on it’s own two feet. If some people want special conditions for their kids fine.
But don’t expect the rest of us to pay for it !

Sabre, I think the federal contributions to education pay no more per head for students in private schools than in public schools.
If I am correct in that assumption, then all that "opulance" is being paid for by the parents through fees and contributions.
If that is so, nobody in a private school is taking anything away from those in a public school.
However, the state governments, who are not topping up the standard federal contribution as they are supposed to do, may be doing so.
I don't think private schools get any state money, despite the fact that their student's parents pay state taxes just like everyone else.
Do you have any information that suggests I am incorrect in my assumptions?

[Wedgie]

Sorry Wedgie & Psyber, we’ve heard the Liberal spin on all these old arguments too many times
to be sucked in anymore. I'm surprised anyone still believes them. While private kids get 10 or 12
lane indoor heated swimming pools with gymnasiums, public kids are having to share basic
classroom requirements or go without.

Having visited private schools during interschool sports, I was thoroughly disgusted that ANY of
my hard earned tax dollars were supporting such mind numbing opulence. It’s bloody obscene !

Maybe public money to private schools should be decreased slowly to ease the separation
issues, but without any shadow of doubt, the private sector must be weaned off the public teat
and learn to stand on it’s own two feet. If some people want special conditions for their kids fine.
But don’t expect the rest of us to pay for it !

Sabre, I think the federal contributions to education pay no more per head for students in private schools than in public schools.
If I am correct in that assumption, then all that "opulance" is being paid for by the parents through fees and contributions.
If that is so, nobody in a private school is taking anything away from those in a public school.
However, the state governments, who are not topping up the standard federal contribution as they are supposed to do, may be doing so.
I don't think private schools get any state money, despite the fact that their student's parents pay state taxes just like everyone else.
Do you have any information that suggests I am incorrect in my assumptions?

Nup, you're spot on from my readings Psyber.

[SABRE]

Sabre, I think the federal contributions to education pay no more per head for students in private schools than in public schools.

Psyber, my point is this. I do not believe ANY money so badly needed by poor public schools
should go to the wealthy private system in any way shape or form. If you, Wedgie or others
don't see why, then we must simply agree to disagree.

[Wedgie]

Sabre, I think the federal contributions to education pay no more per head for students in private schools than in public schools.

Psyber, my point is this. I do not believe ANY money so badly needed by poor public schools
should go to the wealthy private system in any way shape or form. If you, Wedgie or others
don't see why, then we must simply agree to disagree.

We can see why, you explained that you wanted more money going to your kids education.
The only problem is if your wish was played out less money would go to your kids education.
At the moment you have $A going to the public system and $B + $C going to the private system.
A being government funding of public schools.
B being governemnt funding of private schools.
C being parent funding of private schools.

If you move $B and combine it with $A you no longer have $C having less money in the overall education system along with more kids gonig from private to public than $B would handle thus ensuring kids now in recepit of $A would get less a share.

Hope that simplifies it, although I think Ive just confused myself!

[SABRE]

Sabre, I think the federal contributions to education pay no more per head for students in private schools than in public schools.

Psyber, my point is this. I do not believe ANY money so badly needed by poor public schools
should go to the wealthy private system in any way shape or form. If you, Wedgie or others
don't see why, then we must simply agree to disagree.

We can see why, you explained that you wanted more money going to your kids education.
The only problem is if your wish was played out less money would go to your kids education.
At the moment you have $A going to the public system and $B + $C going to the private system.
A being government funding of public schools.
B being governemnt funding of private schools.
C being parent funding of private schools.

If you move $B and combine it with $A you no longer have $C having less money in the overall education system along with more kids gonig from private to public than $B would handle thus ensuring kids now in recepit of $A would get less a share.

Hope that simplifies it, although I think Ive just confused myself!

Crikey Wedgie, you're starting to sound like my algebra teacher!
Mate, I hold the unfairness of this flawed system & ideology to be self evident.
You obviously do not. Fine. Moving right along...............Hooroo.

[Jimmy_041]

SABRE - not all of us are wealthy. We make a choice and go without other things to compensate, but I see you are quite passionate about the subject.

But, if, for argument sake, 2% of my taxes go to the education system, cut my taxes by 2% as part of the package.

[Dirko]

SABRE - not all of us are wealthy. We make a choice and go without other things to compensate, but I see you are quite passionate about the subject.

But, if, for argument sake, 2% of my taxes go to the education system, cut my taxes by 2% as part of the package.

I'm with Jimmy !

A lot of funds raised by private schools are done by "P & F Groups" for example. As I'm in the Private system, do Public schools have P & F Groups that organise fund raising by such means as Quiz Nights, Dinner/Dance, Sport's Day BBQ/Drinks etc ?

I know my son's kindy we have one that organises fund raising to improve the facilities beyond what the Government provides.

[Sploosh]

The disparity between the facilities of public and private schools is ridiculous. I can see why people say "We are helping the public system by the govt also paying for private schools" but that simply smacks of self-serving justification, I believe. Some familes want all the extra sporting facilities, theatres, overseas exchange programmes, whatever, fine and good luck to them, but to expect money to come from public funds to pay for those luxuries is unfair, in my opinion.

Let's face it, if govt funding of private schools reduced substantially, resulting in private school fees being raised, most parents would NOT suddenly say "Oh, now I will send my kids to public schools". It wouldn't happen. So to pretend that the private schools are somehow helping public schools 'relieve the pressure' is fanciful.

