Qantas' entire fleet grounded

[woodublieve12]

This was sent to me from a QANTAS pilot who is a close friend. FYI


At work tomorrow there is bound to be some 'water cooler' talk about the Qantas grounding. Please speak up and help spread the truth regarding the industrial disputes:

1) AIPA union have not and are not striking. Not a single pilot has striked and not a single pilot has caused any delays. The only action they have done is wearing red ties and passenger inflight announcements. They have been locked out for this behaviour.

2) The dispute regarding pilots is long haul only. Domestic short haul are not involved and their agreement isn't up for renewal till next year. Yet, Joyce has locked them all out too. Grounding the most profitable part of Qantas, it's domestic operations.

3) The dispute is NOT about pay, although all three unions are only asking for pay rises within CPI spread out over 3 years. The reason the 'negotiations' aren't going anywhere is because the unions don't want Qantas turned into a low cost Asia based airline, cut up and destroyed and an Australian icon ruined. The engineers and pilots are concerned about YOUR safety and the reputation and longevity of the Qantas brand which they are all very loyal too.

4) Alan Joyce was on the Ansett board and destroyed it and he's doing the same to Qantas, don't believe the media spin he is putting on things. The company is not in 'dire' circumstances as he claims, they have actually posted one of their best profits in the last decade, doubling their profit yearly. Also, if they were really in 'dire' circumstances, any decent leader would not have accepted a 71% pay increase like Joyce did on Friday. Yes he took his $5 million dollar pay and then less than 24hrs turned around and grounded the airline.... that's taking your money and running in a whole new light isn't it?!

5) The union strikes have caused a total of 6 hours of delays broken up into 1 hour blocks over months, Joyce's grounding is going on 24 hours.... The union strikes all were done with 72 hours notice and with least impact to passengers, less than 3% of flights were effected. Joyce's grounding has obviously affected 100% of flights. If you are pissed about your flight interruptions, Joyce is the man to be pissed at, not the unions!!!

Explains alot...

[Sky Pilot]

I think people are just discriminating against Joyce not because he's gay, not because his bloke is a Kiwi and not because Joyce is Irish but because he's a Geelong supporter! I'd guess that a fair chunk of those baggage handlers are Collingwood supporters!

Crikey I didn't know Alan Joyce batted for the other side! Does he visit Tasmania very often?

[bulldogproud2]

This was sent to me from a QANTAS pilot who is a close friend. FYI


At work tomorrow there is bound to be some 'water cooler' talk about the Qantas grounding. Please speak up and help spread the truth regarding the industrial disputes:

1) AIPA union have not and are not striking. Not a single pilot has striked and not a single pilot has caused any delays. The only action they have done is wearing red ties and passenger inflight announcements. They have been locked out for this behaviour.

2) The dispute regarding pilots is long haul only. Domestic short haul are not involved and their agreement isn't up for renewal till next year. Yet, Joyce has locked them all out too. Grounding the most profitable part of Qantas, it's domestic operations.

3) The dispute is NOT about pay, although all three unions are only asking for pay rises within CPI spread out over 3 years. The reason the 'negotiations' aren't going anywhere is because the unions don't want Qantas turned into a low cost Asia based airline, cut up and destroyed and an Australian icon ruined. The engineers and pilots are concerned about YOUR safety and the reputation and longevity of the Qantas brand which they are all very loyal too.

4) Alan Joyce was on the Ansett board and destroyed it and he's doing the same to Qantas, don't believe the media spin he is putting on things. The company is not in 'dire' circumstances as he claims, they have actually posted one of their best profits in the last decade, doubling their profit yearly. Also, if they were really in 'dire' circumstances, any decent leader would not have accepted a 71% pay increase like Joyce did on Friday. Yes he took his $5 million dollar pay and then less than 24hrs turned around and grounded the airline.... that's taking your money and running in a whole new light isn't it?!

5) The union strikes have caused a total of 6 hours of delays broken up into 1 hour blocks over months, Joyce's grounding is going on 24 hours.... The union strikes all were done with 72 hours notice and with least impact to passengers, less than 3% of flights were effected. Joyce's grounding has obviously affected 100% of flights. If you are pissed about your flight interruptions, Joyce is the man to be pissed at, not the unions!!!

The one I don't get about this is number 3. Baggage handlers wanting a 5% increase which is well above the cpi and already 12% above other airlines in AUS . And also wanting the percentage of contractors down. With any new agreement you have to give something to get something.

As the Enterprise Agreement goes for three years, this is only 1.67% per year, well below the annual inflation rate. Additionally, it is not the baggage handlers who are 12% abover other airlines in Australia re salary. Most are on a base wage of only $38 000.
Cheers

[kickinit]

As the Enterprise Agreement goes for three years, this is only 1.67% per year, well below the annual inflation rate. Additionally, it is not the baggage handlers who are 12% abover other airlines in Australia re salary. Most are on a base wage of only $38 000.
Cheers[/quote]

Firstly a Enterprise Agreement doesn't go for 3 years it goes for how long both parties agree on, like my work just signed a 4 year agreement. And it's not 5% over the life of the agreement it's 5% a year so if the agreement is 3 years then it's 15% a year. You would never ask for a pay increase below the inflation rate and if you are smart you also have it put in if the inflation rate is higher then the agreement rate then the inflation rate is be paid. And finally they are the ones that are being paid 12% more.

http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies ... ijqgol4e1O
if you want to see the facts.

