2010 SA Road Toll

[Psyber]

I didn't say anything about having open road limits. I think the limits for our open roads are fine,
however your good self doesn't. If you wish to see yourself above the law and openly admit to breaking them
then that is your prerogative.

Just as it's my choice to call someone who deliberately breaks the rules an idiot.

If you think that's being abusive and childish then perhaps you should take a long hard look in the mirror and have a look at the
idiot staring back at you and realise that no matter how decent your car is supposed to be, nor how much training you supposedly
have had, it still means your breaking the law.

For people like you who see yourself above the law, there's always a tree with your name on it.....

No SJABC, there is occasionally a ticket with my name on it though.
As I've said in another post I've had one accident in which speed was in any way related in 45 years.
I drive below the legal limit where I think the legal limit is too high as it sometimes is on some roads in some conditions.
I drive above it where I think the limit is too low.
I take responsibility for myself thereby.

The law is arbitrary, and it is not always just and correct.
A look at history can give you a long list of laws that proved not to be as good as their supporters at the time thought.
I accept that the law applies to me, whether I agree with it or not, and that if I don't obey it I may pay the penalty.
So I don't claim to be "above the law" as you assert - I accept it is the law and any penalty it imposes.

Nothing justifies anyone calling anyone anything, just because they disagree over an issue...

[Dirko]

I take responsibility for myself thereby.

And therein is the problem. You care about yourself and take responsibility for such, but by breaking the speed limit as you see fit, you thereby have a complete disregard to other road users.....

[bayman]

Can't agree about just fixing the roads ... you should drive to the conditions, good or bad.

The state managed under 100 deaths in 2008, continuing a long term downward trend, but since last year it's been horrible.

Anyway, why is it happening? Good question and I wish I knew the answer.

i'm meaning as a start.....get rid of all the idiots on the road & it will be fine however there wouldn't be too many cars left

[Bully]

as long as we all have cars, then there will be road deaths. hard to say it but its true. you will never have a 0 road toll for a year.


1 road death a year, a decade, a century is to many.

[AFLflyer]

A couple of the veteran posters here are missing the point to a degree. the problem i think is the young inexperienced drivers and all these young lives which are continually taken from us! I believe your license should be harder to get and the power of your car (as P plate drivers) NEEDS to be limited. however i agree with SJABC if there is a law you should follow it, even if it is to set a good example for the young. Psyber i think that is where you are wrong. 50kms no longer feels slow to me in some areas, when it was originally introduced, it definitely did!

[jackpot jim]

As horrible as EVERY road death is, whats the fuss about 19 deaths in S.A. this year so far ?
By the end of the year there will be another 80 -90 more DEATHS on the road in S.A. going on averages in recent years.
Does it make people feel better if the deaths are spread out over the year to about 2 per week rather than deaths happening in clumps ? 19 in 27 days is just a blip on the radar, it will settle down in coming weeks BUT there wouldn't be a day goes by without someone being killed on the roads somewhere in Australia and worldwide i would think it would be THOUSANDS EVERY DAY.

The best we all can do is be vigilant and minimise the chance of accidents happening by driving in a safe and appropriate manner. By doing that we can minimise the road toll but it's impossible to eradicate it due to so many variables involved in driving.

The most touching road toll deaths are the ones involving innocent victims that were doing nothing wrong like the woman the other week who had a tree branch fall on her car whilst driving causing her to crash and be killed. Reading that shook me up a bit personally because it happened to me only a few weeks earlier, only difference was that i was LUCKY to come out of it unscathed although my car was a wreck.

Maybe we could also spare a thought for the thousands of animals including Koalas, kangaroos, birds, lizards, possums, rabbits, dogs, cats, peoples' pets, etc etc etc that get killed or worse still, die slow excruciating deaths every day as a result of vechile collisions on our roads.
These casualties are generally accepted as a trade off for the convenience of transport for the Human race BUT unfortunately Human casualties are also a price we HAVE to pay for the convenience.

RIP to all victims and condolences to all affected by these tradgedies.

[mal]

I would start implementing some zero tolerance laws, or enforce existing ones
Whilst driving
No eating
No drinking
No smoking
No talking on a Mobile Phone

The number 1 is smoking
Its dangerous
And worst of all the anusholes who tap thier cig ashes out the window, and then throw the butt out when they have finished smoking
Its not counted on the road death stats, but cigs have caused bushfires in the past that have claimed lives

I still see a lotta people with one hand on the wheel chatting on the phone
Utter contempt of the law in my opinion

Anyone doing the above should be fined to the limit

[Footy Chick]

Other states have stricter laws than we do when it comes to kids and driving...

ie: cant drive V8's or turbo's, can't get their licence until their older etc... probably something that SA should look at - just like a motorbike licence, kids should only be able to drive 4 cylinder cars until they're off their P's or until they're 21 or 25. I know driving a 4 cylinder isn't going to stop some people from driving like idiots but it's all a start.

