The Windies

[FlyingHigh]

Obviously copped a shellacking in the first test, and have been put to the sword by the media.

But do they have a bit to work with? I will say I didn't get to see great amounts of the first two days, but my impressions are there are youngsters with a bit of talent and more importantly a bit of spirit, and they were/are being shockingly let down by their more senior players:
Roach looks like a good prospect, and as Ian Chappell pointed out, was still bowling as quick at 5.30 as 11. The way he troubled Ponting just after lunch on the first day was great to watch (from a cricket viewpoint).
Rampaul looks like he will give an honest, workhorse effort from one end without being a strike bowler.
Barath's innings was very good. I thought he was a bit unlucky to be given out - I wonder if he was given not out whether the Aussies would have referred the decision?
Dowlin was thrown to the wolves a bit at no. 3, but gutsed it out in the first innings. While he may not be a Test no. 3 yet, if Sarwan bats at 3, Dowlin can be more than useful at no 6.

Compare this to some of the more experienced players:
Gayle's unwillingness to work hard with the bat.
Nash's cut shot dismissal in the first innings, and soft dismissal in the second.
Chanderpaul, Bravo and Taylor's hookshots in the second innings. Bravo, in particular, being set, good partnership and scoring rate with little trouble, to get out to Hussaey that way five minutes before tea Similarly, Taylor, who isn't an all-rounder but can hold a bat, was terribly irresponsible.

[dedja]

One of the Windies biggest problem is their weak administrators for not intilling the Farmer's Union motto into the squad ... Toughen The F.U.I.C Up.

The players consider that they've made it when they reach international level. They think that they're movie stars and won't do the hard work required to succeed at international level.

Yes, there are occassions when they rise to the challenge, but not consistently.

It means more to have a diamond stud in an earlobe than to fight for their country ... but that's the other side of the problem, the West Indies is not a country but a collection of disunified countries under the one banner.

The fact the Chris Gayle is captain with his history of antics is testamony to the position that their authorities have allowed themselves to be in.

There is poor grassroots funding back home, their youth are flocking to other sports, their facilities are poor and they can't prepare decent pitches.

They need strong leadership off the field to rectify all this but sadly this is lacking, regardless of any emerging sporadic talent that comes onto the scene.

They will be in the doldrums for many years to come ... a sad situation in world cricket.

[mal]

FHigh
I posted something similar in the summary of the First Test
They are in a transition mode
There comes a time when all clubs, nations, empires will hit the bottom
Port in the SANFL dominated the 20th century is an example
Alexander the Great had the Greeks firing in BC times and they dominated back then


WI FWIW have been great entertainers
This 2009 lot might be down and almost out, but I noticed they took AU on in the first test and played attacking cricket
By being attacking it looks bad when they got beaten at the Gabba
FH is right there is enough to work with

One pressman said they wont ever make it to the top
Big big statement
They have had individuals with enourmous natural talent since thier inception into Test cricket
They have dominated cricket in the late 70s and 80s and part of the nineties
They have a breed of talent in thier backyards, natural gifted athletical men

ALL that is needed is someone like Sanford to channell some $$$$ into a failing domestic system there and they can again rise to be a super team

[FlyingHigh]

One of the Windies biggest problem is their weak administrators for not intilling the Farmer's Union motto into the squad ... Toughen The F.U.I.C Up.

The players consider that they've made it when they reach international level. They think that they're movie stars and won't do the hard work required to succeed at international level.

Yes, there are occassions when they rise to the challenge, but not consistently.

It means more to have a diamond stud in an earlobe than to fight for their country ... but that's the other side of the problem, the West Indies is not a country but a collection of disunified countries under the one banner.

The fact the Chris Gayle is captain with his history of antics is testamony to the position that their authorities have allowed themselves to be in.

There is poor grassroots funding back home, their youth are flocking to other sports, their facilities are poor and they can't prepare decent pitches.

They need strong leadership off the field to rectify all this but sadly this is lacking, regardless of any emerging sporadic talent that comes onto the scene.

They will be in the doldrums for many years to come ... a sad situation in world cricket.

Yes, Dedj, all these are big problems that contribute to their plight.
Fully agree that in the past decade there has been the feeling that make the Test team is having "made" it, and instant celelbrities dining out on their Mr Casual demeanour and that is why i pointed to the attitude of some of the senior players. I was a bit heartened by the fact the younger players seemed to be up for a scrap.
True, being a collection of countries makes it difficult, but this has always been the case even with the great teams of the past. Or was success covering up the sins?

