Evolution V Religion

[Pseudo]

the difference being the bible never states that the Earth is the centre of the universe,

Ecclesiastes 1:5
"The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises."
Psalms 19:4-6
"In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat."
-> the sun moves around the Earth

1 Chronicles 16:30
"tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved."
Psalms 104:5
"Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken."
-> The Earth is fixed

Therefore, according to literal interpretation of the Bible, the Earth is at the centre of the solar system.

that 'belief' wasn't just the church but the whole world had subscribed to it.

And with very good reason, since those who most vocally disagreed with the church ran the risk of being burned as heretics.

those revelations did not conflict what the bible says therefore the belief's had no need to evolve, just personal understanding...

"The bible wasn't wrong. Us Mere Mortals (tm) just read it wrongly. Our bad."

Glad to see that you at least allow for development of personal understanding. What a shame that so many other religious people choose not to develop their understanding of His universe, but rely on some dodgy interpretations of an archaic text.

[Zelezny Chucks]

No one is guaranteed a deathbed you are correct but if that is the case then a lot of good christians shall not make it into heaven as I would think that at one stage or another we have all sinned regardless of how piuous you are. Remember, Jealousy is a sin. If you aren't able to repent your sins in front of god your screwed.

As for the contradictions I will list a couple that have been outlined to me.

For or against?
MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(not with is against)

MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
(not with is for)

LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
(not with is for)

Which is right?

In the same way you are arguing that who are we to say you are wrong about the existence of god without proof, you are also wrong in denying the results of science in the same way. Science has a lot more tangible evidence to believe than Religion does.

firstly, yes i'm sure there are many 'Christians' who have missed the boat because of an unrepented of sin or two, this is an unfortunate thing. this is why we must live in total obedience to Christ. the way i look at it is this;

at the beach we have flags to show the safe areas to swim. if you stay inside the flags you have nothing to worry about, as soon as you stray from that you put yourself at risk. God's Word is exactly the same, it is not a burden or a set of rules to follow but it is a safe area. if you live your life inside these boundaries then you have nothing to worry about.

secondly they aren't contradictions, read them again...

I don't deny the results of scientific tests, however when talking of the creation of the universe and the evolution of man theory there are ALWAYS assumptions made, The scientific method makes two general assumptions, we have never seen an exception to either of these

1. Any phenomena can be understood as an effect of the laws of nature.
2. The laws of nature are the same everywhere, no exceptions.

As a result, the scientific method cannot disprove the existence of God or anything supernatural. The method requires that we assume He doesn't exist as He is an exception to the rule.

this is another gripe I have. Religous people don't offer explanations just say your wrong read it again. Explain to me how they come to the same answer and I will accept they may not be contradictions every way I read it the first example is different to the second two.

Another example of contradiction

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."

Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

But of course I must just be reading what is written not what the Church wants me to believe.

[nuggety goodness]

For or against?
MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(not with is against)

MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
(not with is for)

LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
(not with is for)

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."

Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

But of course I must just be reading what is written not what the Church wants me to believe.

ok explanation...

the first three show this;

Matt 12:30 - not with me is against me, straight forward
Mark 9:40 - not against us is for us
Luke 9:50 - again, not against us is for us

i see that as all the same, he that is not against us is for us and he that is not for us is against us...

the second example talks about two different things.

Matt 5:16 talks about being a testimony on the Earth, the scripture preceding this talks about Christians being the light of the world, a lampstand is not hidden but put so everyone can benefit from it's light. Jesus is saying that people should be able to recognise that God is in our lives by observing the way we live.

Matt 6:3-4 talks about money and also good works (charitable deeds), but it talks about the motivation behind it. if you are doing things to be recognised by men (let's face it everyone does) then you have your reward whereas if you do it so that God is glorified He will bless you. example, if there is someone who is struggling for coin and you know about it, we are told to help the poor. if i went and gave them $100 right and made sure people saw it then God says i have my reward, whereas if i gave it to them without anyone knowing, even them sometimes, the bible says God will reward me openly.

[shoe boy]

What are your thoughts on Adam shagging his sister Eve.

[Zelezny Chucks]

"He that is not with me is against me" Anyone who does not say they are with is against.


"And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us" Anyone who doesn't say they are against is with.

The first statement suggests that whoever is not for you is against you, the second obviously says if they are not openly against you they are for you, I fail to see how this can be interpreted in a way that doesn't contradict.

But I guess that is Blind Faith isn't it.

[The Sleeping Giant]

[Dog_ger]

Pity there was no vote on this topic....

I am an evo...

[whufc]

I believe in make belive things like santa, easter bunny, God, tooth fairy, eskimos.

[Mr Beefy]

What are your thoughts on Adam shagging his sister Eve.

She was looking pretty hot in just a couple of fig leaves, but wasn't she just a rib or something?

[Jimmy_041]

Gee, I'm glad I haven't seen this topic before - I could pi$$ off 2 more classes of people

[The Sleeping Giant]

The microphone is yours

[story of my life]

I believe in make belive things like santa, easter bunny, God, tooth fairy, eskimos.

The easter bunny told me there is no such thing as santa

[nuggety goodness]

Wow, this is a blast from the past!

i never answered ZC's questions, both of those scriptures (wherever they are from, can you give me some chapter and verses?) say nothing about declarations of allegiance...

Round 2 anyone?

[Q.]

[HH3]

[nuggety goodness]

a little famliar in adelaide lately huh...

interesting crew that street church...

[Wedgie]

This sign put me off becoming religious.

[HH3]

Louie Theroux did a good doco on that family, then went back a few years later to see how they are now...very interesting

[Zelezny Chucks]

Louie Theroux did a good doco on that family, then went back a few years later to see how they are now...very interesting

Saw that Doco absolutely crazy some of the opinions they had, very family guy with racist, homophobic rants but they were dead serious.

Big fan of some of his other work as well, not afraid to take the piss out of them to there faces.

[nuggety goodness]

This sign put me off becoming religious.

hmmm... someone had a brain fart!