Howards 10th anniversary.

Anything!

Postby mick » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:54 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:I think the thing that this shows is people will vote for what is best for them. Howard is obviously working in that regard for a lot of people. Personally Federal Government funding (or should I say the cutting there of) has directly cost me employment on two occassions. Not that the Labor party would have necessarily done any better by me.
As for core and social values, the day I agree with The Lyons Forum (sorry Political Reform Group) it will be a cold day in hell. Mind you once again like the Labor party are any better with their Faith and Values Group.


That's the nature of politics, being a "moderate" whatever that means today is a hard road to travel. One thing is for sure Labor has moved steadily to the right over the last 30 years, I genuinely feel for those people from working class backgrounds (rather than union hacks) who grew up with the party, the values of Curtin and Chifley are ancient history- "dinosaurs" perhaps. Australia has moved on and John Howard has had the ability to work out what the majority of us want, so if you are pissed off with having to pay HECS it's too bad, most of us don't care, by the same token I've been screwed as a non custodial parent thanks to what happened during the Hawke/Keating era, Johnny is reforming this area to make it fairer (in my opinion :wink: ) too late for me, but the majority at one stage wanted this so I and many others had to cop it sweet in the past. That's democracy :lol:
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Postby mrjbeam1981 » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:14 pm

let me comment from a youth perspective.

in 1996 when JH came into power i was in year 9. turned 18 in 1999 and voted Labor in the next election due to my Indigenous background. in 2003 i embarked on University and once again voted Labor at the following election. at last years election my beliefs got the better of me and you guessed it voted labor. seeing last years loss got me thinking. for people of the 18-25 age group we have only ever really seen a Liberal Government in power. we have seen a successful coalition thrive while the other party growing more and more incompetent. this fact alone is why i believe a lot of people in that age group including myself will be voting coalition in the next election...
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Postby duncs7 » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:52 am

mrjbeam1981 wrote:let me comment from a youth perspective.

in 1996 when JH came into power i was in year 9. turned 18 in 1999 and voted Labor in the next election due to my Indigenous background. in 2003 i embarked on University and once again voted Labor at the following election. at last years election my beliefs got the better of me and you guessed it voted labor. seeing last years loss got me thinking. for people of the 18-25 age group we have only ever really seen a Liberal Government in power. we have seen a successful coalition thrive while the other party growing more and more incompetent. this fact alone is why i believe a lot of people in that age group including myself will be voting coalition in the next election...

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Your on ur own there buddy.
Ur another victim of the great coalition propaganda machine! Think for yourself man not what they want u to think.
Does it not bother you that we are going to sell Uranium (essential material for nuclear warheads) to a country who have been on the brink of an all out war with its nuclear capable neighbour many times in the last 20 years. And that India refuse to sign a non-proliferation treaty which basically is an agreement that they will not develop or use nuclear weapons!!!!!
The hyprocrity of the US and Oz going to war in Iraq because he may have WMD's and then selling the shit to a boredrline third world country locked in an eternal dispute with a powerful nuclear capable country over land.

Think man think! :cry:
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Postby mick » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:50 am

duncs7 wrote:
mrjbeam1981 wrote:let me comment from a youth perspective.

in 1996 when JH came into power i was in year 9. turned 18 in 1999 and voted Labor in the next election due to my Indigenous background. in 2003 i embarked on University and once again voted Labor at the following election. at last years election my beliefs got the better of me and you guessed it voted labor. seeing last years loss got me thinking. for people of the 18-25 age group we have only ever really seen a Liberal Government in power. we have seen a successful coalition thrive while the other party growing more and more incompetent. this fact alone is why i believe a lot of people in that age group including myself will be voting coalition in the next election...

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Your on ur own there buddy.
Ur another victim of the great coalition propaganda machine! Think for yourself man not what they want u to think.
Does it not bother you that we are going to sell Uranium (essential material for nuclear warheads) to a country who have been on the brink of an all out war with its nuclear capable neighbour many times in the last 20 years. And that India refuse to sign a non-proliferation treaty which basically is an agreement that they will not develop or use nuclear weapons!!!!!
The hyprocrity of the US and Oz going to war in Iraq because he may have WMD's and then selling the shit to a boredrline third world country locked in an eternal dispute with a powerful nuclear capable country over land.

