Penaltys

[mal]

Bayman gets the ball passes to Dutchy
Dutchy baulks weaves is about to shoot
And gets fouled in the Penalty box
PENALTY
Ecky takes the penalty and converts
GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

Thats a scenario
QUESTIONS

A Should the player who was fouled [Dutchy] take the kick
B Why should Ecky[who scored the penalty] get the kick
C Should the penalty be a goal in the stats to Ecky [who scored] or Dutchy[who was fouled]
D should the goal be a team goal and not awarded to any player

I recall watching Man Utd games a fair bit about a decade ago
Man Utd , who seemingly get thier fair share of penaltys got thier speciallist penalty converter Rudi Van Oosteroy[spelling ?] to take them
From memory he got the most goals that season, but may not of if he didnt get the penalties


MY OPINION
It should go to the player that was fouled
Unless he is incapacitated after that particular foul
At very worst the fouled played played should be credited with the goal

[JK]

It can be difficult to comprehend Mal for those of us coming from an Aussie Rules background, but I don't think there's too many problems with how it operates.

The player who wins the penalty gets awarded the "Assist" if the spot-kick is converted, as I understand it.

[Il Duce]

ruud van nistelrooy.


I'm happy the way it is, who ever scores it should get it.

[RoosterMarty]

Rudi Van Oosteroy was a total gun.


CP is right as well, the winner of the penalty gets the assists, I just thought of something though.. what if the winner of the penalty takes the kick and scores it? Do they get a goal AND assist?

The way it is at the moment is fine as well.

[johntheclaret]

It's only in recent years that the "assist" has been introduced.

Who takes it is credited with the goal and that's fine as it is imo Grezza, Grezza, Grezza

[redandblack]

I agree with you 100%, Mal. I've asked this question before.

A penalty is presumably awarded to compensate for a foul on a player in a position to possibly score.

Why on earth should someone who might have been 50 metres away score a goal?

Totally illogiical.

Don't get me started on penalties - I saw the last Melbourne one against Adelaide.

[gadj1976]

Agree, it's like fouling a bloke in basketball and having their best shooter take the shots. (Tech foul aside).

If some dud is in the box, chop him down I say.....if you give away the penalty so be it.

[whufc]

I agree with you 100%, Mal. I've asked this question before.

A penalty is presumably awarded to compensate for a foul on a player in a position to possibly score.

Why on earth should someone who might have been 50 metres away score a goal?

Totally illogiical.

Don't get me started on penalties - I saw the last Melbourne one against Adelaide.

Its the same rule for all over the ground, any player can take any free kick, throw in, corner, penalty no matter where they are, it's very consistent.

Other sports such as AFL are all over the place, around the ground it's whoever has the ball takes the free kicks, when it's out of bounds on the full its pretty much whoever can get there the fastest and when another team kicks a point you can get any player from any position to take it. very inconsistent.

[redandblack]

It might be consistent, but it's totally illogical.

As for Aussie Rules being all over the place, you're kidding? Is it all over the place for the free kick to go to the player who has been 'fouled', or the nearest player if it's OOB on the full?

Goals in soccer are rare and celebrated greatly. So player A scores 10 goals in a season and 6 are from penalties he had nothing to do with, so his stats make him look good for no reason at all.

[whufc]

It might be consistent, but it's totally illogical.

As for Aussie Rules being all over the place, you're kidding? Is it all over the place for the free kick to go to the player who has been 'fouled', or the nearest player if it's OOB on the full?

Goals in soccer are rare and celebrated greatly. So player A scores 10 goals in a season and 6 are from penalties he had nothing to do with, so his stats make him look good for no reason at all.

all over the place it is, there is 3 different rules for the exact same decision a 'free kick'.

i think most soccer pundits realise players who score most of thier goals from the spot and are judged accordingly, no team plays a player just because they can take a good penalty, it's really a non issue at all.

[johntheclaret]

It might be consistent, but it's totally illogical.

