clipsal 500

[Wedgie]

Is it true that track times for the karts are very close to the V8's around the track ?? My 1992 programme for the Grand Prix has Jim Richards lap record for Touring cars at 1.40.72
S.Rindestrom lap record for 250cc Karts at 1.37.99.....
and I believe the longest straight that would favour the V8's does not even apply to the current track for the Clipsal 250x2 race so the gap could now be even worse. Yes they have made it apparently close even racing but so are sloth races.

You are comparing a car that is in a completely different category than is around now, up against an open wheel race car. The Superkarts are extremely quick. The longer strait in the grand prix circuit was an advantage to the superkarts, not the Touring Cars.

Im a V8 fan and no mechanical expert but I think you've got things arse up there, the karts would have a very low (comparatively) top speed but are ultra quick around corners because of their low base, the longer straight would definately be an advantage to a V8s as they take longer to hit their top speed than karts do?

[RustyCage]

Is it true that track times for the karts are very close to the V8's around the track ?? My 1992 programme for the Grand Prix has Jim Richards lap record for Touring cars at 1.40.72
S.Rindestrom lap record for 250cc Karts at 1.37.99.....
and I believe the longest straight that would favour the V8's does not even apply to the current track for the Clipsal 250x2 race so the gap could now be even worse. Yes they have made it apparently close even racing but so are sloth races.

You are comparing a car that is in a completely different category than is around now, up against an open wheel race car. The Superkarts are extremely quick. The longer strait in the grand prix circuit was an advantage to the superkarts, not the Touring Cars.

Im a V8 fan and no mechanical expert but I think you've got things arse up there, the karts would have a very low (comparatively) top speed but are ultra quick around corners because of their low base, the longer straight would definately be an advantage to a V8s as they take longer to hit their top speed than karts do?

From what I understand (which isn't a lot!!) the V8s have a higher top speed but take longer to get there than the superkarts. I remember reading something from during the GP days that the superkarts have a higher average speed down the Brabham Straight. Dont quote me though. Saw the superkarts at Mallala a couple of years ago and they are bloody quick in a straight line.

[Wedgie]

From what I understand (which isn't a lot!!) the V8s have a higher top speed but take longer to get there than the superkarts. I remember reading something from during the GP days that the superkarts have a higher average speed down the Brabham Straight. Dont quote me though. Saw the superkarts at Mallala a couple of years ago and they are bloody quick in a straight line.

Well from my understanding of physics and maths surely if the V8s have a higher top speed but take longer to get there then a longer straight would suit them?

[RustyCage]

From what I understand (which isn't a lot!!) the V8s have a higher top speed but take longer to get there than the superkarts. I remember reading something from during the GP days that the superkarts have a higher average speed down the Brabham Straight. Dont quote me though. Saw the superkarts at Mallala a couple of years ago and they are bloody quick in a straight line.

Well from my understanding of physics and maths surely if the V8s have a higher top speed but take longer to get there then a longer straight would suit them?

Yep

(hides back in the corner)

[Rushby Hinds]

hursday Possible light shower. Min 15 Max 24
Friday Possible light shower. Min 14 Max 22


Much better then 44!


(Karts are much better under brakes)

[redden whites]

Yep

(hides back in the corner)

I accept your apologies

[Sam_goUUUdogs]

Sam, may be on my own yet Thursday, assuming you are in the same stand will catch up.

I note the long range weather forecast is 24....with rain for Thursday!

Rather that then 42


And Wedgie, Motor Sport is 1000000000% better live then on TV. I love it, and will spend all 4 days there from sun up to sun rise.

Go gold, get the reserved seat, then you can wander around and get back to your spot.

Sam and I have seats in the best stand in the track, and no, we aren't telling anybody where it is

Yes in the same stand, all 4 days, would not give those seats up for anything.
Heard our stand will be getting a roof next year, which should be brilliant for when its 42, abit cooler this year will be nice, wont be bright red for work on the monday

[Sam_goUUUdogs]

As for the F1 vs V8 debate, i love motorsport but the F1's tend to bore the shit out of me, give me a touring car race on a street circuit anyday, particularly when you are there live, for me the 2 just dont compare, V8 supercars by far.

[yeva]

Is it true that track times for the karts are very close to the V8's around the track ?? My 1992 programme for the Grand Prix has Jim Richards lap record for Touring cars at 1.40.72
S.Rindestrom lap record for 250cc Karts at 1.37.99.....
and I believe the longest straight that would favour the V8's does not even apply to the current track for the Clipsal 250x2 race so the gap could now be even worse. Yes they have made it apparently close even racing but so are sloth races.

Just for the record the F1 lap record at the time was 1.12 22.......thus the premier league

quicker for sure, that doesnt mean its better.
if the f1's get tapped(hit) in any way their out of the race, or they can lead from start to finish... not my idea of a spectacle..
you need to see them live, plus its more affordable for all to attend the v8's....

[Felch]

Heres something to ponder...

Ford have just released their new BG Falcon at the weekend (Nice looking car, by the way).

The Ford CEO has refused to commit to them building another Falcon at the Geelong plant after this model, which would probably mean after 2011, the Falcon would cease to exist.

Where does this leave the V8 Supercar series ? I cant see Ford V8 fans getting behind a Mondeo with a V8 engine dropped in it. It would also take a large financial commitment from Ford to do something like this, and the Ford Motor Company is well known for pulling out of motor racing in this country at the drop of a hat.

It could leave the V8 championship as a one-make series - something which just wouldnt work, IMO.

The SA Government has made a long term commitment to holding the Clipsal 500, but that may mean squat if the V8 series ceased to exist.

Any thoughts anyone ?

[RustyCage]

Heres something to ponder...

Ford have just released their new BG Falcon at the weekend (Nice looking car, by the way).

