Toyota

[Booney]

have never driven a toyota ever !! have driven a magna and that was s***t with front wheel drive tended to fish tail a bit when i needed to accelerate hard so im certain toyota would be the same so i wont buy one

I've been driving Mitsi's (2 x Lancer, 1 x Verade, 1 x 380) for the last 10 years and have loved them all ... Ive never found the front wheel drive to be a problem, but I'll admit Im not the biggest car enthusiast getting around.

The biggest misconception by Aussie motorists is that cars that are front wheel drive are rubbish. It is purely our upbringing in the land of the "Big Aussie 6" ( Falcon / Commodore ) when in all reality front wheel drive vehicles are the norm for smaller to mid-size cars the world over and even larger vehicles to some extent. The only main difference being at high speed cornering. In truth front wheel drives are better out of corners but not as balanced with under steer going in.

Not sure how you get a front wheel drive to "fish tail", that is usually reserved to rear wheel drives when cornering at speed.

[Psyber]

I've driven a few front wheel drive cars but the only one I owned was a slightly hotted up Mini in the later 1970s - they were a bit primitive.
You could push it into over-steer with the accelerator and compensate by decelerating.
Judicious use of this technique could enhance the cornering control - of course if you were injudicious...

You get a similar effect with a rear engine, rear drive, car like the traditional Porsche.
[Less so in more recent models with electronic regulation.]

[dedja]

I've owned many front wheel drive cars over the years and there is only one manageable issue to speak of ... make damn sure you rotate your tyres regularly because if you don't the front pair aren't going to last long. Other than that I see no issue with them at all.

Sorry to the Holden fans, I've owned commodores and actually worked at the Elizabeth factory many years ago for 3 months during a Uni summer break and would never buy one again ... ever.

When we go on holiday I try to mix up the hire cars and I was very impressed with the Aurion last year on a 2 week trip in QLD.

[Bully]

have never driven a toyota ever !! have driven a magna and that was s***t with front wheel drive tended to fish tail a bit when i needed to accelerate hard so im certain toyota would be the same so i wont buy one

I've been driving Mitsi's (2 x Lancer, 1 x Verade, 1 x 380) for the last 10 years and have loved them all ... Ive never found the front wheel drive to be a problem, but I'll admit Im not the biggest car enthusiast getting around.

The biggest misconception by Aussie motorists is that cars that are front wheel drive are rubbish. It is purely our upbringing in the land of the "Big Aussie 6" ( Falcon / Commodore ) when in all reality front wheel drive vehicles are the norm for smaller to mid-size cars the world over and even larger vehicles to some extent. The only main difference being at high speed cornering. In truth front wheel drives are better out of corners but not as balanced with under steer going in.

Not sure how you get a front wheel drive to "fish tail", that is usually reserved to rear wheel drives when cornering at speed.

neither do i, just happened when i was driving a magna station wagon when accelerated hard the back end tended to move around a bit

[Iron Fist]

have never driven a toyota ever !! have driven a magna and that was s***t with front wheel drive tended to fish tail a bit when i needed to accelerate hard so im certain toyota would be the same so i wont buy one

I've been driving Mitsi's (2 x Lancer, 1 x Verade, 1 x 380) for the last 10 years and have loved them all ... Ive never found the front wheel drive to be a problem, but I'll admit Im not the biggest car enthusiast getting around.

The biggest misconception by Aussie motorists is that cars that are front wheel drive are rubbish. It is purely our upbringing in the land of the "Big Aussie 6" ( Falcon / Commodore ) when in all reality front wheel drive vehicles are the norm for smaller to mid-size cars the world over and even larger vehicles to some extent. The only main difference being at high speed cornering. In truth front wheel drives are better out of corners but not as balanced with under steer going in.

Not sure how you get a front wheel drive to "fish tail", that is usually reserved to rear wheel drives when cornering at speed.

Bold tires???

neither do i, just happened when i was driving a magna station wagon when accelerated hard the back end tended to move around a bit

[Bully]

probably bold tires yes

[Simon_A]

Not sure how you get a front wheel drive to "fish tail", that is usually reserved to rear wheel drives when cornering at speed.

Possibly the front end was torque steering. Might feel the same to someone used to rear wheel drives.

[gadj1976]

Hey folks

Thinking very seriously of getting a Kluger as part of a salary packaging option. Does anyone have one out there? If so, what are they like. Other options, Captiva, Territory or Outlander. Any comments on any of the other options would be appreciated. We're looking at the 2WD versions of each and not sure whether to go to 7 seats or stay with the 5.

So far, in my investigations, the Territory drives well but the resale value is pretty ordinary. The Kluger's resale value is pretty good and their service fee is standard $170 for the first three years. The Outlander has the best warranty and is cheaper than everything else. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

[Booney]

All of the cars mentioned are very thirsty, check some fuel comparisons.

[gadj1976]

All of the cars mentioned are very thirsty, check some fuel comparisons.

