JFK Assassination

[7-Dog]

3 of the biggest events that have occurred in the United States, have all lead to war.

Pearl Harbor, JFK & 9/11

[Hondo]

The bullet passes through the head too easily in the entry wound, therefore not creating the forward movement through momentum. But the exit wound is far more violent, and creates a release of gas (and therefore energy) in the opposite direction to where the bullet came from, therefore causing the head to move back towards where the bullet came from. Type in Penn and Teller and watermelon in youtube and it shows this (I think its Penn & Teller).

Their watermelon test didn't seem very conclusive to me and they admitted it didn't prove things one way or the other. The melon rolled off slowly to the side yet JFK's head snapped backwards very quickly. Penn & Teller seemed more in favour of the grassy knoll theory if anything as they said no explanation they had heard or their test with the melon explained why JFK's head did what it did.

Have you got a link on this gas release theory? No disrespect intended, but it sounds as convincing as that watermelon test.

[The Apostle]

The bullet passes through the head too easily in the entry wound, therefore not creating the forward movement through momentum. But the exit wound is far more violent, and creates a release of gas (and therefore energy) in the opposite direction to where the bullet came from, therefore causing the head to move back towards where the bullet came from.

Exactly!

Watch a decent copy of the Zapruder film you can clearly see the FRONT TOP RIGHT area of JFK's head getting blown out.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43ttTo

[Hondo]

On a fresh look at the Zapruder film and I have to admit there is some sort of blow out in the front of his head first and then the backwards motion could be that of a lifeless body rather than the force of a bullet. He seemed to be sitting forward with his wife cradling him after seemingly being shot through the neck and then it's possible that he just slumped back lifeless.

As someone who is a conspiracy theory sceptic every other time perhaps it's time I let this one go. It's that Oliver Stone film where Kevin Costner repeats "backwards and to the left ... backwards and to the left" that's been stuck in my head ever since I saw that film. I used to go out with someone involved in film and she told me several times to dismiss the film JFK as nothing more than an Oliver Stone fantasy.

[The Apostle]

The Warren Commission estimated that President Kennedy was 176.9 feet (53.9 m) to 190.8 feet (58.2 m) from the sixth floor corner window of the Depository when he was shot in the neck, and 265.3 feet (80.9 m) when he was shot in the head.

Using a mass produced bolt action rifle with a non-floating sporter weight barrel (Ruger M77 Hawkeye Standard Left Hand in .308 Win if ya really wanna know ) that I bought last Xmas, and using mass produced ammo and shooting from a bag rest, I can get most shots in a 2.5 inch circle shooting at a target a 100 metres away...

[The Apostle]

He seemed to be sitting forward with his wife cradling him

How close was Jackie! A foot to the left and it would of been her.

[Squawk]

On a fresh look at the Zapruder film and I have to admit there is some sort of blow out in the front of his head first and then the backwards motion could be that of a lifeless body rather than the force of a bullet. He seemed to be sitting forward with his wife cradling him after seemingly being shot through the neck and then it's possible that he just slumped back lifeless.

It could also be that the acceleration of the vehicle thrust his head backwards...?

There should be a poll with this - which conspiracy theory to you think is the most plausible?

Oswald did do it
Oswald was a patsy
The Mafia did it
Castro was behind it
Other....

[7-Dog]

On a fresh look at the Zapruder film and I have to admit there is some sort of blow out in the front of his head first and then the backwards motion could be that of a lifeless body rather than the force of a bullet. He seemed to be sitting forward with his wife cradling him after seemingly being shot through the neck and then it's possible that he just slumped back lifeless.

It could also be that the acceleration of the vehicle thrust his head backwards...?

There should be a poll with this - which conspiracy theory to you think is the most plausible?

Oswald did do it
Oswald was a patsy
The Mafia did it
Castro was behind it
Other....

[Mr66]

3 of the biggest events that have occurred in the United States, have all lead to war.

Pearl Harbor, JFK & 9/11

er...dunno about that
WW2 was already going before the States came off the bench after 7/12/41.
9/11 was spot on but JFK killing is a bit of a stretch.
The US was already in Vietnam when he was shot

[7-Dog]

3 of the biggest events that have occurred in the United States, have all lead to war.

Pearl Harbor, JFK & 9/11

er...dunno about that
WW2 was already going before the States came off the bench after 7/12/41.
9/11 was spot on but JFK killing is a bit of a stretch.
The US was already in Vietnam when he was shot

Pearl Harbor awoke the sleeping Giant and lead to the US declaring war on Japan the next day and entering the war.

JFK spoke mid-year about peace and was therefore reluctant for a war. Withdrew 1000 troops from Vietnam by the end of the year, for L.Johnson to reverse the order 4 days after his death.

[ORDoubleBlues]

Is still a part 2 of one of the documentaries to come this Tuesday night.