Think man think! :cry:



You're still harping on about issues most voters don't give a stuff about, for what it's worth I think it's an important issue but I won't change my vote over it. Labor (as distinct from the left) seriously need to find issues that are important to the electorate. Leave the NPT to the Greens and Democrats :wink:
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Postby stan » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:18 am

duncs7 wrote:For one thing if Whitlam got the time he deserved i wouldnt have to pay $97,950 for my degree!


Duncs7 i agree with you on this issue. Paying $100,000 for a degree is bloody terrible, it really is. I was really against the Nelson reforms for universities. And that cause me to vote Labour in the last election, as this was a issue that really concerned me and of course the fact that full fee paying students can get in if they havent go the TER pisses me of as well. As much as I would love to get my degree for free, it just doesnt happen anymore. But look at other places in the world, such as the US and UK (i think) where HECS or anything similar doesnt exist. SoWe are still lucky not to have to pay up front fees each year.
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Postby Punk Rooster » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:18 pm

duncs7 wrote: ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Your on ur own there buddy.
Ur another victim of the great coalition propaganda machine! Think for yourself man not what they want u to think.
Does it not bother you that we are going to sell Uranium (essential material for nuclear warheads) to a country who have been on the brink of an all out war with its nuclear capable neighbour many times in the last 20 years. And that India refuse to sign a non-proliferation treaty which basically is an agreement that they will not develop or use nuclear weapons!!!!!
The hyprocrity of the US and Oz going to war in Iraq because he may have WMD's and then selling the shit to a boredrline third world country locked in an eternal dispute with a powerful nuclear capable country over land.

Think man think! :cry:
Like most Uni students, it appears you have a one track mind, & anyone not seeing things your way, well, your just flabbergasted that something living could be so stupid.... Also you "know the truth", while others are only "swallowing propoganda".. got news for you, propoganda is dished out by everyone, not just those you disagree with...
I think Mick's input on this thread is quite valid, & worth respecting- I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with him, also a few others have put forward intelligent comments.
Uni students- nothing wrong with being that, but most of you lack "real world experiences", blokes like Mick have been there & done that, but also have done time in the real world to balance their views.
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Postby duncs7 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:23 pm

stan wrote:
duncs7 wrote:For one thing if Whitlam got the time he deserved i wouldnt have to pay $97,950 for my degree!


Duncs7 i agree with you on this issue. Paying $100,000 for a degree is bloody terrible, it really is. I was really against the Nelson reforms for universities. And that cause me to vote Labour in the last election, as this was a issue that really concerned me and of course the fact that full fee paying students can get in if they havent go the TER pisses me of as well. As much as I would love to get my degree for free, it just doesnt happen anymore. But look at other places in the world, such as the US and UK (i think) where HECS or anything similar doesnt exist. SoWe are still lucky not to have to pay up front fees each year.

Im happy 2 contribute to my degree, but $100000!!! Come on
I think i have a lot to give as a male teacher/role model to disadvantaged kids in low socio-economic areas. But its so hard for me to finish my degree without massive financial pressure on me to leave Uni and go find a FT job. I dont have parents i can bludge off and buy me a new WRX to get 2 Uni. I have to do it the hard way on my own. Upsets me to think how many great potential teachers out there just wont be able to make it because of the same financial pressures im feeling.

And to Mick, U my friend are a disgrace to human kind! Flagrant disregard for our enviroment and planet Earth will be the undoing of us all one day. If u were even worth having a decent discussion with i would prove to you we are harming our enviroment everyday and because its financially unviable to change our ways, we will keep going on the way we are until maybe its too late to reverse it. Hope u dont live to close to the beach mate, u
r house wont be there in 20 years the way were going.
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Postby JK » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:32 pm

Geez mate, don't hold back!! :shock: As per part of Punky's post, surely you can't personally attack someone for having an opinion, a belief or leading a lifestyle that differs to that of your own?? There have been some very interesting posts in this thread, some I agree with and some I don't, but in all instances I appreciate and respect that everyone is entitled to think whichever way they like, and I'd still have a beer at the footy with each and every poster (hopefully not on the same day unless it's at the Parade, coz I couldn't drink that much West End) :D
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Postby am Bays » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:56 pm