Not being able to carry passengers between 11pm and 6am etc..at least they're only killing themselves then and not their mates.

I'd personally like to see boys not be able to get their licence until they're 21 but I know that'll never happen because someone will cry discrimination.

On the other end of the scale, oldies can be just as bad through poor eyesight and judgement.

[Squawk]

Take a leaf from the book of insurance companies.

Make people earn their licence and have to strive to keep it.

Have a graduated cost schedule for persons up to the age of 30 years. Make Drivers Licences renewable every year in this period, on a sliding cost scale. Eg you get your licence, it costs you $1,000 in year one (on top of normal annual fee) plus a bond of $1,000 to be forfeited if you are caught breaking a driving law, in addition to any other penalty that may be imposed. Year 5, $500 a year, unless you have broken a driving law in which case you start again until you have 10 years clean driving. By law, I mean an indictable offence, not an expiable offence.

Make people pay for their 3rd party insurance premium (in your rego) based on your driving record - ie not one price fits all.

Limit the KW of a car for young/inexperienced drivers.

Mandatory vehicle inspections for all cars more than 7 years old, or annually for all cars owned by someone under 30.

A (for alcohol) plates for people resuming driving after a drink driving offence, for the next 5 years. Not allowed to take any passengers in this period either. D plates for Drug drivers.

All persons convicted of indictable driving offences to have their names published in the paper along with their offender history.

Anyway, just a few thoughts to put out there for debate

[heater31]

When will people realise that once you are sitting in a vehicle you are not invincible?

Until they do I just hope they do not take some innocent party away from their family and if they don't and bring it upon themselves you get very little sympathy from me.


*Apologies if this sounds a little harsh but as someone who has lost people on both sides of the coin it is just how I see it


There is minimal driver theory and practical examples given to young drivers who are just starting out on various situations that you may encounter on a road. Example - what to do if a tyre explodes, animals on the road.

[Squawk]

Should add that the infamous "log book" system has IMHO totally undermined the integrity of obtaining a drivers licence.

[fisho mcspaz]

Should add that the infamous "log book" system has IMHO totally undermined the integrity of obtaining a drivers licence.

agreed!

[dedja]

Speeding on the open roads is the only one of those I've ever done since I got older and more experienced too.

And that makes it OK ? No. It just makes you an idiot.

It makes it safer than it would have been when I was inexperienced...
I've posted my arguments for why I think our open road speed limits are unreasonably low once or twice before, so I won't repeat them here.
I've also supported the reduced limits in built up areas introduced in the last few years, and obeyed them.
Calling me an idiot is technically being abusive, mildly abusive, but abusive, which is also childish.
How about you address the case for and against the present open road limits instead...

Psyber, I hear what you're saying and I've read your other posts.

The only thing I'd add is that no matter what training or experience one has, an open county road is a vastly different environment to a controlled race track or similar.

To safely avoid a collision at 100, 110, 120+ km/h is extremely difficult when the verge is not big enough, there's a drain running parallel to the road, or there's trees or fences to contend with when you run out of tarmac.

If I'm driving my family on a country road I always have these issues at the back of my mind ... after all a wife and 3 kids is a precious cargo.

I think of how am I going to stop safely if someone comes at me around the bend on the wrong side of the road. The simple answer is that in some stretches of road (in fact many) you are in the lap of the Gods. I would prefer to keep at the speed limit if only because I have a somewhat better chance at 100 or 110 than 120 or 130. I might not increase the odds but much, but it may be enough to save my family's lives.

[MatteeG]

Should add that the infamous "log book" system has IMHO totally undermined the integrity of obtaining a drivers licence.

agreed!

Sorry gang- disagree with this. The logbook option came in right as I went for my L's, as I was a year younger than most of my mates I saw both license methods in action...By doing the logbook you spend many more hours behind the wheel supervised by a driving instructor. (Unfortunately a few extra le$$on$ usually are scheduled... ). You then needed to pass a simulated test in your last lesson which tested all your parking etc plus highway driving (eg over 80 km/h). This was my experience anyway.

The old school method you could get the L's, not drive a day then fluke the test. Many of my mates fluked the test without more than a couple of back street practices under their belt...

However, I think a combination of the 2 would probably churn out the most prepared drivers.

Finally- I like the idea of limiting the power of P Plate cars, only because all I could afford as a P Plater was a 1980 corolla...served me real well for 8 years! Could still spin the wheels, but getting the old girl much above 100 was not easy. Willunga Hill was about the only exception- after taking 25 mins to get to the top

[CoverKing]

Other states have stricter laws than we do when it comes to kids and driving...

ie: cant drive V8's or turbo's, can't get their licence until their older etc... probably something that SA should look at - just like a motorbike licence, kids should only be able to drive 4 cylinder cars until they're off their P's or until they're 21 or 25. I know driving a 4 cylinder isn't going to stop some people from driving like idiots but it's all a start.

