Things that give you the sh1ts

[MW]

When you pay people $70-80k per year to screw two panels together, what do you expect. Some are getting 6 figures when you include overtime.

Unions have a lot to answer for the decline in the manufacturing industry.

A simplistic view, not without merit and I tend to agree with you, but a simplistic view nonetheless.

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products, but we don't want the other end either.

A happy medium is needed. Badly.

[MW]

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products

Spot on. Without unions, this would be the norm.

Bullshit.
It's one thing to protect their members rights to decent wages, another is to make those wages inflated so high that it is too expensive to manufacture in Australia.

[Booney]

When you pay people $70-80k per year to screw two panels together, what do you expect. Some are getting 6 figures when you include overtime.

Unions have a lot to answer for the decline in the manufacturing industry.

A simplistic view, not without merit and I tend to agree with you, but a simplistic view nonetheless.

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products, but we don't want the other end either.

A happy medium is needed. Badly.

Too late, she cried.

Once the infrastructure ( think Tonsley ) is gone, no directors in their right mind will go into a start up manufacturing business in SA. It's just no viable.

[Booney]

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products

Spot on. Without unions, this would be the norm.

Bullshit.
It's one thing to protect their members rights to decent wages, another is to make those wages inflated so high that it is too expensive to manufacture in Australia.

Wages are just the tip of the manufacturing iceberg. Transport logistics, power supply, raw material costs, all of these are just as important as the wages of the workers and all of these contribute to a world class price being attached to below world class products. ie - You'd pay $80k for a BMW before you'd pay $80k for a dunny door.

[Lightning McQueen]

Not necessarily greed at play, likely just the pricing model required to stay afloat (obviously could always question their cost base, as with any organisation)

You see it at footy clubs etc.

I recall going to the Gepps Cross canteen to buy us all a can and something to eat, once I seen the price of the can I stopped right there and bought one for us all to share and no food, it was going to cost near $25 for three of us to have a drink and a pie or hot dog, should have been closer to $15 then they would've had my money.

Seeing pies for $4.50 is bullshit, the library near TTP had them for $4.50 the other day and sauce an extra 50 cents, seriously?

[JK]

Not necessarily greed at play, likely just the pricing model required to stay afloat (obviously could always question their cost base, as with any organisation)

You see it at footy clubs etc.

I recall going to the Gepps Cross canteen to buy us all a can and something to eat, once I seen the price of the can I stopped right there and bought one for us all to share and no food, it was going to cost near $25 for three of us to have a drink and a pie or hot dog, should have been closer to $15 then they would've had my money.

Seeing pies for $4.50 is bullshit, the library near TTP had them for $4.50 the other day and sauce an extra 50 cents, seriously?

Canteens and the like are often difficult to make enough to justify opening (depending on how well other sources of revenue perform, volunteer availability etc I guess). Seems many are "leased" out on an annual basis now.

[Brodlach]

Pies @ $4.50 is ok, to buy something like like from Villis or Balfours costs around the $2.90 mark for a retailer


$4 for a can of drink is ridiculous though, even buying direct the cost is around the $1.20 mark

[HH3]

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products

Spot on. Without unions, this would be the norm.

Unions are to blame for Holdens. I know of guys that were on a broom most of their shift earning $60k+ by the time they got made redundant. That's all on the unions.

They fought for pay increases, got them, then fought again for higher pay increases.

I know of people that were on ridiculous money, thought they had job security and racked up huge mortgages and car loans, only to price themselves out of their own jobs, and lost it all.

Now they're 35 living with their parents, trying to pay back what's left of the finance they couldn't recoup by selling their shit off.

[MW]

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products

Spot on. Without unions, this would be the norm.

Bullshit.
It's one thing to protect their members rights to decent wages, another is to make those wages inflated so high that it is too expensive to manufacture in Australia.

Wages are just the tip of the manufacturing iceberg. Transport logistics, power supply, raw material costs, all of these are just as important as the wages of the workers and all of these contribute to a world class price being attached to below world class products. ie - You'd pay $80k for a BMW before you'd pay $80k for a dunny door.

Wages are factored into all those things you mentioned (except for raw material costs).

[Lightning McQueen]

Pies @ $4.50 is ok, to buy something like like from Villis or Balfours costs around the $2.90 mark for a retailer


$4 for a can of drink is ridiculous though, even buying direct the cost is around the $1.20 mark

Yeah, I can't believe they are around the $3 mark in supermarkets.............cold.

I see a lot of deli's around my area that do the pie and coke deal for around $5

[Booney]

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products

Spot on. Without unions, this would be the norm.

Unions are to blame for Holdens. I know of guys that were on a broom most of their shift earning $60k+ by the time they got made redundant. That's all on the unions.

They fought for pay increases, got them, then fought again for higher pay increases.

I know of people that were on ridiculous money, thought they had job security and racked up huge mortgages and car loans, only to price themselves out of their own jobs, and lost it all.

Now they're 35 living with their parents, trying to pay back what's left of the finance they couldn't recoup by selling their shit off.

I disagree, Holdens are to blame for Holdens, then trade agreements, then Unions.

General Motors were 20 years behind European ( and some Asian ) car manufacturers, they ( GM ) thought we'd all be driving the Aussie dream V8 for ever, at least they were still thinking that in the 1990's. Come the turn of the century the Cruze was going to be the saviour, but it was all too late.

When the consumer got wise to the world and the cost of living a $40,000 Commodore with 3.6lt V6 became a luxury item, not the first choice for car buyers. GM didn't move with the times.

Trade agreements made it easier for the consumer to buy little Miss a Hyundai Excel in 1997 for next to nothing and run it on $15 bucks a week. The consumer wasn't worried about the longevity of the car, pricing meant 5 years was long enough out of a heap of shit and on we move.