Yeh they are Booney, however I need a bigger car for family, travel reasons and because it's a salary package, I get the fuel "included" in a monthly fee deducted from my pre-tax salary. So (at fear of being labelled an environmental terrorist) fuel consumption isn't really an issue.

[Booney]

I'd go for the Kluger then.

The Territory is poor re-sale ( as you said ) the Outlander under powered and IMO not that good.

If you have the coin, I'd look at the new Falcon wagon.

[tipper]

All of the cars mentioned are very thirsty, check some fuel comparisons.

Yeh they are Booney, however I need a bigger car for family, travel reasons and because it's a salary package, I get the fuel "included" in a monthly fee deducted from my pre-tax salary. So (at fear of being labelled an environmental terrorist) fuel consumption isn't really an issue.

Fuel consumption is relative. any car of the size and type mentioned is going to use more fuel than a prius. but they can all do thisgs that the prius cant. if you need a car of a certain size and or type they will all be in a similar ball park to each other, comparing them to a car of a different type achieves nothing.

Meanwhile i would also go the kluger. my mum has an outlander for work and my dad has a kluger (both 4wd). the outlander is nice, but the torque steer on it is VERY noticible when operating in 2wd mode(it is front wheel when in 2wd, and a selector dial for 2wd\4wd\4wd locked), other than that though it is a good car, just not as good as the kluger.

[gadj1976]

I'd go for the Kluger then.

The Territory is poor re-sale ( as you said ) the Outlander under powered and IMO not that good.

If you have the coin, I'd look at the new Falcon wagon.

One problem Booney, I hate the look of them! The 'wagon' part looks tacked on, with a noticeable different in window line between the back window and the 'wagon' window. Why they haven't tidied the cosmetic line is beyond me. I also hear that the wagon is looking to be wound up by Ford because of poor sales. No doubt the Territory sales have a lot to do with that. The Falcon wagon is also cheaper than the bottom of the range Territory and Kluger.

Fuel consumption is relative. any car of the size and type mentioned is going to use more fuel than a prius. but they can all do thisgs that the prius cant. if you need a car of a certain size and or type they will all be in a similar ball park to each other, comparing them to a car of a different type achieves nothing.

Meanwhile i would also go the kluger. my mum has an outlander for work and my dad has a kluger (both 4wd). the outlander is nice, but the torque steer on it is VERY noticible when operating in 2wd mode(it is front wheel when in 2wd, and a selector dial for 2wd\4wd\4wd locked), other than that though it is a good car, just not as good as the kluger.

Good points there Tipper. I note that the new Outlander is 4wd only (just checked last night). Also, the Outlander comes in 2.4 or 3.0 litre, the Kluger a 3.5 (from the Aurion) and the Territory a 4.0 litre.

[tipper]

I'd go for the Kluger then.

The Territory is poor re-sale ( as you said ) the Outlander under powered and IMO not that good.

If you have the coin, I'd look at the new Falcon wagon.

One problem Booney, I hate the look of them! The 'wagon' part looks tacked on, with a noticeable different in window line between the back window and the 'wagon' window. Why they haven't tidied the cosmetic line is beyond me. I also hear that the wagon is looking to be wound up by Ford because of poor sales. No doubt the Territory sales have a lot to do with that. The Falcon wagon is also cheaper than the bottom of the range Territory and Kluger.

Fuel consumption is relative. any car of the size and type mentioned is going to use more fuel than a prius. but they can all do thisgs that the prius cant. if you need a car of a certain size and or type they will all be in a similar ball park to each other, comparing them to a car of a different type achieves nothing.

Meanwhile i would also go the kluger. my mum has an outlander for work and my dad has a kluger (both 4wd). the outlander is nice, but the torque steer on it is VERY noticible when operating in 2wd mode(it is front wheel when in 2wd, and a selector dial for 2wd\4wd\4wd locked), other than that though it is a good car, just not as good as the kluger.

Good points there Tipper. I note that the new Outlander is 4wd only (just checked last night). Also, the Outlander comes in 2.4 or 3.0 litre, the Kluger a 3.5 (from the Aurion) and the Territory a 4.0 litre.

I didnt realise the outlander was 4wd only, mum's car is only a couple of minths old, she must have got the last of the previous model. i have only driven it the once but when i sunk the boot into it it self steered all over the road! it lives in its 4wd mode now, it happened to mum too so it wasnt just my driving! the service guys said it will increase fuel consumption a bit but she would rather not have it steer her into oncoming traffic, and her work pays for that too.

and the 3.5 in the kluger is also in some lexus models, the old man took great pleasure in telling me it "is the same motor as lexus use!" ( i didnt tell hime that lexus are still toyota but it made him feel good about his new toy i spose ) he had also looked at teh territory but found a good deal on the kluger, slightly second hand (18 months old, few kays, several options already fitted) so went with that.

the other thing to remember with the territory is that the 2wd models dont have the latest drivetrain. the 4wd now have an auto 6 speed which is supposedly a much better unit than the 4 speed(happy to be corrected, it may be 5) in the 2wd. it helps with fuel and just drivability supposedly. but that is just from what i have read, i have only ever been a passenger in a mates territoty! hope it helps and didnt just confuse things further!