The Ford CEO has refused to commit to them building another Falcon at the Geelong plant after this model, which would probably mean after 2011, the Falcon would cease to exist.

Where does this leave the V8 Supercar series ? I cant see Ford V8 fans getting behind a Mondeo with a V8 engine dropped in it. It would also take a large financial commitment from Ford to do something like this, and the Ford Motor Company is well known for pulling out of motor racing in this country at the drop of a hat.

It could leave the V8 championship as a one-make series - something which just wouldnt work, IMO.

The SA Government has made a long term commitment to holding the Clipsal 500, but that may mean squat if the V8 series ceased to exist.

Any thoughts anyone ?

Hard to tell as its a few years off yet, but there were Ford V8s built in this country before the Falcon so there will probably be Ford V8s built after it. Im guessing something else will replace it and it will be same thing, different name.

[Felch]

Thats the thing, once the Falcon is gone, there wont be a large family car made by Ford in this country.

Im pretty sure (someone correct me if im wrong), the engine currently used in the Falcon V8 Supercar is made in the US. The engine will continue to be available, but the chassis/body they drop it into will not. This is why the V8 governing body has been so keen for a 3rd manufacturer to get onboard ie. Toyota.

[Wedgie]

Stuff the Mondeo, Ive been after Ford to import Mustangs for 20 years, rebadge them as Falcons and I'll be very happy!

BG probably will be a good model to get (I got the Mk 2 BF) as Ford have rushed it out to get it out in time to conform with old emission standards which change half way through this year and it uses a proven engine, the next model wont.

[Dirko]

Toyota would be a choice ??

[Felch]

Number one problem with the Toyota is front-wheel drive, so to put an Aurion in the Supercar series would take a massive investment on Toyota's behalf - which unless they get increased sales from, they would be very reluctant to do.

Also, can you imagine many people heading off to the Clipsal, decked out in their Toyota gear !

Wedgie, a Mustang running around in the Supercar series would be great - have you seen the orange one in the showroom at Maughan Thiem at the moment ?

I think the BG Falcon will end up having a Mazda V6 in it down the track, the same or similar as in the new CX-9 (sure i read this somewhere?). Should still be a good engine.
I currently have a BF, and intend to upgrade to the BG when my lease is up. Pretty happy with my BF, not so the Ford service department where i WAS taking it, but thats another story

[BIG SEXY]

i think FOMOCO will replace the falcon with something similar. just because its not built at geelong doesnt mean they are dropping it completely. every chance it will be built o.s and imported. i cant see FOMOCO dropping the V8 series, they have a large supporter base in AVESCO and thats where they get alot of their loyalty from.
as for running toyota or mazda or nissan, the main reason they arent so far is because none of these manufacturers build a v8 rear wheel drive sedan that is australian delivered. massive cash injections would be required by an international builder for what is essentialy a small market.
id be pretty confident in assuming AVESCO have contacted the jap builders about running in the series at some stage (wasnt there alot of talk about it 4-5 years ago?) and once again im assuming they showed limited interest.

[Felch]

World-wide trends are suggesting otherwise though. The Geelong plant is going to start building the Focus in the next few years.

It will be very interesting to see what would replace the Falcon if it ceased to exist. Something would replace it, for sure, but there would be serious doubts whether Ford would invest the money needed to continue with it in the V8 Supercar series. As i said before, Ford have a history of pulling out of motorsport at the drop of a hat.

I hope it doesnt happen, but it would be naive to think couldnt though.

[RustyCage]

id be pretty confident in assuming AVESCO have contacted the jap builders about running in the series at some stage (wasnt there alot of talk about it 4-5 years ago?) and once again im assuming they showed limited interest.

Its the opposite. O/S car manufactueres have contacted AVESCO about joining the series, and apart from none of them meeting the entry requirements of the series, AVESCO have said they want it as Ford v Holden for the near future as that battle is where the interest is with most viewers. Also, they said the two car companies have spent an incredible amount of money on the promotion of the series to get it up to the level it is today, and they deserve to reap the benefits of that.

Adding a whole bunch of other car manufaturers to the series will make it the same as the British Touring car Championship which has gone downhill significantly over the last few years.

[heater31]

id be pretty confident in assuming AVESCO have contacted the jap builders about running in the series at some stage (wasnt there alot of talk about it 4-5 years ago?) and once again im assuming they showed limited interest.

Its the opposite. O/S car manufactueres have contacted AVESCO about joining the series, and apart from none of them meeting the entry requirements of the series, AVESCO have said they want it as Ford v Holden for the near future as that battle is where the interest is with most viewers. Also, they said the two car companies have spent an incredible amount of money on the promotion of the series to get it up to the level it is today, and they deserve to reap the benefits of that.

Adding a whole bunch of other car manufaturers to the series will make it the same as the British Touring car Championship which has gone downhill significantly over the last few years.

and In today's tiser the boss of of the supercar's board has put forward a discussion paper of his personal opinion that the licenses for the top series be reduced and encourage the div 2 boys to aspire to compete in the 2 enduros with financial incentives.

If another manufacturer was to be allowed in then they must build a suitable car for the australian market, sell it on the market for a year or so then be allowed to enter the div 2 series and work their way up.

[Felch]

When it all boils down though, as long as the car entered meets the Supercar specs, then it doesnt really matter about them selling it to the public. There just isnt room in the Aussie market for another 'Big 6' family car, just ask Mitsubishi. Thats why the only realistic car manufacturer who could enter would be Toyota, with an Aurion. Remember, V8 Supercars are really only just Falcon/Commodore shells. They share no other parts in common with the models on Australian roads.

I have always thought the Chrysler 300C would look pretty smart as a V8 Supercar. That may even bring some old Charger fans out of the woodwork !!!