Howards 10th anniversary.

[am Bays]

Yeah, Good bloke Andy, was probably still riding the same bike you saw in the 70s up the hill each day to work. I think he left the Flinders Uni Union in 1998 after a dispute with the then union executive. I'll stand correct on that both reason and date.

[mrjbeam1981]

not fair is being born in 1960 and waiting seven years to become a citizen of this country

[am Bays]

not fair is being born in 1960 and waiting seven years to become a citizen of this country

If you're refering to somone born at Papunya, Yuendumu, Kintore, Mt Allan etc in the NT I think you might mean eight years.

Duncs 7, seriously hang in there brother get a job teaching in those communities, with the subsidised rent, power etc, zone A tax concessions and isolation allowance of the NT Government you'll have that HECS debt paid off in no time. Best of all you'll have stories to tell your mates at Elizabeth about what it is really like out their with the Walpiri mob, that will have their jaws dragging on the ground........

[Leaping Lindner]

As opposed to "The Advertiser", "The Daily Telegraph" and "The Herald Sun" which all contain fine upstanding and credible journalism, and are non-bias and balanced. With all issues discussed therein throughlly researched.
As Punk Rooster said propaganda is dished out by everyone.

Couldn't agree with you and Punky more....

However, I used to have a good chuckle at the diatribe in GLW and the great student rag of Flinders, The Empire Times

If I'd believed my first edition of GLW in 1990, I and the rest of us would be dead by now as armageddon was fast approaching due to all out US nuclear imperialsm!!!

GLW used to be called "Direct Action" it was the newspaper of the Socialist Youth Alliance, when socialism went out of fashion they became Green - I visited a number of socialist countries in the 1980s they certainly were not green! I remember the good old Empire Times a bloke called Andy McHugh used to print it in the early 70s. Flinders was an interesting place then, right wingers were members of the Communist Party of Australia. Students were not whinging wimps like they are today. Excuse my cynicism those left wingers of the 70s (communists/socialists whatever) are todays establishment. Nothing converts a socialist to a capitalist quicker than a few dollars

I know Andy. He use to do all the printing of the album covers for Greasy Pop Records in the early to mid 80's.

[JK]

Seriously I have major troubles hearing most Australians, particularly those like I who have been fortunate to have tertiary education in whatever form, saying 'Life's not fair"

Not fair is going to school on the West Bank and being picked off by a snipers bullet or sitting next to some psuedo follower of Allah who wears a thick coat in summer on an Israeli bus......

Not fair is having a diet of half a cup of maize or cous cous morning and night for most of your life in war torn Africa......

Not fair is tending you parents rice paddy field and stepping on an old abandoned mine.........

Not fair is eaking a living on the rubbish tips of India and the Phillipines from the age of four.....

Not fair is caring for your younger brothers and sisters after your parents have died of AIDS......

Like it or lump it this is a lucky country.......

Post of the year Sadly explains so many of the problems within society!!

[Booney]

Seriously I have major troubles hearing most Australians, particularly those like I who have been fortunate to have tertiary education in whatever form, saying 'Life's not fair"

Not fair is going to school on the West Bank and being picked off by a snipers bullet or sitting next to some psuedo follower of Allah who wears a thick coat in summer on an Israeli bus......

Not fair is having a diet of half a cup of maize or cous cous morning and night for most of your life in war torn Africa......

Not fair is tending you parents rice paddy field and stepping on an old abandoned mine.........

Not fair is eaking a living on the rubbish tips of India and the Phillipines from the age of four.....

Not fair is caring for your younger brothers and sisters after your parents have died of AIDS......

Like it or lump it this is a lucky country.......

Post of the year Sadly explains so many of the problems within society!!

And thats the way it was..................................

[Rik E Boy]

Mick “JH is a great man that's why he's PM and why his government has been in power ten years.”

Wrong. John Howard is eminently mediocre. He has stayed in power for ten years because the ALP has become an unelectable rabble. If you want a great Prime Minister, I suggest you look up the name John Curtin.

Mick “Labor has lost the plot they are too interested in "scandals" such as children overboard, AWB etc”

Every opposition is interested in ‘scandals’ as it their job to do so. If Labor does NOT make the government accountable for kickbacks and outright lies told to the public, they are simply not doing their job. Back in the 70’s it was the Juni Moroni affair, the Arab loans scandal. Perhaps it is only the ALP that is losing the plot when they point out these scandals in the eyes of some observers.

