capitol punishment

[PhilG]

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[TroyGFC]

I thinks should bring the boot in, ie Simpson episode!!
Execute crims like sex crimes offenders ie Von Einem.

[Brad]

Bring Capital Punishment back! People like Martin Bryant don't deserve to live and are costing society far too many $$

[Pseudo]

What you're suggesting is physical pain - which I do not advocate.

So you're saying the lethal injection is the way to go.

I suppose you are against punishing naughty children in some minor psychological way?

Nope. But then I'm not against administering a deserved smack either. However I fail to see the connection between a naughty child and, say, a serial rapist & murderer. Try to maintain a sense of proportion.

I don't see that the notion of civility has any part in the debate. Civility merely determines how you off 'em, not if you off 'em. The best argument against putting riffraff to death is simply that there is no margin for error.

[rod_rooster]

What you're suggesting is physical pain - which I do not advocate.

So you're saying the lethal injection is the way to go.

A lot of research has been undertaken and i've seen quite a bit of detail of methods on execution and lethal injection has not been proven as painless. Not as obviously barbaric as other methods but nonetheless to consider it painless would be guessing. The trauma it causes to the human body would certainly challenge the idea that it is a pain free way to go.

[Pseudo]

A lot of research has been undertaken and i've seen quite a bit of detail of methods on execution and lethal injection has not been proven as painless. Not as obviously barbaric as other methods but nonetheless to consider it painless would be guessing. The trauma it causes to the human body would certainly challenge the idea that it is a pain free way to go.

No kidding? I'd have thought it hard to feel pain when one has been rendered unconscious. I guess there is really only one way to find out, but it would be a little hard to report the experience without the aid of a good spirit medium.

Regardless, this confuses the question of "should" with the question of "how".

"should", I admit, is a grey question. Personally I have no qualms about the termination of the lives of those who would only use that life to commit violent crimes against other humans. The greyness comes in deciding how a felon meets that criterion. There can be no margin for error. I don't see that a death penalty could ever be applied unless there was clear guilt of the offence, and clear evidence that the perpetrator would certainly commit further similar crimes if given the chance.

[PhilG]

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[Pseudo]

Personally I have no qualms about the termination of the lives of those who would only use that life to commit violent crimes against other humans.

That makes you just as bad as them, Pseudo.

And if I instead wished prolonged psychological pain upon them - as you do - I'd be somehow better than them?

[JK]

What you're suggesting is physical pain - which I do not advocate.

So you're saying the lethal injection is the way to go.

A lot of research has been undertaken and i've seen quite a bit of detail of methods on execution and lethal injection has not been proven as painless. Not as obviously barbaric as other methods but nonetheless to consider it painless would be guessing. The trauma it causes to the human body would certainly challenge the idea that it is a pain free way to go.

Perhaps they really don't sterilize them?

[therisingblues]

Letting them rot in jail until they die 30 or more years later is a hefty expense for the state.

And completely justified.

Don't use that as an excuse for legal murder, Sploosh. It makes the law makers no better than the criminals. A truly civilised society doesn't engage in tit for tat measures unless it's given up. And a society that gives up is a society that is doomed.

The most appropriate punishment for the worst sort of criminal is pain. And nothing is more painful than deprivation of their freedom for the term of their natural life - and utter isolation.

Death is quick - and therefore not an appropriate punishment.

I remember reading/ hearing somewhere that it actually costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them locked up for the rest of their lives. Something about court costs and needing it to be proved beyond any doubt. I will of course need to find facts to back this up...

I've heard the same thing Bay Girl. I alos don't have the evidence to back that up, but from what I understand a "good" lawyer can usually draw a trial out for at least 10 years or so through appeals, the list of which includes the mental condition at the time of commiting the crime, the mental condition of the condemned now (as in "unfit for execution"), proving beyond a reasonable doubt, appeal to the governor, putting the system on trial (includeds "appealing against the penalty" but I think there have been more severe attacks on the legal system during the course of these trials), any introduction of new evidence can start the whole process over again, and there's loads more. If you add the cost of all those appeals together with the amount of time the condemned spends in prison waiting for it all to happen anyway, the extra security required for the whole ordeal and whatever other costs that are specific to death penalty trials, I think you can understand how it could be more expensive.

