2nd Ashes Test v England @ Lords, the home of MCC/Cricket

[Adelaide Hawk]

Next game is extremely important.

I'd replace Siddle with Clark and Johnson with Lee (if he's fit). We have yet to take 20 wickets this series and changes are needed.

As critical as i have been of Johnson's bowling he cannot and will not get dropped. He is still our best bowler he's just out of form. He can and hopefully will turn it around.

So you subscribe to selecting players on reputation rather than form? That's where Norwood came unstuck

Nope, i subscribe to picking the best players and Johnson is that. What has Clark done to suggest he is a better option than Johnson? Reputation?

Clark puts the ball on the mowed part of the pitch from time to time and makes the batsmen play. Take out a couple of Tests against South Africa, and Johnson really hasn't been Test standard.

[dedja]

Clark puts the ball on the mowed part of the pitch from time to time and makes the batsmen play. Take out a couple of Tests against South Africa, and Johnson really hasn't been Test standard.

OK, I'm going to bite ... sorry, an absolutely ridiculous statement IMO.

[hearts on fire]

I think we are expecting to much from Johnson, he is a good bowler but he isn't going to win matches off his own bowling.

Johnson was great against South Africa, maybe we have just raised our expectations too high.

[rod_rooster]

[

As critical as i have been of Johnson's bowling he cannot and will not get dropped. He is still our best bowler he's just out of form. He can and hopefully will turn it around.

So you subscribe to selecting players on reputation rather than form? That's where Norwood came unstuck

Nope, i subscribe to picking the best players and Johnson is that. What has Clark done to suggest he is a better option than Johnson? Reputation?

Clark puts the ball on the mowed part of the pitch from time to time and makes the batsmen play. Take out a couple of Tests against South Africa, and Johnson really hasn't been Test standard.

What has Clark done recently though? You are suggesting picking him based on reputation because you can't possibly be basing it on anything he's done lately. On Johnson, he's taken 102 wickets in 23 Test matches. I would say that is Test standard not to mention the batting average of 34.59. He is worth his spot.

[Pup]

Clark puts the ball on the mowed part of the pitch from time to time and makes the batsmen play. Take out a couple of Tests against South Africa, and Johnson really hasn't been Test standard.

OK, I'm going to bite ... sorry, an absolutely ridiculous statement IMO.

Is it?

Before the South African tours Johnson has had only one 5 wicket haul and that was against New Zealand in Australia. He was magnificent against South Africa but he still has some obvious flaws that need ironing out, He needs to make batsmen play a hell of a lot more and he needs to bowl more consistently or he will never reach the heights that he should.

No doubting he is an extremely talented cricketer but he still has a lot off work to do before i pump his tyres up to the extent that some posters have been of late.

[rod_rooster]

Clark puts the ball on the mowed part of the pitch from time to time and makes the batsmen play. Take out a couple of Tests against South Africa, and Johnson really hasn't been Test standard.

OK, I'm going to bite ... sorry, an absolutely ridiculous statement IMO.

Is it?

Before the South African tours Johnson has had only one 5 wicket haul and that was against New Zealand in Australia. He was magnificent against South Africa but he still has some obvious flaws that need ironing out, He needs to make batsmen play a hell of a lot more and he needs to bowl more consistently or he will never reach the heights that he should.

No doubting he is an extremely talented cricketer but he still has a lot off work to do before i pump his tyres up to the extent that some posters have been. of late.

I don't disagree with that at all Pup but to suggest he should be dropped is a bit off the mark. He brings more to the side than anyone who could replace him. Everything you have said is right but anyone saying he should br dropped are kidding themselves.

[dedja]

Didn't say Mitch was the best bowler in the history of Test Cricket, but not up to Test standard ... pleeeeaaaase!

The man has only played 20 odd tests and compare his record at this early stage to others... he's doing OK.

Of course he's struggling at the moment but that doesn't diminish past deeds ... he's bowling crap at the moment and somehow is still taking wickets.

You do not win Test matches by your own hand if you not up to Test standard, or you don't bowl at great heights in 2 consecutive series then lose your ability ... confidence yes, ability no.

[rod_rooster]

Didn't say Mitch was the best bowler in the history of Test Cricket, but not up to Test standard ... pleeeeaaaase!

The man has only played 20 odd tests and compare his record at this early stage to others... he's doing OK.

Of course he's struggling at the moment but that doesn't diminish past deeds ... he's bowling crap at the moment and somehow is still taking wickets.

You do not win Test matches by your own hand if you not up to Test standard, or you don't bowl at great heights in 2 consecutive series then lose your ability ... confidence yes, ability no.

Equal of Warne and McGrath for what it's worth.

[dedja]

You're on the same wavelength RR ...

He deserves criticism for his performance on this tour so far, no doubt but to suggest that he has only played a couple of good tests and is not up to Test standard is a NFI statement.

Here's a link to his bowling career to date http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/pla ... ew=innings ... more than 2 good performances there.

[Adelaide Hawk]

He deserves criticism for his performance on this tour so far, no doubt but to suggest that he has only played a couple of good tests and is not up to Test standard is a NFI statement.

Take out the South African series and two Tests against New Zealand, and he hasn't averaged less than 30 in 5 other series in which he's played, and he's bowled some utter goop along the way. Hardly the record of a world class strike bowler.

And you really must cease this annoying habit you have of telling other people they have NFI, or what they should be saying. Just because you disagree, doiesn't make you right.

[rod_rooster]

He deserves criticism for his performance on this tour so far, no doubt but to suggest that he has only played a couple of good tests and is not up to Test standard is a NFI statement.