[dedja]

That's the saddest part ... there is some talent coming through but how are they going to end up in that toxic environment?

Maybe the success of the 80's covered over the cracks, but they have had great players for quite a while before that ... even when they came here in '76 and were walloped 5-1 they had some great talent. Lloyd, Richards, Greenidge, Fredricks, Rowe, Holding, Roberts just to name a few, and of course the greats like Gary Sobers, Frank Worrell, Wes Hall and Rohan Kanhai before them.

I wish I knew what has gone wrong and I'm sure they do to.

[Rik E Boy]

but that's the other side of the problem, the West Indies is not a country but a collection of disunified countries under the one banner.

You made many fine points but this wasn't one of them. The Political situation was the same when they dominated World Cricket for two decades so it isn't the reason for their current malaise.

regards,

REB

[dedja]

but that's the other side of the problem, the West Indies is not a country but a collection of disunified countries under the one banner.

You made many fine points but this wasn't one of them. The Political situation was the same when they dominated World Cricket for two decades so it isn't the reason for their current malaise.

regards,

REB

Yes true, the political situation hasn't changed but for the players and administrators there is a lack of identity which wasn't an issue in years gone by ... why, I'm not sure.

[whufc]

Chappelli made a great point about how the current WI players are all about the style and being cool man, while the blokes of the 70's 80's always looked cool and calm they had a burning desire to succed and be the best which didn't always reflect on the outside, these new WI need to learn that fact in a hurry.

[The Cadet]

At full strength this West Indies team is full of potential. There batting lineup is better than the Englands 2009 Ashes winning team and there bowling has some promising quicks in Roach, Rampul and Tonge. Benn is a qualitiy spinner and Ramdin is a good keeper who can handle the bat. There main problem is there fielding, imagine if they caught the simple catches of Hussey and Hauritz.

[locky801]

Not far off the mark Cadet, I think Sarwan coming back in will make a huge difference to their top/middle order, unfortunately they have a bit of a long tail but Benn looked ok in the 1st dig and could be a handy number 9. Lets remember they lost their main strike bowler just after lunch on Day 1 and has been pointed out they dropped a few easy catches. The media seem to be writing this series off already, I'm not so sure as yet, they have a kid at the top of the order that has a go, Gayle wont be as bad next test and either will Chandapaul, and with Sarwan back there, it doesnt look too bad

[stan]

Not far off the mark Cadet, I think Sarwan coming back in will make a huge difference to their top/middle order, unfortunately they have a bit of a long tail but Benn looked ok in the 1st dig and could be a handy number 9. Lets remember they lost their main strike bowler just after lunch on Day 1 and has been pointed out they dropped a few easy catches. The media seem to be writing this series off already, I'm not so sure as yet, they have a kid at the top of the order that has a go, Gayle wont be as bad next test and either will Chandapaul, and with Sarwan back there, it doesnt look too bad

Also add to the fact that Dowlin, even though he struggled in the second dig, looks like he has got a bit of grit about him and will hang around for a bit. If Gayle and Barath fire up at the top of the order then our boys will have some serious work in front of them.

[mal]

HUGHES WANTS WINDIES AXED
Today former Australian cricket capatian and cry baby Kim Hugues says the Windies should be axed from Test Cricket

Yeah real good good call by Kim, another who says the Windies are in dissaray and not good enough
Has he forgotten the team he wants axed was arguably the greatest team the world has seen only 2 decades ago
Its called cycles
Today they are down
In the future they might be up again

QUESTION
If the Windies are that bad how did a teenager make 100 on debut against us ?

[jackpot jim]

Agree with you MAL, yeah, great call by Kim Hughes calling for the Windies to be axed from Test cricket.
Yeah . thats right, axe a team that BEAT England in a Test series earlier this year who subsequently beat Australia.
Well, whilst we're at sacking teams, lets get rid of Sri Lanka, just got beaten by an innings by India, they must be in disarray.
Was Hughes calling for Australia to be dropped from Test competition back when he was captain and in DISARRAY? of course not.
What a WANKER and cry baby.
Just another piece of Garbage cricket journalism that fills our daily papers.

[Rik E Boy]

At full strength this West Indies team is full of potential. There batting lineup is better than the Englands 2009 Ashes winning team and there bowling has some promising quicks in Roach, Rampul and Tonge. Benn is a qualitiy spinner and Ramdin is a good keeper who can handle the bat. There main problem is there fielding, imagine if they caught the simple catches of Hussey and Hauritz.

