Australia v India 2nd Test - Sydney - commencing 3/1/12

[rod_rooster]

People on here are very rough on Haddin. Every mistake he makes you want him out.
His record stands up there with every keeper in the world at the moment.
That ball was flying but he should have taken it. But everyone drops a catch in their career

He cops most of the stick for his batting.
His glovework has always been average.
At the moment id doubt if he was the 4th best glovesman in the country.
Wicket keepers tend to get selected these days according to their batting

This is my biggest issue. He cannot keep. You have to be a very special player to be average with the gloves but hold your place as a bat. Haddin is a very good bat for a wicket keeper but he's a terrible wicket keeper. Should not be in the side. We'd be better off selecting the next best batsman and getting them to keep. Would be better with the bat and no worse with the gloves. Haddin should still get a game ahead of Shaun Marsh though.

[Ewok]

I reckon Tom Triffit from Tassie is worth watching in the near future. He definitely can keep and can bat. IMO this kid has the goods. Could be a similar situation to the late 80's when Qld keeper Peter Anderson was close to a test gig but broke a finger, Healy came in and the rest is history. Maybe that Paine's injury ( coincidentally a finger injury like Andersons) could open the door for this lad to attain higher honours.

[Ewok]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Agree with Hartley, very good keeper. I've rated him for a long time.Age may be his biggest enemy, plus he's just a scrapper as a bat, very effective but not an eye catching type. We could do much worse though

[Jim05]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Peter Nevill is the best glovesman ive seen this season.
Not convinced Wade's glovework is any better than Haddin's
Triffett is also one to watch for the future

[Squids]

[whufc]

I think at times people underestimate the value of the partnerships the number 7 can build especially if they can bat a bit. A keeper who can spend time at the crease can be a huge bonus especially if they can build partnerships with the higher order batsmen and then bat agressively with the tail.

The drop catches are critical for a keeper but realisitcally how many times do keepers drop catches and not ones like the Tendulkar off Lyon.

Haddin an average keeper would be dropping 1 catch every what 2-3 tests.

[am Bays]

Healy averaged exactly 20 runs less an innings than Adam Gilchrist and was a million times better keeper BUT how many on here would select Healy in their side ahead of Adam Gilchrist.

me, in a heartbeat.

[Media Park]

Whenever you select a BEST XI, you have such a stacked top six that you can afford to play a wicket keeper who is just that- the best wicket keeper, regardless of their batting abilities.
Healy was a better keeper than Gilchrist.

Unless you want to select the BEST BATTING XI, and forgo the skill level of your keeper and bowlers, Healy would win every time.

[whufc]

Interesting stats here regarding fielding in the Ashes series last year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/datablo ... -opta#data

in the five tests Haddin had only 8 catches yet still dropped 2 and had what they classed as 6 misfields out of the 1252 times he fielded the ball.

on the other scale Paul Collingwood dropped 3 out of his 12 catching oppurtunities. Would his spot have come under risk for a batsmen who would average 20 less than him an innings but have taken all those catching oppurtunities.

Some real interesting stats produced in that link from the Ashes series.

Phil Hughes edges 8% of all deliveries he faced thought it would have been higher LOL

[rod_rooster]

We need to stop selecting keepers with the best batting ability and pick the ones with the best glove work. A specialist keepers number 1 job is to keep wickets, if he makes a few runs its a bonus. Would much prefer a keeper who averages 20 with the bat but is a great glovesman over a keeper who averages 40 but is average behind the stumps.
Haddin has always been in the average category and im not sure Wade is great with the gloves either. No doubt Wade is a good batsman but we need to find the best keeper.
Manou copped a bit of stick because he wasnt a great batsman but his glove work was the best in the country.
From what ive seen this season Nevill from NSW seems to have the best glovework IMO

I tend to agree but unfortunatly if you can find a keeper who can average around that 40 mark its a huge advantage especially if in that 40 runs they make they have a couple of partnerships worth a total of an extra 100 runs.

Would love to know the stats on average how many catches do keepers drop in an innings and how many byes that they should have saved (not 10ft bouncers that go over every one) in an innings.

PERFECT EXAMPLE TO A TEE

Adam Gilchrist averaged 47
Ian Healy average 27

Healy averaged exactly 20 runs less an innings than Adam Gilchrist and was a million times better keeper BUT how many on here would select Healy in their side ahead of Adam Gilchrist.

Gilchrist is an exception rather than the rule though. How many would select Haddin over Healy?

[whufc]

Whenever you select a BEST XI, you have such a stacked top six that you can afford to play a wicket keeper who is just that- the best wicket keeper, regardless of their batting abilities.
Healy was a better keeper than Gilchrist.