[Psyber]

When looking at off road capable vehicles I've always gone for permanent 4wd with a centre differential, either switch lockable or self locking torsion sensing.
I don't know if any of the ones mentioned run to those features currently.
From what I've looked at, short of a VW Touareg or an Audi, I'd probably go with the Kluger.

A friend raves about his VW Tiguan, which was not expensive , but they are perhaps more of a soft-roader than off-roader..
It may also be a bit small for your needs.
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/tigua ... eview.html

[gadj1976]

I didnt realise the outlander was 4wd only, mum's car is only a couple of minths old, she must have got the last of the previous model. i have only driven it the once but when i sunk the boot into it it self steered all over the road! it lives in its 4wd mode now, it happened to mum too so it wasnt just my driving! the service guys said it will increase fuel consumption a bit but she would rather not have it steer her into oncoming traffic, and her work pays for that too.

and the 3.5 in the kluger is also in some lexus models, the old man took great pleasure in telling me it "is the same motor as lexus use!" ( i didnt tell hime that lexus are still toyota but it made him feel good about his new toy i spose ) he had also looked at teh territory but found a good deal on the kluger, slightly second hand (18 months old, few kays, several options already fitted) so went with that.

the other thing to remember with the territory is that the 2wd models dont have the latest drivetrain. the 4wd now have an auto 6 speed which is supposedly a much better unit than the 4 speed(happy to be corrected, it may be 5) in the 2wd. it helps with fuel and just drivability supposedly. but that is just from what i have read, i have only ever been a passenger in a mates territoty! hope it helps and didnt just confuse things further!

hehehehe, that might be why the Outlander is only in 4wd now! I'm convinced that the Outlander isn't the way to go, although I do like the fold down tailgate.

Yeh, the Kluger engine is the same in both cars. Weird that they've put the same engine in the bigger car but apparently the fuel consumption isn't that different?! Weird. Aurion 9.9l/100km, Kluger 11.0l/100km (as per Toyota). Just looking at the Toyota forum, and one guy says he constantly gets 10l/100km in his Kluger which I think is phenomenal for a big car.

[gadj1976]

When looking at off road capable vehicles I've always gone for permanent 4wd with a centre differential, either switch lockable or self locking torsion sensing.
I don't know if any of the ones mentioned run to those features currently.
From what I've looked at, short of a VW Touareg or an Audi, I'd probably go with the Kluger.

A friend raves about his VW Tiguan, which was not expensive , but they are perhaps more of a soft-roader than off-roader..
It may also be a bit small for your needs.
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/tigua ... eview.html

Thanks Psyber. A mate of mine just bought a Tiguan and raves about it. My sources tell me that parts and servicing is more expensive - again not that I'm overly concerned about it because of the salary packaging options. I've looked at the Touareg and the cost is too much for me. I'll keep the Tiguan in the front of my mind though.

[Psyber]

Thanks Psyber. A mate of mine just bought a Tiguan and raves about it. My sources tell me that parts and servicing is more expensive - again not that I'm overly concerned about it because of the salary packaging options. I've looked at the Touareg and the cost is too much for me. I'll keep the Tiguan in the front of my mind though.

Based on my experience German stuff just works, and goes on working.
Audi, Porsche, and VW, are all closely intertwined and often some parts are interchangeable.
[For example my Audi S2 has the same gearbox as the Porsche 968CS.]

Also there are independent servicing agents who don't rip you off - AVW at Keswick for example.
AVW service my Audi in Adelaide, and in Melbourne I went to Audi Spares or Baytech.
Parts can be sourced through Audi Spares in Clayton in Melbourne and other independents.
[The guys at AVW and Audi Spares know each other reasonably well.]

[Felch]

Hey folks

Thinking very seriously of getting a Kluger as part of a salary packaging option. Does anyone have one out there? If so, what are they like. Other options, Captiva, Territory or Outlander. Any comments on any of the other options would be appreciated. We're looking at the 2WD versions of each and not sure whether to go to 7 seats or stay with the 5.

So far, in my investigations, the Territory drives well but the resale value is pretty ordinary. The Kluger's resale value is pretty good and their service fee is standard $170 for the first three years. The Outlander has the best warranty and is cheaper than everything else. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

I have a Territory mate - only the 2wd TX version. Good car, have had it for about a year now. 7 seater as well. It is thirstier than my Falcon, but is a good, easy car to drive (My wife drives it on a daily basis). At the time, we looked at a Mazda CX7 also, but the budget wouldnt quite stretch that far. And we were looking for a 7 seater.