Surprise surprise Thisvic, I have to disagree with you again. Chanderpaul's concentration appears shot and it all looks to hard for Gayle and Sarwan is inconsistent at best. The youngsters are very much an unknown quantity. Cook, Struass, Bell, KP, Collingwood, the new bloke (forget his name but he made runs) and Prior is far superior to the top seven that the Windies trot out. Bravo at six? They can't bat for shit mate.

regards,

REB

[Rik E Boy]

HUGHES WANTS WINDIES AXED
Today former Australian cricket capatian and cry baby Kim Hugues says the Windies should be axed from Test Cricket

Yeah real good good call by Kim, another who says the Windies are in dissaray and not good enough
Has he forgotten the team he wants axed was arguably the greatest team the world has seen only 2 decades ago
Its called cycles
Today they are down
In the future they might be up again

QUESTION
If the Windies are that bad how did a teenager make 100 on debut against us ?

They probably wanted us axed in 1984/85 when they beat us in back to back series and bowled us out for 76 in Perth. Barath made more than that on his own. No, this is Hughes getting his revenge after the Windies humilated him and ended his test career in a flood tears. Harden the **** up Hughesy.

regards,

REB

[Dogwatcher]

Kim Hughes - the new Neil Harvey.

[Dogwatcher]

This could be a rash generalisation, as I'm not overly on top of the political situation in the Caribbean, but...

In the 70s/80s the West Indian teams had a strong political bent. Their countries were in many cases finding their own identities, rather than being just far flung colonies of Empire building nations from Europe. This helped to solidify unity amongst the players, as they were keen to prove to the world, particularly England, that they were strong entities as individuals and individual nations. Anyone remember the blacklash to Tony Grieg's "we're going to make them grovel" comments?
This in turn meant that there was an almost 'black pride' to aspects of their performances and that each player wanted to perform at his best - "to show da world bruther".
In time, that political bent has possibly eroded among the players and now they're just happy to just make the team and say they are players. Greatness is not such a desire.
Hence, that political aspect of the players has eroded and therefore their unity and pride of performance is not as high a priority as it previously was.

As I said, that may be an observation based on stereotypes but from an uneducated pov it could provide some of the reason behind the poor state of West Indian cricket affairs.
REB was correct in pointing out that the West Indies team has always been a collaboration of nations and so that is not a major reason behind the poor current performances but that doesn't mean that the 'team spirit' doesn't wane.

[The Cadet]

At full strength this West Indies team is full of potential. There batting lineup is better than the Englands 2009 Ashes winning team and there bowling has some promising quicks in Roach, Rampul and Tonge. Benn is a qualitiy spinner and Ramdin is a good keeper who can handle the bat. There main problem is there fielding, imagine if they caught the simple catches of Hussey and Hauritz.

Surprise surprise Thisvic, I have to disagree with you again. Chanderpaul's concentration appears shot and it all looks to hard for Gayle and Sarwan is inconsistent at best. The youngsters are very much an unknown quantity. Cook, Struass, Bell, KP, Collingwood, the new bloke (forget his name but he made runs) and Prior is far superior to the top seven that the Windies trot out. Bravo at six? They can't bat for s***t mate.

regards,

REB

Remember I said W.I best side VS Englands 2009 Ashes Team

Gayle
Barath
Sarwon
Chandepaul
Bravo
Nash

Strauss
Cook
Bell
Collingwood
Trott
Prior

Not much difference

[CoverKing]

W.I best side for mine would be rather potent however they just cant get them on the park when they need it!

Gayle
Barath
Sarwan
Chanderpaul
Dowlin
Bravo
Ramdin
Taylor
Benn
Roach
Edwards

For mine that beats Englands ashes

[Rik E Boy]

Remember I said W.I best side VS Englands 2009 Ashes Team

Gayle
Barath
Sarwon
Chandepaul
Bravo
Nash

Strauss
Cook
Bell
Collingwood
Trott
Prior

Not much difference

So you added Sarwon in to the Windies lineup but left out KP who actually played during the Ashes series? You can't have it both ways my friend. You also brought in the Poms' keeper into the top six and left out Freddy.

Gayle
Barath
Sarwon
Chandepaul
Bravo
Nash

Strauss
Cook
KP
Collingwood
Trott
Flintoff

Poms win hands down boys.

regards,

REB