(Hops off soap-box)

[Dirko]

Sploosh, did you read Jimmy's post ?

Why shouldn't MY tax dollars go to the school that I use, be it Private or Public ?

[Wedgie]

The disparity between the facilities of public and private schools is ridiculous. I can see why people say "We are helping the public system by the govt also paying for private schools" but that simply smacks of self-serving justification, I believe.

Mate, both of my kids go to a public school and always will and I was one that said that those who pay for extra for kids are helping the education system (ie NOT ME) so Im not sur how self-serving justification comes into it, I was just looking at the facts!

[Sploosh]

Sploosh, did you read Jimmy's post ?

Why shouldn't MY tax dollars go to the school that I use, be it Private or Public ?

Yes, I read it, and all the others, I simply didn't agree with everything. Sure, everyone has the right to use the public facilities that are provided, but if people choose to not use those facilities (i.e. go to a non-govt school) then I don't think they should expect the govt to also fund that. It's a person's right to make their own choice, but I personally feel that with exercising a right to choose a different path comes the responsibility to pay for that choice. I readily admit many disagree with this, no worries.

[Jimmy_041]

Sploosh, did you read Jimmy's post ?

Why shouldn't MY tax dollars go to the school that I use, be it Private or Public ?

Yes, I read it, and all the others, I simply didn't agree with everything. Sure, everyone has the right to use the public facilities that are provided, but if people choose to not use those facilities (i.e. go to a non-govt school) then I don't think they should expect the govt to also fund that. It's a person's right to make their own choice, but I personally feel that with exercising a right to choose a different path comes the responsibility to pay for that choice. I readily admit many disagree with this, no worries.

Good post

A couple of arguments

1. I dont expect the Govt to fund it. In fact, I expect each Labor Govt to cut it. They dont totally cut it out - why not?
2. I dont use the public school, health, transport or welfare system - why do you expect me to pay for it?

[Sploosh]

A couple of arguments

1. I dont expect the Govt to fund it. In fact, I expect each Labor Govt to cut it. They dont totally cut it out - why not?
2. I dont use the public school, health, transport or welfare system - why do you expect me to pay for it?

1. Well, we clearly agree here, although this (1st) point is not the timbre of the argument I sense from some people.

2. That's the current taxation system. I don't use any of the things you cited either, and I also don't use private schools. I don't get to say that I don't wish to pay for private schools. Well, I do get to say it on this forum, I guess. heh heh

I think this 2nd argument is a bit of a straw man. There is no mechanism to dictate that you believe, for instance, in funding de-salination plants, so are happy to pay that portion, but you don't believe in funding the maintainance of jetties, so will not pay that portion.

[Jimmy_041]

A couple of arguments

1. I dont expect the Govt to fund it. In fact, I expect each Labor Govt to cut it. They dont totally cut it out - why not?
2. I dont use the public school, health, transport or welfare system - why do you expect me to pay for it?

1. Well, we clearly agree here, although this (1st) point is not the timbre of the argument I sense from some people.

2. That's the current taxation system. I don't use any of the things you cited either, and I also don't use private schools. I don't get to say that I don't wish to pay for private schools. Well, I do get to say it on this forum, I guess. heh heh

I think this 2nd argument is a bit of a straw man. There is no mechanism to dictate that you believe, for instance, in funding de-salination plants, so are happy to pay that portion, but you don't believe in funding the maintainance of jetties, so will not pay that portion.

Yes you do - you use the public school system.

And your straw man argument actually backs up my view. There is a tenet in Australia that the Govt should contribute to the basics for all citizens, regardless of situation. If you want more, you pay for it. It is a system that works.

I got a return of 9% on my Medicare payments, but I contribute to those who need it more.

I contribute to social security and pensions even though I have my own superannuation and will never use it (hopefully), but I contribute to those who need it.

We cant pick and choose as you say - just because you dont use it, doesn't mean the nation shouldn't contribute to it.

The Labor Party is well aware that the non-funding of private services would overload the public system - it is not a fairy tale - it is the truth.

[Jimmy_041]

The disparity between the facilities of public and private schools is ridiculous. I can see why people say "We are helping the public system by the govt also paying for private schools" but that simply smacks of self-serving justification, I believe. Some familes want all the extra sporting facilities, theatres, overseas exchange programmes, whatever, fine and good luck to them, but to expect money to come from public funds to pay for those luxuries is unfair, in my opinion.

Let's face it, if govt funding of private schools reduced substantially, resulting in private school fees being raised, most parents would NOT suddenly say "Oh, now I will send my kids to public schools". It wouldn't happen. So to pretend that the private schools are somehow helping public schools 'relieve the pressure' is fanciful.
(Hops off soap-box)

Read this: http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1213157.htm

[Mic]

It annoys me that you have situations where, for example, a public school has to cut back its budget areas to be able to pay for something like a new server (so that it doesn't take students 10 minutes just to log onto a computer) while there are a couple private schools in this state who have a couple million sitting in their bank accounts who clearly don't need the government funding they receive.

[Brad]

I went to public for Primary and private for High School.

On the funding issue, I heard about a story interstate where the government dried up funding to the Private System so the parents took their kids out of the private system and enrolled them all in the public system and they soon realised that they couldn't cope and put more funding out for private schools.