Wedgie “ I've always voted Liberal mainly because of Economic Management and taking the country forward as well as the looking after of the traditional family institution and also not letting to many bludgers leech off the welfare system”

It is perhaps time for the ALP to bring the current administration to task about just how the current budget surplus has been achieved. It is interesting to note here that Wedgie mentions the ‘bludger’ leeching of the welfare system. Australia has one of the most miserly welfare nets in the western world and the myth of the welfare cheat is a handy scapegoat and target for reducing government expenditure. Howard’s latest target is people who care for those with a disability those bludging bastards. Funding has been cut back or responsibility devolved to State Government for Health, Education and the Environment while our roads continue to be crap and Government assets reduced by privatisation. It is easier to have money in the bank when you don’t provide any services. While privatisation is good for the government’s bottom line, it increases the cost of services and reduces the rate of service.

As for Howard bringing the country forward that is an interesting point also. Child care continues to be unsubsidised to any real degree, making it increasingly unaffordable. I severely doubt whether the Howard government wants female participation in the workforce and would welcome the return to traditional values of the Menzies era. Aboriginal affairs is another area where this country has regressed under the current regime as is foreign policy. Howard has bought into the new Vietnam just as eagerly as Holt did before him. The only thing missing is a catchy slogan.. ‘Up our tush with George W Bush’.

Wedgie “Not for that last reason but because of the Industrial Laws brought in by Howard will mean next Federal election will be the first time I vote Labor.”

This is the ALP’s chance to redress its big weakness….a lack of definable policies and any real independent stance on an important issue that affects people’s lives. Regardless of whom you vote or once voted for or what colour your political stripe is, democracy needs an effective opposition and a real choice at the ballot box.


Mick: “Simply look at the statistics in Newspoll, Gallop wherever you like, it's there in black and white. There was another poll done recently 32% of the those questioned believed that JH was the greatest Australian Prime Minister after 1950. Interestingly Hawke was rated 2nd at 16% anf JH's hero and mentor Robert Menzies at third. What amazes me about centre-LEFT people is their incredible capacity for self deception.”

What is often not in black and white in these polls is the sample size. No matter what the poll is about a small sample size means that the results are not particularly credible or relevant. Who needs self deception when the mainstream media can publish an irrelevant poll and have the punters gobble it up with their breakfast?

Coorong ; “You know I really do love politics, discussing and debating. Never argue though. Yet to find a labour supporter with enough intelligence to construct an argument”

In other words, if someone disagrees with you, then that person would lack intelligence. Judging by that comment, I’d suggest you wouldn’t recognise an intelligent point of view even if was presented to you.

Tassie: “… as a Lib voter I have to admit I have some concerns about the new IR laws as I understand them. However that understanding is based on the popular media reports which you have to take with a grain of salt as they are always tailored to suit they perception of public opinion i.e will write what they think people want to read not necessarily the facts. That is the same for both sides of politics both the libs and labour get they rough end of the pineapple on particular issues but that is the subject for another thread....

That is why I am waiting to see what transpires when the new laws come into being to basically suck it and see. For some people they will be better off as employers will be able to pay more than the award to attract workers to their company but I am concerned that new employees may be getting shafted for no better reason than to make profits for unscrupulous employers.

My attitude is tempered by the fact that the GST was suspposed to be this big bad monster but in reality it has had bugger all effect on our lives for the majority of people that I live, work and socialise with.

The proof will be in the eating I susppose”

This is a good comment (as usual from Tassie) talking about the two most contentious achievements of the Howard government. Let’s start with the GST. The GST, a consumption based tax was brought in as a model of a fairer tax system as in theory people with more money would consume more goods and effectively contribute more the nation's fiscal position. However, the final piece of the puzzle that was to lessen the burden on low income people was the introduction of tax cuts which were of course delayed while the GST was brought in promptly. The promised tax cuts have added up to bugger all so the GST is double dipping at it’s finest. Ebenezer Scrooge would be proud of this creation and the way that this has been accepted by an apathetic electorate would have delighted Howard and Costello. The GST might not have an effect on Tassie and friends but not everyone is quite so lucky.

