Tour de France 2008 - July 5-27

[MightyEagles]

After Stage 12 last night, Evens still leading by 1 second.

[Swamp Donkey]

I realise Ricco is only very young and relatively inexperienced, but is he any chance at all. From the commentary last night it seems as though his stamina was questionable, certainly ddint show last night. I mean if he can use that acceleration at each of the mountain stages he will be right back in it. How did he go in the time trial?

I thought he looked good.. cheating pr#*k!

[devilsadvocate]

I realise Ricco is only very young and relatively inexperienced, but is he any chance at all. From the commentary last night it seems as though his stamina was questionable, certainly ddint show last night. I mean if he can use that acceleration at each of the mountain stages he will be right back in it. How did he go in the time trial?

I thought he looked good.. cheating pr#*k!

It's exactly like last year Swampy, when Vinokourov powered away through the alps and despite being dead and buried going into that stage at about 6 minutes down, he streaked away to win by about 8 or 9 minutes to claim the yellow.

Everyone was congratulating his super human effort, which turned out to be just that.

It's a disgrace, but who's to say they're not all doing it?

[Grahaml]

Each rider they catch and kick out is one rider closer to cleaning the sport up. I think people are mad if they think cycling is worse than athletics. It's just cycling is currently the most serious about drugs. I would really like to see no team ever pick Ricco up again. That would send some sort of message that no matter who, no matter how good, no matter whether you were more or less finished or had 10 years left, you take drugs and get caught your career is over. It struck me as strange he picked Pantani as his hero to start with. Now I know why.

Sadly though, it only makes Armstrong's achievements look more dubious given we know more and more of his opponents were cheating (not that Ricco was one of his opponents) like Vinokourov, Ullrich, Riis. Not to mention half his team has been done now with Mayo and Landis gone. I am 100% sure that if every rider was clean, Armstrong was the greatest. But at least in my mind there is a nagging feeling that to have beaten all those cheaters without drugs is a little difficult to imagine. Not to mention beating them 7 times!

I honestly feel that cycling is now 95% clean. The bulk of the riders, the teams and the sponsors are all now getting behind the global push for more and more serious action to be taken. Astana pulled out totally after Vinokourov last year. Saunier Duval this year with a contender still in the hunt as well as a KOM contender! Breakthroughs in drug testing means that WADA are right behind the cheats in terms of technology. Less cheaters means that they will be able to keep pace better than ever before IMHO, and more serious penalties (like a 24 year old who nobody will want to touch again) mean the temptation to cheat is severely tempered.

[devilsadvocate]

Good point Graham about athletics. What's happening in that sport, particularly with Dwayne Chambers here in the UK is a disgrace. I agree that a life ban is the only remedy and the perfect deterent.

The Armstrong case is a tough one. I personally think that he had assistance, but obviously have nothing to go by other than the exact suspicions you raised. I still admire him though and will give hime the benefit of the doubt as despite his arrogance, he is a genuinely tough competitor.

There was a program on here last week called 'The Science of Lance Armstrong', which covered his young days, illness and of course how he won 7 times. It focussed on 2 main areas. The first was around Lance's genetics and made an interesting point that when he breathes, he uses around 80% of the oxygen he inhales compared to the average, fit 25-30yo male who uses only 55% - a significant advantage! After his illness, Lance built his body differently to pre-cancer and trained his body for endurance rather than power and was said to have trained harder and longer than any of his rivals by some margin. The second thing they focussed on was Lance's attention to detail in terms of his equipment. He had a HUGE team who pulled apart every piece of his equipment to salvage any weight or wind resistance advantage they could.

The program got me thinking that if Lance could have afforded this massive team to help with his technical gear, maybe he also had an equivalent team of medico's working on some other 'gear' that stayed a step ahead of detection?

Obviously it's a pretty touchy subject in cycling, especially surrounding Lance. He was and still is the most drug tested athlete on the planet and has never returned a failed result. For him to have come back from his illness like he did, especially given the extent to which he had it and the fact that he was never supposed to be capable of doing anything even slightly strenuous if he did recover is nothing short of amazing.

[Grahaml]

My personal feeling is that Lance was clean. However, I hate the feeling in my gut that just maybe......Would love to be told in 10 years time with advances in detection that they can test retrospectively and Lance was the best while staying within the rules even as his rivals lost while cheating. Would be fantastic for the sport if they could do it, and test all top ten finishers, stage winners, jersey contenders from 95 or so onwards to show whether the sport was getting cleaner and how unclean it really was. Not sure if it will/could happen but there must be a chance some test can be done in the future to clear up the question marks that sadly hover above every TDF rider.