As for Aussie Rules being all over the place, you're kidding? Is it all over the place for the free kick to go to the player who has been 'fouled', or the nearest player if it's OOB on the full?

Goals in soccer are rare and celebrated greatly. So player A scores 10 goals in a season and 6 are from penalties he had nothing to do with, so his stats make him look good for no reason at all.

all over the place it is, there is 3 different rules for the exact same decision a 'free kick'.

i think most soccer pundits realise players who score most of thier goals from the spot and are judged accordingly, no team plays a player just because they can take a good penalty, it's really a non issue at all.

Graham Alexander at Burnley

[Sir Red of Norwood]

In modern football(soccer) a players stats are recorded to take into account the amount of times they scored "from the spot" For example Melbourne Victory's kent of a captain Muscat, Kevin is a gun from the penalty spot, but no one would confuse him with Archie Thompson who is pretty good(Vics would say great!) natural striker)

The earlier point about if the attacking bloke with the ball is crap & couldn't hit a barn with a shotgun from 10yds so why not hack him down and take your chances with the keeper saving the pen?Its pretty simple: If a defender denies an attacking player who is "through on goal" by committing a foul in the 18yd box, then not only is a penalty to be awarded, but the punishment is then compounded by the issue of a Red card to the offending defender, meaning the odds are the defending team in this instance will go one goal and one man down for the remainder of the game. If the defender commits the foul denying the attacker through on goal but not in the defenders 18yd box, then the defender still could/should be sent off, the resulting free kick is taken from the place the foul occurred. It is only if that foul occurs in the box that it is a pen. One of the great things about football is that unlike Aussie rules, the basic rules stay the same from season to season. A player from the 1890's besides being slower and wearing heavier equipment, would still recognise the fundamentals of the game as being the same game he/she played. might even get a kick if they trained and gained some match fitness.Can't say the same thing about my 2nd love, Aussie Rules.(unfortunately) Last major rule changes I remember for football occurred in the 80's approx are no backpass rule and the crackdown on tackling from behind. All of which have contributed to a faster more skillful game IMHO.

My Opinion: I think this is one area that the SANFL NEEDS to market more obviously, the local game IS the game you grew up watching with your Dad, same teams, same grounds, mostly the same rules, same toughness at the ball (unlike the AFL which has constantly tinkered at the rules until the game now looks more like 18 on 18 basket ball played outdoors than ther game I grew up with:(

[whufc]

In modern football(soccer) a players stats are recorded to take into account the amount of times they scored "from the spot" For example Melbourne Victory's kent of a captain Muscat, Kevin is a gun from the penalty spot, but no one would confuse him with Archie Thompson who is pretty good(Vics would say great!) natural striker)

The earlier point about if the attacking bloke with the ball is crap & couldn't hit a barn with a shotgun from 10yds so why not hack him down and take your chances with the keeper saving the pen?Its pretty simple: If a defender denies an attacking player who is "through on goal" by committing a foul in the 18yd box, then not only is a penalty to be awarded, but the punishment is then compounded by the issue of a Red card to the offending defender, meaning the odds are the defending team in this instance will go one goal and one man down for the remainder of the game. If the defender commits the foul denying the attacker through on goal but not in the defenders 18yd box, then the defender still could/should be sent off, the resulting free kick is taken from the place the foul occurred. It is only if that foul occurs in the box that it is a pen. One of the great things about footbasll is that unlike Aussie rules, the basic rules stay the same from season to season. A player from the 1890's besides being slower and wearing heavier equipment, would still recognise the fundamentals of the game as being the same game he/she played. might even get a kick if they trained and gained some match fitness.Can't say the same thing about my 2nd love, Aussie Rules.(unfortunately) Last major rule changes I remember for football occurred in the 80's approx are no backpass rule and the crackdown on tackling from behind. All of which have contributed to a faster more skillful game IMHO.

My Opinion: I think this is one area that the SANFL NEEDS to market more obviously, the local game IS the game you grew up watching with your Dad, same teams, same grounds, mostly the same rules, same toughness at the ball (unlike the AFL which has constantly tinkered at the rules until the game now looks more like 18 on 18 basket ball played outdoors than ther game I grew up with:(

great post 100% spot on imho.