Punk Rooster wrote:
duncs7 wrote: ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Your on ur own there buddy.
Ur another victim of the great coalition propaganda machine! Think for yourself man not what they want u to think.
Does it not bother you that we are going to sell Uranium (essential material for nuclear warheads) to a country who have been on the brink of an all out war with its nuclear capable neighbour many times in the last 20 years. And that India refuse to sign a non-proliferation treaty which basically is an agreement that they will not develop or use nuclear weapons!!!!!
The hyprocrity of the US and Oz going to war in Iraq because he may have WMD's and then selling the shit to a boredrline third world country locked in an eternal dispute with a powerful nuclear capable country over land.

Think man think! :cry:
Like most Uni students, it appears you have a one track mind, & anyone not seeing things your way, well, your just flabbergasted that something living could be so stupid.... Also you "know the truth", while others are only "swallowing propoganda".. got news for you, propoganda is dished out by everyone, not just those you disagree with...
I think Mick's input on this thread is quite valid, & worth respecting- I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with him, also a few others have put forward intelligent comments.
Uni students- nothing wrong with being that, but most of you lack "real world experiences", blokes like Mick have been there & done that, but also have done time in the real world to balance their views.


Punky, Punky Punky, Green Left Weekly is a fine journalistic instituion full of balance, facts, reason and evidence. Never would they slant an arguement to fit a propoganda objective....

Leave Duncs "sources" alone.... :lol: :lol:
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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JH & Libs

Postby Lunchcutter » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:01 pm

[quote="mick"]JH is a great man that's why he's PM and why his government has been in power ten years. Can you imagine the mess this country would be in if Whitlam, in earlier times or Keating had lasted much longer than 3 years. Labor has lost the plot they are too interested in "scandals" such as children overboard, AWB etc. thinking that the majority of the population care about these issues, about 5% do think these things are important, they vote Green or Democrat. Labor does not not have a rosy future, as a majority of young people now support the coalition, when I was in my early adulthood in the 70s it was difficult to find a Liberal voter in that age group, not so now, unfortunately for Labor people tend to become more conservative as they grow older. The only thing that will unseat the current government will be a serious downturn in the economy because this is the number one issue for the vast majority of voters.[/quote]

Here, Here, Mick Im with you :D
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Postby Booney » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:37 pm

Would have opened this can of worms much sooner if I had known.
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Postby Leaping Lindner » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:43 pm

1980 Tassie Medalist wrote:
Punk Rooster wrote:
duncs7 wrote: ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Your on ur own there buddy.
Ur another victim of the great coalition propaganda machine! Think for yourself man not what they want u to think.
Does it not bother you that we are going to sell Uranium (essential material for nuclear warheads) to a country who have been on the brink of an all out war with its nuclear capable neighbour many times in the last 20 years. And that India refuse to sign a non-proliferation treaty which basically is an agreement that they will not develop or use nuclear weapons!!!!!
The hyprocrity of the US and Oz going to war in Iraq because he may have WMD's and then selling the shit to a boredrline third world country locked in an eternal dispute with a powerful nuclear capable country over land.

Think man think! :cry:
Like most Uni students, it appears you have a one track mind, & anyone not seeing things your way, well, your just flabbergasted that something living could be so stupid.... Also you "know the truth", while others are only "swallowing propoganda".. got news for you, propoganda is dished out by everyone, not just those you disagree with...
I think Mick's input on this thread is quite valid, & worth respecting- I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with him, also a few others have put forward intelligent comments.
Uni students- nothing wrong with being that, but most of you lack "real world experiences", blokes like Mick have been there & done that, but also have done time in the real world to balance their views.


Punky, Punky Punky, Green Left Weekly is a fine journalistic instituion full of balance, facts, reason and evidence. Never would they slant an arguement to fit a propoganda objective....

Leave Duncs "sources" alone.... :lol: :lol:


As opposed to "The Advertiser", "The Daily Telegraph" and "The Herald Sun" which all contain fine upstanding and credible journalism, and are non-bias and balanced. With all issues discussed therein throughlly researched.
As Punk Rooster said propaganda is dished out by everyone.
"They got Burton suits, ha, you think it's funny,turning rebellion into money"
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Postby mick » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:47 pm

duncs7 wrote:
stan wrote:
duncs7 wrote:For one thing if Whitlam got the time he deserved i wouldnt have to pay $97,950 for my degree!