Perhaps, it could be argued, the unions put a nail in the coffin but the casket maker was knocking up some bits of plywood back before the Sydney Olympics.

[Lightning McQueen]

In reality we wouldn't want Australian workers being paid $3 and hour to risk their lives running dilapidated machinery to make sub standard products

Spot on. Without unions, this would be the norm.

Unions are to blame for Holdens. I know of guys that were on a broom most of their shift earning $60k+ by the time they got made redundant. That's all on the unions.

They fought for pay increases, got them, then fought again for higher pay increases.

I know of people that were on ridiculous money, thought they had job security and racked up huge mortgages and car loans, only to price themselves out of their own jobs, and lost it all.

Now they're 35 living with their parents, trying to pay back what's left of the finance they couldn't recoup by selling their shit off.

I disagree, Holdens are to blame for Holdens, then trade agreements, then Unions.

General Motors were 20 years behind European ( and some Asian ) car manufacturers, they ( GM ) thought we'd all be driving the Aussie dream V8 for ever, at least they were still thinking that in the 1990's. Come the turn of the century the Cruze was going to be the saviour, but it was all too late.

When the consumer got wise to the world and the cost of living a $40,000 Commodore with 3.6lt V6 became a luxury item, not the first choice for car buyers. GM didn't move with the times.

Trade agreements made it easier for the consumer to buy little Miss a Hyundai Excel in 1997 for next to nothing and run it on $15 bucks a week. The consumer wasn't worried about the longevity of the car, pricing meant 5 years was long enough out of a heap of shit and on we move.

Perhaps, it could be argued, the unions put a nail in the coffin but the casket maker was knocking up some bits of plywood back before the Sydney Olympics.

Do you remember the commodore advert "The lion will roar in 84"?

[Booney]

Wages are factored into all those things you mentioned (except for raw material costs).

But the union attached to Holdens don't control the wages of the truckies driving the parts in from Melbourne, of the cost of the diesel he fills his truck with, or the price of electricity in any of the workshops contributing to the process.

I bet, I know, there were parts suppliers taking advantage of workers in the supply chain to Holdens. I was once part of it, looking at the bigger picture there's no denying unions played a role, but to think it was them alone is just, IMO, not right.

[MW]

No of course they are not solely to blame. State government have a lot to answer for on cost of doing business in SA.
I mean ffs when a group of the main electricity users need to get together to negotiate their own electricity rates, it's a joke.

[Lightning McQueen]

Wages are factored into all those things you mentioned (except for raw material costs).

But the union attached to Holdens don't control the wages of the truckies driving the parts in from Melbourne, of the cost of the diesel he fills his truck with, or the price of electricity in any of the workshops contributing to the process.

I bet, I know, there were parts suppliers taking advantage of workers in the supply chain to Holdens. I was once part of it, looking at the bigger picture there's no denying unions played a role, but to think it was them alone is just, IMO, not right.

Do you think that General Motors wouldn't have thought that over time the amount of industrial action and bullshit negotiations that have come form the Elizabeth plant may have played a major role in the over-all decision for the key stakeholders?

Even Holden employee's admit that they made ridiculous demands and expected far too much without thinking of the long term repercussions, all these small victories have taken their toll.

CCA are another company that pay extremely well to unskilled employees, my advice is to beware if your factory workers are on high incomes, I know ours are and it is somewhat concerning.

[Lightning McQueen]

Wages are factored into all those things you mentioned (except for raw material costs).

But the union attached to Holdens don't control the wages of the truckies driving the parts in from Melbourne, of the cost of the diesel he fills his truck with, or the price of electricity in any of the workshops contributing to the process.

I bet, I know, there were parts suppliers taking advantage of workers in the supply chain to Holdens. I was once part of it, looking at the bigger picture there's no denying unions played a role, but to think it was them alone is just, IMO, not right.

That is why they built the bridge over Kettering Road and was the birth of Edinburgh Parks Industrial zone, the majority of those companies were feeder companies to Holdens.

[Booney]

Wages are factored into all those things you mentioned (except for raw material costs).

But the union attached to Holdens don't control the wages of the truckies driving the parts in from Melbourne, of the cost of the diesel he fills his truck with, or the price of electricity in any of the workshops contributing to the process.

I bet, I know, there were parts suppliers taking advantage of workers in the supply chain to Holdens. I was once part of it, looking at the bigger picture there's no denying unions played a role, but to think it was them alone is just, IMO, not right.

Do you think that General Motors wouldn't have thought that over time the amount of industrial action and bullshit negotiations that have come form the Elizabeth plant may have played a major role in the over-all decision for the key stakeholders?

Even Holden employee's admit that they made ridiculous demands and expected far too much without thinking of the long term repercussions, all these small victories have taken their toll.

CCA are another company that pay extremely well to unskilled employees, my advice is to beware if your factory workers are on high incomes, I know ours are and it is somewhat concerning.

( Bold ) - Absolutely it did, no question, haven't said it played no part, but in classic spin GM use that as their headline act instead of putting their hand up and taking some of the blame. Ultimately though, why would they? There's no sentiment in business, they don't owe SA or the workers anything.

( Italic ) - If you can find people who will work for "unders" and still produce you a quality product, I wish you well. I know you're in manufacturing, like I am, how hard does your company find it to find good people? Do you have a high turn over rate of staff?

[MW]

Define 'unders'....
Being paid an appropriate wage for unskilled labour is common sense, not 'unders'.

[mighty_tiger_79]

You get what you pay for

[heater31]

Define 'unders'....
Being paid an appropriate wage for unskilled labour is common sense, not 'unders'.

Getting paid $80,000 to lean on a broom is overs......$50,000 is probably more appropriate