Take out the South African series and two Tests against New Zealand, and he hasn't averaged less than 30 in 5 other series in which he's played, and he's bowled some utter goop along the way. Hardly the record of a world class strike bowler.

And you really must cease this annoying habit you have of telling other people they have NFI, or what they should be saying. Just because you disagree, doiesn't make you right.

Sure you can take out his better performances and his record won't look as good but the same goes for anyone. Fact is he has performed against the best in South Africa. That surely has to count. Johnson has and continues to bowl some rubbish but his upside is far too impressive to ignore. He has a better average with both bat and ball than Flintoff who most people (no more so than himself) see as a superstar.

[dedja]

In case anyone is interested in Strauss's comments on that catch ... http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 72,00.html

[Gozu]

Performances for the 2nd Test:

Australia

Batting

Hughes-4 & 17
Katich-48 & 6
Ponting-2 & 38
Hussey-51 & 27
Clarke-1 & 136
North-0 & 6
Haddin-28 & 80
Johnson-4 & 63
Hauritz-24 & 1
Siddle-35 & 7
Hilfenhaus-6* & 4*

Bowling

Hilfenhaus-4/103 & 0/59
Johnson-3/132 & 0/68
Siddle-2/76 & 2/64
Hauritz-0/26 & 3/80
North-0/59 & DNB
Clarke-1/12 & 0/15

England

Batting

Strauss-161 & 32
Cook-95 & 32
Bopara-18 & 27
Pietersen-32 & 44
Collingwood-16 & 54
Prior-8 & 61
Flintoff-4 & 30*
Broad-16 & DNB
Swann-4 & DNB
Anderson-29 & DNB
Onions-17* & DNB

Bowling

Anderson-4/55 & 0/86
Flintoff-1/27 & 5/92
Broad-2/78 & 1/49
Onions-3/41 & 0/50
Swann-0/4 & 4/87
Collingwood-DNB & 0/29

[drebin]

In case anyone is interested in Strauss's comments on that catch ... http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 72,00.html

Jeff Crowes quote was a "we must defend the honour of the umpires at all costs" pathetic deflection of a real problem in this test match. I don't think Strauss cheated and probably did believe he caught it at the time but how Crowe can defend Doctrove who said he saw it clearly from square leg so no referral yet neither umpire saw the Haurtiz catch???

The umpiring in this test was as bad as I have seen and for the match referree to make stupid statements in trying to defend them is more of a joke. Now if this was a test match umpired by an Australian umpire involving any country from the sub-continent (in fact any country) then the umpires would be driven out like Darrell Hair with all the bleating that would have occurred!

[Media Park]

Next game is extremely important.

I'd replace Siddle with Clark and Johnson with Lee (if he's fit). We have yet to take 20 wickets this series and changes are needed.

The one Aussie bowler I'd guarantee a place for is Siddle...

Based on the match, if you're going to get rid of Siddle, then MJ, Hughhefnerhaus and Hauritz need the door as well.

Siddle was our best bowler...

[hearts on fire]

SIddle was our best bowler that Test, i don't think we would be getting rid of him in a hurry.

[MAY-Z]

Ur not that good flintoff

Comment of the thread.

He's not though. His record proves he is a reasonable bowler but not that good and an average batsman. One or two good performances doesn't mean he is anything other than that. Sure he was fantastic today but the guy averages over 30 with the ball (seriously that is just a good average record) and just over 30 with the bat. Yes he has stood up a couple of times but if he was truly a great player he would have done more than he has in his career.

He was fantastic in this match though so don't get me wrong. I take nothing away from his performance at Lords.

can you explain something to me rr

here you are saying flintoff is not that good and is only a reasonable bowler, yet a couple of posts later you are saying how good mitchell johnson is, who would have a similar record yet struggles to get the ball on the pitch. also a heap of mitchell johnsons runs with the bat have come when the game is all over.

[mal]

MJ


The MJ knockers are in force
For those knockers which players won the Test Series for AU V SA in the Proteas ?
I reckon it was
SCARDY CAT
MJ

Short memories are in abundance
He is a very good bowler and will come good

Perhaps if the critics thought about why he bowled shithouse at Lords
How About
He has not come to GRIPS with the Pommie cricket balls
Theres a distinct slope at Lords
Being a somewhat erratical wayward bowler at times by definition it must have been difficult for MJ to get in the groovy

MJ is as fine a cricketing talent and performer in a handful of series as you could find
My worry is the burn out factor
Keep playing 4 bowlers and MJ/SIZZLE/HILF are gunna or could be spent forces b4 thier time ???

Also I find it a bit disconcerting the amount of criticism on this thread on proven good Test cricket performers
The HADDIN and MJ knockers can rightfully say that Hads keeping and MJs bowling was below standard in this test match
BUT
Should also post how well they batted perhaps ?

And to the Freddy knockers
Eat your words, he performed magnificently vrs AU again in a test series in his native land

[silicone skyline]

Freddy can go and **** himself Mal.

[Jase]

I really don't understand all the animosity towards Freddie...sure the somewhat arrogant pose after taking a wicket is a bit cringeworthy at times, but no more so than the ballerina efforts and "chainsaw" routine of Brett Lee...

Freddie is always the first to shake hands with the Aussies after a match take for example the initial reactions of the English after the win last night, the first thing Freddie did after picking up a stump was shake hands with Johnson and Hilf. While the rest were patting each other on the back...

He is a fierce competitor who seems like a genuine bloke, see the Brett Lee commiserations in the 2005 series...

Also I will declare that I am an England fan so I have my asbestos undies on, in preparation of a flaming...

Jase