Unless you want to select the BEST BATTING XI, and forgo the skill level of your keeper and bowlers, Healy would win every time.

better way to put it. Haddin is injured and cant play in the next test both Healy and Gilchrist are in their prime who do you select.

For me with the currently batting line-up and issues they have had except first innings in Sydney i would go with Gilchrist and the batting depth that he would add.

[Jim05]

Whenever you select a BEST XI, you have such a stacked top six that you can afford to play a wicket keeper who is just that- the best wicket keeper, regardless of their batting abilities.
Healy was a better keeper than Gilchrist.

Unless you want to select the BEST BATTING XI, and forgo the skill level of your keeper and bowlers, Healy would win every time.

better way to put it. Haddin is injured and cant play in the next test both Healy and Gilchrist are in their prime who do you select.

For me with the currently batting line-up and issues they have had except first innings in Sydney i would go with Gilchrist and the batting depth that he would add.

If you are relying on your keeper to make runs you have bigger issues. It means the batters are not doing their job. Keepers runs are an added bonus.
What next? Do we start picking bowlers on their batting ability because the top order keep underperforming.

[whufc]

We need to stop selecting keepers with the best batting ability and pick the ones with the best glove work. A specialist keepers number 1 job is to keep wickets, if he makes a few runs its a bonus. Would much prefer a keeper who averages 20 with the bat but is a great glovesman over a keeper who averages 40 but is average behind the stumps.
Haddin has always been in the average category and im not sure Wade is great with the gloves either. No doubt Wade is a good batsman but we need to find the best keeper.
Manou copped a bit of stick because he wasnt a great batsman but his glove work was the best in the country.
From what ive seen this season Nevill from NSW seems to have the best glovework IMO

I tend to agree but unfortunatly if you can find a keeper who can average around that 40 mark its a huge advantage especially if in that 40 runs they make they have a couple of partnerships worth a total of an extra 100 runs.

Would love to know the stats on average how many catches do keepers drop in an innings and how many byes that they should have saved (not 10ft bouncers that go over every one) in an innings.

PERFECT EXAMPLE TO A TEE

Adam Gilchrist averaged 47
Ian Healy average 27

Healy averaged exactly 20 runs less an innings than Adam Gilchrist and was a million times better keeper BUT how many on here would select Healy in their side ahead of Adam Gilchrist.

Gilchrist is an exception rather than the rule though. How many would select Haddin over Healy?

Im more asking the question what does the better batsmen have to do to override the better keeper, more in a stat sense.

Gilly average 20 more an innnings than Healy a very high % would pick Healy first.

On the other hand Haddin only averaged 8 runs an innings more than Healy and nearly everyone would pick Healy first.

I think for me the mark is around the 15 runs difference, eg, Haddin in his first class career has averaged 14 more runs an innings than Manou and has hit 30 more scores of 50 or over in 50 more innings than Manou. I personally as the selectors did would go with Haddin over Manou JUST! borderline decision.

[Rik E Boy]

Underrated post!

regards,

REB

[Rik E Boy]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Hasn't Hartley hung up his gloves? The Bulls have had a bloke called Dunk keeping for them but since there hasn't been a shield match since September I'm not so sure.

regards,

REB

[Media Park]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Hasn't Hartley hung up his gloves? The Bulls have had a bloke called Dunk keeping for them but since there hasn't been a shield match since September I'm not so sure.

regards,

REB

Dunk keeps in the teeball stuff, but I'm surprised that you would have picked up on that, given your thoughts on the format...

Hartley is still their number one keeper, was the shield player of the year a couple of seasons ago, now batting at number 9...

[Media Park]

EDIT: Dunk keeps for Brisbane Heat...

[Rik E Boy]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Hasn't Hartley hung up his gloves? The Bulls have had a bloke called Dunk keeping for them but since there hasn't been a shield match since September I'm not so sure.

regards,

REB

Dunk keeps in the teeball stuff, but I'm surprised that you would have picked up on that, given your thoughts on the format...

Hartley is still their number one keeper, was the shield player of the year a couple of seasons ago, now batting at number 9...

I saw him in a Ryobi-Franger-McDonalds-Gillette Cup match. Besides the last time I didn't check there were no Bulls in teeball, only Bullshit.

regards,

REB

[rod_rooster]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Hartley is my pick as well. Would have had him in the side two years ago. I know Wade and Paine are the ones talked up but Hartley has them covered IMHO.

[Media Park]

Australia's keepers- Not batsmen, but pure wicket keepers, in order of their keeping skill:

Hartley
Paine (injured)
Wade
Crosthwaite
Haddin
Ronchi

Hartley is my pick as well. Would have had him in the side two years ago. I know Wade and Paine are the ones talked up but Hartley has them covered IMHO.

When Manou got the gig, I would have given it to Hartley.