Gun Laws in USA.

[Psyber]

Really? I don't know where to obtain guns in Australia.
If I lost my head the most society would have to fear from me would be a carving knife. But if I lived in the U.S I'd say the chances are I'd know of people with guns, where they keep them etc.

I do, but I don't intend to do so.
I do have a perfectly legal sword collection and a battle axe - that all started when I learned Fencing at Uni.

I must admit I'm still not happy about having to sell my Winchester lever action 22 Magnum with the Nitrogen filled scope when I no longer had a farm to justify the licence, and hand in the hollow nose copper jacketed bullets that went and it was a eautiful piece with it.
(I wasn't mucking around with those foxes hunting the new born Angora kids at the time.)

and? when my brother stopped being a garbo, he gave back the truck.

Yes, but I owned the gun and it was something of a collector's item.
I was expressing my ambivalence about parting with it not supporting the US position.
I approved the laws and complied despite my regret at parting with it.

[CENTURION]

ok, gotcha.

[The Sleeping Giant]

The pro fun groups are incredibly powerful

Damn those pro fun groups.

[mickey]

[gadj1976]

Really? I don't know where to obtain guns in Australia.
If I lost my head the most society would have to fear from me would be a carving knife. But if I lived in the U.S I'd say the chances are I'd know of people with guns, where they keep them etc.

I do, but I don't intend to do so.
I do have a perfectly legal sword collection and a battle axe - that all started when I learned Fencing at Uni.

I must admit I'm still not happy about having to sell my Winchester lever action 22 Magnum with the Nitrogen filled scope when I no longer had a farm to justify the licence, and hand in the hollow nose copper jacketed bullets that went and it was a eautiful piece with it.
(I wasn't mucking around with those foxes hunting the new born Angora kids at the time.)

and? when my brother stopped being a garbo, he gave back the truck.

Yes, but I owned the gun and it was something of a collector's item.
I was expressing my ambivalence about parting with it not supporting the US position.
I approved the laws and complied despite my regret at parting with it.

Yep, got one of them at home in the kitchen at the moment.

Somewhat more seriously, this needs to be looked at. I don't know what the answer is, but the question certainly should be, why do they need to have multiple (extremely powerful) weapons in households?

[Q.]

This goes far beyond gun laws. Unfortunately, fear and hate is deeply rooted into American culture. A country that continues to execute its citizens and nurtures a pro-war psyche will always have to deal with the legacy of it's own brutality.

[RustyCage]

The pro fun groups are incredibly powerful

Damn those pro fun groups.

Damn you autocorrect!

[The Ash Man]

This goes far beyond gun laws. Unfortunately, fear and hate is deeply rooted into American culture. A country that continues to execute its citizens and nurtures a pro-war psyche will always have to deal with the legacy of it's own brutality.

30odd states have capital punishment still.

Why don't these massacres happen in other countries with capital punishment?

[therisingblues]

This goes far beyond gun laws. Unfortunately, fear and hate is deeply rooted into American culture. A country that continues to execute its citizens and nurtures a pro-war psyche will always have to deal with the legacy of it's own brutality.

30odd states have capital punishment still.

Why don't these massacres happen in other countries with capital punishment?

I can't be bothered searching for figures now. But some of those other countries execute shitloads of people.
Massacres within themselves.

[Q.]

This goes far beyond gun laws. Unfortunately, fear and hate is deeply rooted into American culture. A country that continues to execute its citizens and nurtures a pro-war psyche will always have to deal with the legacy of it's own brutality.

30odd states have capital punishment still.

Why don't these massacres happen in other countries with capital punishment?

They do. But is it fair to compare Rwanda or Syria to the US?

The brutalisation effect of capital punishment plays only a small part in the embedding of fear and violence into American culture.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Westboro church are threatening to picket the kids funerals.

[CENTURION]

Westboro church are threatening to picket the kids funerals.

why

[The Sleeping Giant]

Media trying to link video games too the tragedy, when of course it has nothing to do with the gun culture and lack of mental health care.

[Booney]

Media trying to link video games too the tragedy, when of course it has nothing to do with the gun culture and lack of mental health care.

I wont argue one bit with the bold part, but I do believe that the desensitising of violence in video games where killing is so prevelant does have many drawbacks, especially to people that suffer from the issues you have addressed.

[whufc]

America is shite hole where money is power and everyone else can get fugged!

[tipper]

Really? I don't know where to obtain guns in Australia.
If I lost my head the most society would have to fear from me would be a carving knife. But if I lived in the U.S I'd say the chances are I'd know of people with guns, where they keep them etc.

I do, but I don't intend to do so.
I do have a perfectly legal sword collection and a battle axe - that all started when I learned Fencing at Uni.