As for sucking it and seeing..again the IR reforms will disadvantage those without the capacity to effectively bargain for their own rights. Divide and conquer is one of the oldest strategies one can employ as Menzies would have known when the ALP and DLP presented a divided opposition and a walk up start to office. The last thing the Howard government wants is for its cronies in big business to be disturbed by a united union movement arguing for worker’s rights. Yes, there has been a lot of propaganda, pro and con about the IR reforms but the ‘new’ reforms have been a part of the Liberal Parry’s industrial relations agenda from day one in 1996 when it introduced the workplace relations bill.

Politics is a dangerous topic to discuss at any time and this thread has been fascinating and quite heated at times. Remember that democracy needs debate and discussion and looking at the lop-sided nature of this thread I fear that this government has sold its product beautifully. As for the proof in the eating..now that the Liberals have such a majority in the senate we will see if this government really is a gun administration or whether it will succumb to arrogance as the Keating administration did before it.

My worries about the current administration include the creation of the detention camps (but that’s ok because they aren’t white), the culture of blame on disadvantaged members of society, the unequal burden of the current tax system and the fact that our troops are stationed in Iraq and continue to be so when it is well documented that there are no WMD in the country and that the US had no real intelligence regarding Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion.

The war on terror is being used as a tool of fear just as communism was the generation before. I find Howard’s willingness to follow George W Bush to be quite frightening. Bush now wants us to sell Uranium to friggin India. I know Howard is against this and if he can stand up to Bush, who is in charge of more WMD’s than anyone on the planet on this issue, I might begin to agree with Mick’s assertion that John Howard might indeed be a great man.

regards,

REB

[duncs7]

Here here REB.
Beautiful reply. Loved reading it.

[mick]

Here here REB.
Beautiful reply. Loved reading it.

Yes, you should take note, no personal abuse, simply because someone doesn't agree with your view. In any case I stand by my original statements. You still havn't answered my question of what degree you are doing to incur an almost $100,000 HECS debt? Medicine, Law???

[duncs7]

Seriously I have major troubles hearing most Australians, particularly those like I who have been fortunate to have tertiary education in whatever form, saying 'Life's not fair"

Not fair is going to school on the West Bank and being picked off by a snipers bullet or sitting next to some psuedo follower of Allah who wears a thick coat in summer on an Israeli bus......

Not fair is having a diet of half a cup of maize or cous cous morning and night for most of your life in war torn Africa......

Not fair is tending you parents rice paddy field and stepping on an old abandoned mine.........

Not fair is eaking a living on the rubbish tips of India and the Phillipines from the age of four.....

Not fair is caring for your younger brothers and sisters after your parents have died of AIDS......

Like it or lump it this is a lucky country.......

I dont for 1 atto-second ever think that Australia owes me a living or that we arent the lucky country.
Im so thankful my family came here from Scotland before i was born because i freakin love this country.
My point is we could be so much better. And JH and his fuc$#@$@ked up government will in future generations will be looked upon in a very bad light, mark my words.
And the main problem with the Libs is they are not held accountable by Labor.

--Great opposition = Great Government.

Its the same in SA, Labor promised it all to us but because the opposing Liberals are bloody useless, Labor have started slipping.

And to anyone knocking me for having a whinge, Im a lefty Uni Student i can bloody well whinge whenever i want!

[mick]

And to anyone knocking me for having a whinge, Im a lefty Uni Student i can bloody well whinge whenever i want!

Absolutely

[duncs7]

Here here REB.
Beautiful reply. Loved reading it.

Yes, you should take note, no personal abuse, simply because someone doesn't agree with your view. In any case I stand by my original statements. You still havn't answered my question of what degree you are doing to incur an almost $100,000 HECS debt? Medicine, Law???

Education/Psycology double degree with 2 years worth of xtra professional pathways options which are about is about $16,000 on top of the normal HECS amount most people doing the double will occur. Which is my choice so im not complaining about it. Also including USASA costs and text books which because of the subsidy cuts will cost a few thousand by the end of my degree.
My issue is not what i pay myself its what anyone has to pay to get a rewarding degree in the"lucky country". It doesnt have to be this way.