[TroyGFC]

i like the idea of throwing them (without shoes) in the back of the truck with metal checker plate with a fire underneath. It works in South Africa!!

[therisingblues]

Personally I have no qualms about the termination of the lives of those who would only use that life to commit violent crimes against other humans.

That makes you just as bad as them, Pseudo.

And if I instead wished prolonged psychological pain upon them - as you do - I'd be somehow better than them?

I think we are crossing some sort of sacred line when we, as a state begin taking lives of people that have otherwise been removed from society and are under our control.
I agree that a life time of psychological pain is just the antidote for taking another's life. Many criminals during their life sentences have reflected on what they did, and apologised for their crimes. I know we could debate their sincerity and their motives, but I put that success rate up against all those that were executed in the name of justice, how many of them have recanted their crimes and apologised to their victims/society?

[therisingblues]

Yep, all for it. Sturt should have been SHOT for impersonating a football team in the latter half of last season!

May all your descendants wear tweed and drive range rovers.

[MagicKiwi]

I voted yes. All very good points by posters but I will side today with Mr Pseudonymous. Can't let you be the only civilised murderer in here.

[JK]

I guess the other question should be, would people be prepared to flick the switch themselves ... Surely we couldn't expect to have someone disposed of if we wouldn't be prepared to do it ourself?

[whatcha got there?]

I guess the other question should be, would people be prepared to flick the switch themselves ... Surely we couldn't expect to have someone disposed of if we wouldn't be prepared to do it ourself?

exactly. however, i guess you have to put yourself into the shoes of the victims' family, im sure they would gladly flick the switch if the crime that was committed warranted that much hatred.

[PhilG]

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[Psyber]

Bring Capital Punishment back! People like Martin Bryant don't deserve to live and are costing society far too many $$

Martin Bryant was possibly suffering a marginal form of Schizophrenia before he really cracked up. There are many people out there in the community, who are lost in their mental confusion and drift around until they get triggered into acting on some delusional belief or embrace some dangerous "ism" that gets them into trouble. Many years ago they could voluntarily seek help at a psychiatric hospital, or the police could, if they recognised their aberrant thinking and behaviour, arrange their compulsary referral by a magistrate or a doctor, and for the really disturbed and potentially dangerous there was long-term accomodation. And every patient was assessed by a doctor at the hospital.

These days, since that front organisation for Scientology, The "Citizens' Commission for Human Rights" started campaigning, people have to be certainly and clearly ill and a danger "to themselves or others" before they can be held even for a short time for thorough assessment. Even, if they suspect something is wrong themselves, they get fobbed off by busy general hospital ERs, and if they get past that hurdle they may then be assessed and diagnosed by a nurse or social worker. There only see a doctor experienced in psych disorder if they get past both those barriers!

So, they wander around the community until their disorder becomes undeniable, usually after an outburst of aberrant behaviour.

I agree with "Capitol" punishment - it is those at our "Capitol" who have chosen to embrace this expedient liberalisation that let them sell off all the valuable real estate tied up in psych hospitals. Capital punishment for them would br capital!

[Wedgie]

Ive thought about this subject long and hard in the past but have still voted "unsure".
Even if 99 out of 100 people convicted of an offence punishable by death it still sits uneasy with me.
What if an innocent party is set up?
Im all for people who are definately guilty to be killed but that one in a hundred, or even a thoustand that may be innocent that gets killed really concerns me enough to not be sure about this topic.

[Ian]

should we have the death penalty fior horrendous or henius acts ???

The list of offences punishable by death would have to include supportiong the bays