Anyway, life bans for first offences won't work if dealt out officially. I think riders might be able to go through legal processes to turn that over. But they can't complain like that if teams just refuse to sign them up.

Ricco has been sacked by his team apparently. Peipoli as well, and I have no idea why. Very interesting to sack someone like that who appeared a decent rider. Might be more behind that than I know ATM.

[Pidge]

Hopefully Cadel can hold his yellow jersey in the pirenese over the next 3 stages, if not he will need to be around a minute behind at most before the last time trial

[Grahaml]

Pyranees are done. Now it's the Alps. Tonight he won't lose time IMHO because the main climb is too early for a serious contender to try to attack on. The stage to decide Evan's fate will be L'Alpe d'Huez after le Col de la Croix de Fer. That will be the toughest stage this year and I can imagine even CSC will find one of their main hopes might get isolated with Evans, Menchov and Vandevelde plus maybe a couple other serious climbers on the last climb.

[Pidge]

Fair enough. Seems you're fairly in the know with Cycling. Hopefully Cadel can do us proud

[MightyEagles]

Cadel has slipped back to 3rd and is 8 seconds back.

[Swamp Donkey]

Whilst drugs are a huge issue in cycling and will be for while unfortunately, until one has been proven guilty I find it really disrespectful to label guys like Armstrong as suspect. Lets not forget that samples from riders whom rode 10-15 years ago are being tested all the time. Armstrong won the race 7 times and has never been found guilty of using drugs. Its not like he has never been tested, IMHO his urine samples would have come under the most scrutiny over this period than any other rider in history and it has been shown to be clear, which makes his efforts even more incredible.

I think Armstrong has been treated terribly. It seems every time a rider tests positive, Lance Armstrong is brought up, and it happens again and again. Why not treat him like a champion unless proven otherwsie. I think he has earnt that right and respect.

[Squawk]

Cadel has slipped back to 3rd and is 8 seconds back.

Not really a bad outcome but Cadel still needs to perform in the next 2 Mountain stages. Whilst the time gaps are as bunched as they are at the top, they need to ideally stay like this from Cadel's perspective. As others have said, if he is within a minute of the leader by the time trial, he has a mighty show of taking overall honours.

The Alp d'Huez climb on Wed night will be the stage to watch for anyone who would like to watch just one stage. Massive night, massive climbs, massive outcomes for the general classification.

[MightyEagles]

Cadel now in 4th 1.34 behind after stage 18. Keep with in reach tonight and he'll be a real change in the TT tomorrow night.

[Dogwatcher]

Can anyone tell me why the cyclists are grabbing/throwing away newspapers during the race?

[PLETTONIC]

The reason why they grab the newspaper is to use it as insulation going down the mountains to fight against catching a cold.

Cadel is still the favorite to win overall and I will be watching with interest Sat night to see him claim the Malliot Jaune

[rogernumber10]

Can any of the bike experts tell me at what time he will take off on Saturday night, presumably some time between midnight and 1am as he'll be right at the end. Also, do they go off at 60 / 90 or 120 second intervals for this time trial? Been watching a fair bit this week and want to watch all of this key stage and need to make sure Saturday night footy commitments can be out of the way.

[Dogwatcher]

Very wise thinking Rog.

[Brock Landers]

Can any of the bike experts tell me at what time he will take off on Saturday night, presumably some time between midnight and 1am as he'll be right at the end. Also, do they go off at 60 / 90 or 120 second intervals for this time trial? Been watching a fair bit this week and want to watch all of this key stage and need to make sure Saturday night footy commitments can be out of the way.

It's going to be an absolute cracker on Sat night. I'm going to try and watch it.

[MightyEagles]

Can any of the bike experts tell me at what time he will take off on Saturday night, presumably some time between midnight and 1am as he'll be right at the end. Also, do they go off at 60 / 90 or 120 second intervals for this time trial? Been watching a fair bit this week and want to watch all of this key stage and need to make sure Saturday night footy commitments can be out of the way.

It could be either 60 seconds or 120, not sure, just have to watch to find out.

[magpie in the 80's]

this might help

Race organizers can adjust starting time gaps between riders, but most time trials begin with riders leaving a starting ramp 2 minutes apart. Cyclists compete in the reverse order of their position in the General Classification (the current standings). If a faster rider is about to overtake a slower rider, he must pass while leaving at least a 2-meter distance to prevent drafting, which is illegal only at this point in the race. A passed slower rider then must ride at least 25 meters behind to prevent him from getting the drafting benefits of a slipstream from the leading rider.