What I think is beyond doubt is that even if Oswald was involved it would seem there were other shooters as the official line - in the Warren Commission report - was that one bullet caused at least 3 wounds and changed directions several times and was still in pristine condition after all this!! If Oswald was involved, he was the greatest marksman the world has ever known.

The performance of Dallas DA Henry Wade was one of the disgraces of the time when he'd said on live TV that Oswald acted alone and was the killer - in most other situations you'd be upsetting due process with a comment like that and be in danger of being sacked.

As far as the ex of your's Hondo, there are some people who will only accept the official version of things no matter how ridiculous the evidence as it affects their own personal "security" and there's certainly been situations in the past where the official version of the time was later admitted to be false. Will admit that Stone does appear to stretch things a bit but as he admits himself, some of the scenes in his movie are based on what 'may have happened' as no one will ever no now what actually went on behind closed doors.

Just as a side, I bet there's still a lot of people who who don't realise that the Yanks were "unnoficailly" in Vietnam in combat since the end of WWII.

[Gozu]

I'm with David Icke, it was the Reptilians!

[Footy Chick]

I missed part 2 last night

Any idea of how I can get hold of it?

[Hondo]

As far as the ex of your's Hondo, there are some people who will only accept the official version of things no matter how ridiculous the evidence as it affects their own personal "security" and there's certainly been situations in the past where the official version of the time was later admitted to be false. Will admit that Stone does appear to stretch things a bit but as he admits himself, some of the scenes in his movie are based on what 'may have happened' as no one will ever no now what actually went on behind closed doors.

She wasn't supporting the Warren Commission's findings or the official version of events. I'm not sure what her opinion on the JFK assassination was.

Having experience in the industry, she was just warning me about Oliver Stone and his own motivations and so to keep an open mind on his version of the events.

[Barto]

The bullet passes through the head too easily in the entry wound, therefore not creating the forward movement through momentum. But the exit wound is far more violent, and creates a release of gas (and therefore energy) in the opposite direction to where the bullet came from, therefore causing the head to move back towards where the bullet came from.

Exactly!

Watch a decent copy of the Zapruder film you can clearly see the FRONT TOP RIGHT area of JFK's head getting blown out.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43ttTo

The stabilised version of that film is pretty cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozx4_4DZp38

[ORDoubleBlues]

As far as the ex of your's Hondo, there are some people who will only accept the official version of things no matter how ridiculous the evidence as it affects their own personal "security" and there's certainly been situations in the past where the official version of the time was later admitted to be false. Will admit that Stone does appear to stretch things a bit but as he admits himself, some of the scenes in his movie are based on what 'may have happened' as no one will ever no now what actually went on behind closed doors.

She wasn't supporting the Warren Commission's findings or the official version of events. I'm not sure what her opinion on the JFK assassination was.

Having experience in the industry, she was just warning me about Oliver Stone and his own motivations and so to keep an open mind on his version of the events.

That's fair enough.

We should applaud him for asking the question at least as it seem's pretty obvious that there was more than one shooter and that Helms admitted under oath that Clay Shaw (Bertrand) did work for the CIA.

[JAS]

If you're quick you can own a piece of the conspiracy...LHO's coffin is going up for auction...now wouldn't that make an interesting conversation piece...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/11886392

Regards
JAS

[7-Dog]

On the news website, there was an article about Martin Bryant's discussing how she wished that she hadn't convinced her son to plead guilty. Conspiracy theories are also something I have believed in for this tragedy.

So that got me to google up Martin Bryant and a conspiracy article.

In the article it talks about the conspiracy of the JFK assassination.
In there, but left out of the documentary. It states that they know for fact that Oswald was a patsy, as New Zealand had already printed the story that Oswald acted alone, yet he had only just been arrested.

[Hondo]

I have heard some of the Bryant conspiracy theories and find them farcical! I think the theory is that it was a govt conspiracy to bring about a change in the gun control laws. I read he was either brainwashed or didn't act alone. I have also heard that govt sharp shooters did it all and Bryant was put up as the patsy.

The recent headline was that Bryant's mother said he wasn't smart enough to plan the massacre. How smart do you have to be to walk around a tourist destination with a semi-automatic weapon with no-one having a gun to defend themselves?

Sorry, I just can't accept it.

[7-Dog]

I have heard some of the Bryant conspiracy theories and find them farcical! I think the theory is that it was a govt conspiracy to bring about a change in the gun control laws. I read he was either brainwashed or didn't act alone. I have also heard that govt sharp shooters did it all and Bryant was put up as the patsy.

The recent headline was that Bryant's mother said he wasn't smart enough to plan the massacre. How smart do you have to be to walk around a tourist destination with a semi-automatic weapon with no-one having a gun to defend themselves?

Sorry, I just can't accept it.

In the article I read, 32 people shot. A professionally trained elite gunmen kill:wound ratio in a confined space would be 1:5, Martin Bryant's was 1.66:1
http://www.whale.to/b/viallspam.html