Duncs7 i agree with you on this issue. Paying $100,000 for a degree is bloody terrible, it really is. I was really against the Nelson reforms for universities. And that cause me to vote Labour in the last election, as this was a issue that really concerned me and of course the fact that full fee paying students can get in if they havent go the TER pisses me of as well. As much as I would love to get my degree for free, it just doesnt happen anymore. But look at other places in the world, such as the US and UK (i think) where HECS or anything similar doesnt exist. SoWe are still lucky not to have to pay up front fees each year.

Im happy 2 contribute to my degree, but $100000!!! Come on
I think i have a lot to give as a male teacher/role model to disadvantaged kids in low socio-economic areas. But its so hard for me to finish my degree without massive financial pressure on me to leave Uni and go find a FT job. I dont have parents i can bludge off and buy me a new WRX to get 2 Uni. I have to do it the hard way on my own. Upsets me to think how many great potential teachers out there just wont be able to make it because of the same financial pressures im feeling.

And to Mick, U my friend are a disgrace to human kind! Flagrant disregard for our enviroment and planet Earth will be the undoing of us all one day. If u were even worth having a decent discussion with i would prove to you we are harming our enviroment everyday and because its financially unviable to change our ways, we will keep going on the way we are until maybe its too late to reverse it. Hope u dont live to close to the beach mate, u
r house wont be there in 20 years the way were going.


Thanks Duncs for your reasoned response :wink: No suprises there, just because I think the Greens and Democrats are a waste of space, doesn't necessarily mean I don't care about the environment :lol: You must be doing a degree with high income potential to have a HECS debt of $100,000 when you finish :wink:
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Postby Punk Rooster » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:43 pm

duncs7 wrote:Im happy 2 contribute to my degree, but $100000!!! Come on
I think i have a lot to give as a male teacher/role model to disadvantaged kids in low socio-economic areas. But its so hard for me to finish my degree without massive financial pressure on me to leave Uni and go find a FT job. I dont have parents i can bludge off and buy me a new WRX to get 2 Uni. I have to do it the hard way on my own. Upsets me to think how many great potential teachers out there just wont be able to make it because of the same financial pressures im feeling.
This is one of your first learning experiences- whilst man was created equal, we all don't have an equal opportunity in life. Yes, there are spoiled brats getting around in brand new cars, bought by well meaning, but misguided parents, but we each have to make the best of our own situations. Full credit to you for doing things tough, but you are one of many. The world doesn't owe anyone a living, it may give them an education, but I wouldn't think it's societies responsibility to hand out degrees worth 100K. To sum it up though, "survival of the fittest".

duncs7 wrote:And to Mick, U my friend are a disgrace to human kind! Flagrant disregard for our enviroment and planet Earth will be the undoing of us all one day. If u were even worth having a decent discussion with i would prove to you we are harming our enviroment everyday and because its financially unviable to change our ways, we will keep going on the way we are until maybe its too late to reverse it. Hope u dont live to close to the beach mate, u
r house wont be there in 20 years the way were going.
Qute honestly, I don't swallow "the world is heating up because we used aerosols once" theory. What was the ice age being blamed on? Too many dinosaurs not recycling? I think mankind has some sort of ego if they think that their choice of aftershave, or whether or not they used recylcled toilet paper, decides the fate of the solar system. There are much greater forces at work, the moon controls our water, the sun our energy- when did nature decide "as is, always wil be"? I'm sure that their have been gradual changes toward glabal warming, back to global cooling. Perhaps it's not all about us?
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Postby stan » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:09 pm

You got it in one there punk, Damn dino the last dinosour, he should have recycled more!
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Postby ORDoubleBlues » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:34 pm

1980 Tassie Medalist wrote:
Leaping Lindner wrote:John Howard has this reputation as a "great economic manager" and yet our foreign debt is $461 Billion having tripled since he came to office in 1996. :?


Because private sector debt LL not govt debt: Industry leaders wanting to pay $2/ hr to Asian sweat box labour compared to Australian workers and you and I being complicit in buying the cheaper imported crap (like these computers) rather than the Australian product!!