I must admit I'm still not happy about having to sell my Winchester lever action 22 Magnum with the Nitrogen filled scope when I no longer had a farm to justify the licence, and hand in the hollow nose copper jacketed bullets that went and it was a eautiful piece with it.
(I wasn't mucking around with those foxes hunting the new born Angora kids at the time.)

and? when my brother stopped being a garbo, he gave back the truck.

Yes, but I owned the gun and it was something of a collector's item.
I was expressing my ambivalence about parting with it not supporting the US position.
I approved the laws and complied despite my regret at parting with it.

Yep, got one of them at home in the kitchen at the moment.

Somewhat more seriously, this needs to be looked at. I don't know what the answer is, but the question certainly should be, why do they need to have multiple (extremely powerful) weapons in households?

define extreemely powerful? the AR type rifle used in this, and other masacres over in the states is only a .22 cal round. nearly as small as they get. (it is actually .223, or 5.56 mm) i dont consider that powerful. in fact if hunting here in australia most shooters wouldnt use that round to take anything much bigger than a fox, or maybe some feral dogs. certainly nothing as big as a deer. it is on no way considered a high power round.

yes the AR variant rifles are semi auto (fire with each pull of the trigger until malfunction or empty magazine) which makes it easier to shoot multiple targets in a short amount of time, however there are several other types of firearm action that can be fired very nearly as fast. i have seen some utube videos of rapid fire lever action, and pump action rifles that can nearly approach the peeds of a semi auto, and in fact some people claim they can fire faster (not sure on that myself). both of those types of actions are freely available to anyone with an A or B class licence here in australia (the "lowest" level of licencing here) and can be purchased in much larger calibres also.

personally i think the us problem is one more so to do with mental health, both diagnosing and treating of problems. maybe if they had licencing, some of the problem people would be weeded out early, however i think with their history, even that step will never happen. they will certainly never get guns removed from their society to any great degree. if they try i reckoin there will be civil war.

[tipper]

From the same website.

In 1791, the U.S. adopted the Second Amendment which reads: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." And in 1792 the Congress enacted the Militia Acts of 1792, which conscripted every "free able-bodied white male citizen" into the militia and required such citizens to procure "a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball;..." (U.S. Statutes at Large, Vol. 1, 1st Session, Ch. 33)



Don't you think the "Well Regulated Malitia" should be the {Police}.

if you actually do some reading on the american second amendment it is there in case the public have to rise up against the police. their constitution was written at the end of their war for independence. they had just finished freeing themselves from english rule, and their leaders recognised that in order to "protect" themselves from unjust rule they needed to ensure that the people had the means. hence the second amendment. the militia is intended to be seperate from the government (ie not police, not army etc) and can be raised to remove any unjust government again. unlike the government here, the american founding fathers wanted the people to have the ability to rise up and remove the government if they felt it was necessary.

check out this link if you have time (its around 10 minutes long) . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MU12ensIWg

[The Sleeping Giant]

Media trying to link video games too the tragedy, when of course it has nothing to do with the gun culture and lack of mental health care.

I wont argue one bit with the bold part, but I do believe that the desensitising of violence in video games where killing is so prevelant does have many drawbacks, especially to people that suffer from the issues you have addressed.

10 years ago it was violent movies. Before that it was music. Before that it was the printed word. Funny how all those forms of entertainment are made the scapegoat, yet the one true common element still exists. Why are these incidents so common in the US? Video games are popular all over the world, yet these types of shootings only occur in the US. Martin Byrant didn't play violent video games. He was mentally ill and had access to guns though.

The thing is there is no evidence pointing to this last incident being the result of playing video games. Yet without any evidence, the (conservative) media run that line, which of course results in the easily influenced believing the lie. Which of course results in the real issue being swept under the carpet...... again.

[Sojourner]

As I recall, John Howard was only just elected when the Port Arthur massacre occured and he took action on gun laws federally and history shows he got the balance right, even the incoming ALP government when asked what they thought he had done well in his past term brought that up as something they agreed with.

So over to Obama, freshly elected with a claimed endorsement from the people for a Democrat Left Wing Government. Its his turn to actually govern their nation through this tragedy. Attempting to blame Bush or the Republican party has no merit because historical Democrat governments have been no different, as was the case in Australia. If Howard could do it there is no reason that Obama cannot. The parallels are pretty obvious, whether Obama has the ticker to stand up and actually govern remains to be seen.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Michael Moore tweeted the other day "The NRA already hate you Barack Obama, give them a reason"

The difference between Australia and the US regarding guns is massive though. We didn't feel the need or feel it was a right to own a gun.