[bulldogproud2]

Kickinit, that is the same document that I used.
If you read that document fully, you will see that I am correct in saying that they are employed on a base contract of $38,000, certainly not high by anyone's standards.
Yes, QANTAS do state that they earn 12% higher than employees in Virgin, but did you study how QANTAS came up with that figure - how much overtime an employee would have to do to actually earn that figure? Additionally, the TWU has stated that the 5% figure they have asked for is negotiable.
Re Enterprise Agreements, whilst you are correct that an Enterprise Agreement may go for different terms (up to a maximum of four years) I do not know of any which have been made for less than three years. This is the standard term for an Enterprise Agreement, with negotiations for the next one allowed to commence six months before the end of the current one.
Cheers

[kickinit]

how do you know that's how they worked it out. Qantas employee's are the best paid in Australia. Maybe Qantas show turn around and just pay award wages. The ones that are going to be hit by this are the maintenance guys. At least they went in with a low pay rise % but asked for something in return.

[bulldogproud2]

.. and the one who does the best out of it is Alan Joyce. 70% pay rise and did insurmountable damage to his company the next day!
So much for receiving pay rises without giving something back!
Cheers

[kickinit]

Yes I don't agree with his pay rise but that would of been in his contract. If the made so many $ profit you will get so many $. Just like all these other CEO that get big pay rises.

[redandblack]

Not quite.

Sol Trujillo and many others come to mind. Big reductions in profits, big pay rises regardless.

Neither have any morality.

Then again, most of us are workers but some are happy to support someone on $96000 a week telling someone on $780 a week that they're being greedy.

[bulldogproud2]

.. so it is okay for a CEO to have a new contract providing him with a $2 000 000 rise (which by the way was not in his priginal contract and had to be voted for by shareholders last Friday) but it is disgraceful for baggage handlers to try to negotiate a $1 900 rise in their contracts??? You also need to consider that the main points that the TWU were campaigning for was to keep work in Australia rather than offshore and also to improve safety. They were quite happy to negotiate a lower pay increase - money was a minor point in their claims.
Cheers

[HOORAY PUNT]

.. so it is okay for a CEO to have a new contract providing him with a $2 000 000 rise (which by the way was not in his priginal contract and had to be voted for by shareholders last Friday) but it is disgraceful for baggage handlers to try to negotiate a $1 900 rise in their contracts??? You also need to consider that the main points that the TWU were campaigning for was to keep work in Australia rather than offshore and also to improve safety. They were quite happy to negotiate a lower pay increase - money was a minor point in their claims.
Cheers

Why bring that logic into it . Unfortunately some leaders of the past have destroyed Unions and refuse to admit the good they have done and still so. If people cannot see that then they are plain ignorant and stupid.

Surely people want to see Qantas remain in Australia and employ Australians.

[dedja]

So i take it you buy only Australia made cars? ... do you check that goods are Australian made before you buy, even if they're more expensive?

Most people (rightly or wrongly) will purchase goods and services based on factors other than Australian made or produced, with price high up on the list.

Why would choosing an airline to travel with be any different?

[HOORAY PUNT]

I do my best to keep Australians employed by buying Australian . Lets not confuse the arguement at point here .I'll always go into bat for Aussie jobs and protecting them .

[The Sleeping Giant]

I make sure my hookers are Aussie.

[HOORAY PUNT]

Do they have those 'Made in Australia " tag dangling from................oh never mind.

[dedja]

I make sure my hookers are Aussie.

do you get them from 'long grass' near Bagot Rd?

[bulldogproud2]

I must admit that I have not given sufficient attention to making sure that I purchase Australian-made goods in preference to others up until now.
However, I think this will be a wake-up call for me to do so, except I will never fly QANTAS again if they go ahead and replace large amounts of Australian employees with cheaper foreign labour.
Cheers

[dedja]

I did laugh when Qantas had a hotline during the grounding ... 13 13 13

If you're Alan Joyce, that's ... tirteen, tirteen, tirteen

[Pseudo]

I must admit that I have not given sufficient attention to making sure that I purchase Australian-made goods in preference to others up until now.
However, I think this will be a wake-up call for me to do so, except I will never fly QANTAS again if they go ahead and replace large amounts of Australian employees with cheaper foreign labour.
Cheers

You may end up never flying again, with any carrier!

IMO the source of the problem here is not directly money-grubbing executives attempting to raise their bonuses while driving down the company's expenditure. Nor is the problem union bully boys and striking staff extorting better pay/conditions from an airline which cannot afford it. The problem is simply a side effect of globalisation; capitalism sans frontieres. When trade restrictions between established economies and emerging economies are lifted, there are bound to be some shocks while the system moves to equilibrium. On the plus side, we all get cheap plasma TVs, netbooks and other consumer goods. I've yet to hear anybody complain about this. On the down side, it becomes impossible for locals (businesses and workers) to compete. This is inherent in the system, and short of a people's revolution and the introduction of a planned economy I do not know what can be done about it. Just shrug your shoulders and do your best to adapt.

Aw heck, now I feel dirty, like I've been reading the politics board again. Why is this frickin' thread here in General Talk anyways?

[kickinit]

the only ones wanting job security is the maintenance crew as qantas wants to ship the major maintenance over sea's. The baggage handler's will still have jobs even if they do this. The only thing they wanted was qantas to lower the amount of contractors, which isn't going to happen as they need these contractors as the full-time employees ain't working the overtime. The fact that they want qantas to cut down contractors want a 5% pay rise and at the end of the day they ain't willing to work the overtime to cover the work. I'm sorry but how can you ask a company for this?