Wont change until we the massess march into the supermarkets/electrical shops/any reatiler you care to name and demand local manufactured goods. Bewdy Narelle and her holeproof hero socks!!!



Good Call here Tassie. If I found out products that I buy from a company, have gone offshore, I refuse to buy those products any more. I acknowledge that some things we buy are not made here at all but I think huge tariffs should be slapped on companies that go offshore but still continue to sell those products in this country.
As for the people who say "I don't care where it's from, I buy the cheapest", well that's fine but don't ever complain in the future if your children and grandchildren can't get a job.
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Postby am Bays » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:18 pm

Punk Rooster wrote:
duncs7 wrote:Im happy 2 contribute to my degree, but $100000!!! Come on
I think i have a lot to give as a male teacher/role model to disadvantaged kids in low socio-economic areas. But its so hard for me to finish my degree without massive financial pressure on me to leave Uni and go find a FT job. I dont have parents i can bludge off and buy me a new WRX to get 2 Uni. I have to do it the hard way on my own. Upsets me to think how many great potential teachers out there just wont be able to make it because of the same financial pressures im feeling.
This is one of your first learning experiences- whilst man was created equal, we all don't have an equal opportunity in life. Yes, there are spoiled brats getting around in brand new cars, bought by well meaning, but misguided parents, but we each have to make the best of our own situations. Full credit to you for doing things tough, but you are one of many. The world doesn't owe anyone a living, it may give them an education, but I wouldn't think it's societies responsibility to hand out degrees worth 100K. To sum it up though, "survival of the fittest".

As Bill Gates so memorably said, "Lifes not fair, get used to it!!"
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Postby am Bays » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:28 pm

Seriously I have major troubles hearing most Australians, particularly those like I who have been fortunate to have tertiary education in whatever form, saying 'Life's not fair"

Not fair is going to school on the West Bank and being picked off by a snipers bullet or sitting next to some psuedo follower of Allah who wears a thick coat in summer on an Israeli bus......

Not fair is having a diet of half a cup of maize or cous cous morning and night for most of your life in war torn Africa......

Not fair is tending you parents rice paddy field and stepping on an old abandoned mine.........

Not fair is eaking a living on the rubbish tips of India and the Phillipines from the age of four.....

Not fair is caring for your younger brothers and sisters after your parents have died of AIDS......

Like it or lump it this is a lucky country.......
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Postby am Bays » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:52 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:
As opposed to "The Advertiser", "The Daily Telegraph" and "The Herald Sun" which all contain fine upstanding and credible journalism, and are non-bias and balanced. With all issues discussed therein throughlly researched.
As Punk Rooster said propaganda is dished out by everyone.


Couldn't agree with you and Punky more....

However, I used to have a good chuckle at the diatribe in GLW and the great student rag of Flinders, The Empire Times

If I'd believed my first edition of GLW in 1990, I and the rest of us would be dead by now as armageddon was fast approaching due to all out US nuclear imperialsm!!!
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Postby mick » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:49 pm

1980 Tassie Medalist wrote:
Leaping Lindner wrote:
As opposed to "The Advertiser", "The Daily Telegraph" and "The Herald Sun" which all contain fine upstanding and credible journalism, and are non-bias and balanced. With all issues discussed therein throughlly researched.
As Punk Rooster said propaganda is dished out by everyone.


Couldn't agree with you and Punky more....

However, I used to have a good chuckle at the diatribe in GLW and the great student rag of Flinders, The Empire Times

If I'd believed my first edition of GLW in 1990, I and the rest of us would be dead by now as armageddon was fast approaching due to all out US nuclear imperialsm!!!


GLW used to be called "Direct Action" it was the newspaper of the Socialist Youth Alliance, when socialism went out of fashion they became Green - I visited a number of socialist countries in the 1980s they certainly were not green! I remember the good old Empire Times a bloke called Andy McHugh used to print it in the early 70s. Flinders was an interesting place then, right wingers were members of the Communist Party of Australia. Students were not whinging wimps like they are today. Excuse my cynicism those left wingers of the 70s (communists/socialists whatever) are todays establishment. Nothing converts a socialist to a capitalist quicker than a few dollars :lol:
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