[devilsadvocate]

Top post Sir Red!! Agree with all of that!

Which proper football team(s) do you follow?

Spot on with the SANFL bit too. It's the way football is supposed to be played. I've got a Magpies season ticket this year rather than a Power ST purely because it's a far more entertaining brand of footy in the SANFL. I'll still go to the Power a bit, but the SANFL is just so much better to watch.

Anyhoo, back on track - I don't have a problem with any player being able to take a penalty. If a forward is hacked down when he's through on goal, the attacking side should have full advantage and be able to send up their strongest spot kicker.

Love the bit about muskent That's hilarious!

[Sir Red of Norwood]

Proper football teams I follow:
The mighty Reds of Adelaide United
The Blades of Sheffield - started following them in the 80's when an old mate Carl Veart got signed by them from AdelCity, hard habit to shake!
Willem II from Holland - dad's hometown team.
I turn out regularly to watch Para Hills in the local leagues - one of the things I love about real football is that even at park/local level you can see moments of brilliance and enjoy the game. I struggle to watch lower levels of Aussie rules with its fumble-a-thon feeling.
I just love watching 'proper' football and would much rather watch almost any game with a round ball than an AFL game. I Hold a Norwood ST, much rather watch them than the Crows. If I'm going to watch Aussie Rules, I'd much rather watch 'real' Aussie Rules than the pseudo-game the ALF has turned into.
Anyone playing Melbourne Victory and Anyone playing Man Utd
Off to the World Cup later this year, been dreaming about it since Italia 90, just be glad I got to see Australia play at the highest level, back in the 90's who'd have thought eh?

[RoosterMarty]

There are moments of brilliance in lower league aussie rules too I'm sure and I've seen many crap games of association football. A lot of hoof ball involved - even at A-League level that happens a lot with defenders struggle to connect with a 5 yard pass so they simply boot the crap out of it.

[Sir Red of Norwood]

You are right to a point Marty, one of the great things about a league only 5 years old is that a lot of people have been watching from the very beginning(like me) I've noticed that the standard of the league has improved markedly over the short period it has been active. Honestly, it felt like a step down in season one from the best games of the NSL (I wonder if that was the rose coloured glasses from times past) but I dead-set believe that the team that won the premiership in S1(Adelaide) would struggle to even win a game in the most recent season. defenders are playing the ball out from the back, wingers are attempting to beat their man, race for the by-line and cross it in for fast running forwards. The coaching is improving, the fitness of the players and the skill levels of the layers are definitely improving. One area we really need to see improvement in though is the refereeing. IMHO it is the biggest stumbling block to consistently entertaining games. I believe we need a full time referees panel, with the best refs going over seas to guest-ref in the best leagues of Europe. In the same way our players improve by heading to Europe, I cant see why sending refs to train(reffing might be a FIFA/UEFA issue) with their Euro colleagues wouldn't benefit the league overall. Once the transfer of knowledge occurs then the local refs can understudy the more experienced blokes with the whistle.

[Raking Left Foot]

Correct

[devilsadvocate]

One area we really need to see improvement in though is the refereeing. IMHO it is the biggest stumbling block to consistently entertaining games. I believe we need a full time referees panel, with the best refs going over seas to guest-ref in the best leagues of Europe. In the same way our players improve by heading to Europe, I cant see why sending refs to train(reffing might be a FIFA/UEFA issue) with their Euro colleagues wouldn't benefit the league overall. Once the transfer of knowledge occurs then the local refs can understudy the more experienced blokes with the whistle.

I'd rather our refs stayed away from the likes of Howard Webb or the Norwegian Tom Henning Ovrebo!!!

So you're going to South Africa! Lucky bastard! I'm planning on heading over to the World Cup in England in either 2018 or 2022, but at this stage, it's just a pipe dream.

We want photo's and match reports from SAin June and hopefully July!!!