Not being able to carry passengers between 11pm and 6am etc..at least they're only killing themselves then and not their mates.

I'd personally like to see boys not be able to get their licence until they're 21 but I know that'll never happen because someone will cry discrimination.

On the other end of the scale, oldies can be just as bad through poor eyesight and judgement.

Females under the age of 21 are just as bad as males. People under the age of 21 are a lot less experienced and do not have the awareness, the control or the knowledge that the older people have.

They have the need for speed feeling and think they are invincible. It annoys the heck out of me seeing young P platers hoon around! I do think its not all P platers, and in fact, some fully licensed drivers (male and female - above 30) are just as bad with hooning. The thing is, there is not too much we can do to lower the road toll. We need parents and schools to continue to talk about safe driving. I do believe the power of a car being reduced will help to a certain extent, but the facts are, any car can go 130km/h on a side street.

[Ian]

any car can go 130km/h on a side street.

absolutely spot on, reducing the power of cars will not reduce speed

[locky801]

Most in here are right on the money, after spending many many years of my life dealing with these tragic crashes, it really comes down probably 8 times out of 10 to bad driver behaviour and irresponsibility. Look at the figures, a large majority are unforunately killed on country roads, why we ask, some roads sure are not up to the safest standards but how many kids or younger adults would know how to correct a vehicle that starts sliding out of control at high speed after hitting a dirt verge. Do they know what to do as they come around a bend or all of a sudden an animal pops out in front of you. Maybe 1/4 if we are lucky. People know that speed cameras are not out on Country roads alot and know for certain they are not out there (Country) after dark. So the attitude comes in lets put the foot down and have some fun. Tragedy waiting to happen. How do we educate the new drivers better, there are a number of school programmes run, the programme isn't pretty nor was it designed to be, but somehow the message still isn't getting across. We can say all we like about raising the age, (18 minimum IMHO) only letting them have 4 cylinder vehicles, not allowing passengers after a certain time.

You can teach people to drive and drive safely, however in some cases you cannot teach their brain to say focussed at the job at hand and in the end people lose their lives. Unfortunately there is no real solution apart from further education by us, the parents to our children, talk to them about it all the time, make them sit and watch the news when there is another tragic and senseless road death on our roads. There is not much more one can really do apart from hope and pray ech time our kids go out driving or go out with friends that they come home safely.

[Psyber]

I take responsibility for myself thereby.

And therein is the problem. You care about yourself and take responsibility for such, but by breaking the speed limit as you see fit, you thereby have a complete disregard to other road users.....

I'd dispute that.
I exercise proper care and judgement about safety for myself and others, and just don't accept arbitrary judgements by other people sitting in offices and not on the spot.
I do the same when I choose not to go as fast as the speed limit in some conditions, rather than blindly stick to the arbitrary figure simply because it is "legal".

I intend to live a long time yet so I am not going to take careless risks.
I simply don't accept that the judgement of some elected or unelected "authority" is automatically better than mine, and that I should obey authority blindly.
That path leads to "I was only following orders."

[Psyber]

A couple of the veteran posters here are missing the point to a degree. the problem i think is the young inexperienced drivers and all these young lives which are continually taken from us! I believe your license should be harder to get and the power of your car (as P plate drivers) NEEDS to be limited. however i agree with SJABC if there is a law you should follow it, even if it is to set a good example for the young. Psyber i think that is where you are wrong. 50kms no longer feels slow to me in some areas, when it was originally introduced, it definitely did!

AFL I agree with most of what you say, and I have no problem with the 50K zones. I agree with them and I obey the limit in those areas and sometimes slow down more when I see risks around.
I don't think we should automatically obey every law though, just like the anti-Vietnam protesters didn't in the past, and some union protesters now don't.
However, if you exercise your freedom to breach the law you have to be ready to accept any penalty that follows under it.
Even in the 16th and 17th century some laws were regarded as, "More honoured in the breach than the observance.." to borrow from Shakespeare.

[Psyber]

I would start implementing some zero tolerance laws, or enforce existing ones
Whilst driving
No eating
No drinking
No smoking
No talking on a Mobile Phone

The number 1 is smoking
Its dangerous
And worst of all the anusholes who tap thier cig ashes out the window, and then throw the butt out when they have finished smoking
Its not counted on the road death stats, but cigs have caused bushfires in the past that have claimed lives

I still see a lotta people with one hand on the wheel chatting on the phone
Utter contempt of the law in my opinion

Anyone doing the above should be fined to the limit

I agree.
When I drive I pay full attention to what I am doing, and I don't do any of the above when driving.