Third Aus vs Pak 14th-18th Jan in Hobart

[Hondo]

It's a fair point mal but Dizzy got dropped after his double hundred.

His job was bowling and I think we all agreed at the time that Dizzy's time was up.

If he gets a 200 v Bangladesh that's a nice bonus and an interesting stat but it wasn't what he was in the side for.

Or are you stirring Mal up?

[Lightning McQueen]

It's a fair point mal but Dizzy got dropped after his double hundred.

His job was bowling and I think we all agreed at the time that Dizzy's time was up.

If he gets a 200 v Bangladesh that's a nice bonus and an interesting stat but it wasn't what he was in the side for.

Or are you stirring Mal up?

Not stirring, mal's comment in regards to Siddle's 38 seemed as though that might have saved his spot.

[Hondo]

Oh OK

[jackpot jim]

Did they perservere with -
Hughes ? PLAYED TEST BEFORE LAST, NEXT IN LINE, NOT DISCARDED
Krezja ? NOT QUITE READY BUT NOT DISCARDED
White ? COME ON
Cullen ? COME ON
MaGain ? COME ON x 10
MacDonald ? REPLACED BY WATTO
Casson ? COME ON
Rogers ? POSSIBLY
Love ? COME ON ... ABOUT 8th IN LINE ONLY PLAYED CAUSE OF INJURIES
Hodge ? STARTED TOO LATE BUT POSSIBLY

NO they didn't....................................... Many of who did Nothing wrong.

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing JJ - my responses in caps above

In my mind it's guys like Bollinger, Siddle, Hilf, Watto, Katich, Hussey, Clarke, Haddin in recent times that I thought of when I read Mal's post. Guys that have had some challenges but been persisted with. You've come up with a list of back-ups and guys given an opportunity but shown not to be quite there. To me, that list confirms what Mal was saying. Are you saying Dan Cullen should have been persisted with at test level?

We persist with the guys that should be persisted with most times.

without knowing their stats at Shield level, at a guess i would say Krezja would have the best record as an offie, played 2 tests, took a bagful of wickets against the No. 1 ranked country India in India then played in Perth against the No. 2 ranked Sth Africans who targeted him on a helpless spinners track and then BANISHED.
Think Hauritz was promoted to test level (was stuggling to get a game at the time for his state) more for his containment than wicket taking ability. Gets to play against the 7th & 8th ranked teams in Pakistan & the W.Indies and does well although was gifted a lot of wickets through ordinary batting.
Given the same chance , i'd back CULLEN & Krezja to as good if not better than Hauritz did but they WERNT perservered with. Hauritz got his chance and things have gone his way, good luck to him but cant see him being a long term solution.
Having said that, i DO agree with Mal that SIDDLE was worth perservering with and it reaped rewards.

Was just responding to Mals quote about Australia perservering with players which ISN'T always the case.

[MAY-Z]

Did they perservere with -
Hughes ? PLAYED TEST BEFORE LAST, NEXT IN LINE, NOT DISCARDED
Krezja ? NOT QUITE READY BUT NOT DISCARDED
White ? COME ON
Cullen ? COME ON
MaGain ? COME ON x 10
MacDonald ? REPLACED BY WATTO
Casson ? COME ON
Rogers ? POSSIBLY
Love ? COME ON ... ABOUT 8th IN LINE ONLY PLAYED CAUSE OF INJURIES
Hodge ? STARTED TOO LATE BUT POSSIBLY

NO they didn't....................................... Many of who did Nothing wrong.

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing JJ - my responses in caps above

In my mind it's guys like Bollinger, Siddle, Hilf, Watto, Katich, Hussey, Clarke, Haddin in recent times that I thought of when I read Mal's post. Guys that have had some challenges but been persisted with. You've come up with a list of back-ups and guys given an opportunity but shown not to be quite there. To me, that list confirms what Mal was saying. Are you saying Dan Cullen should have been persisted with at test level?

We persist with the guys that should be persisted with most times.

without knowing their stats at Shield level, at a guess i would say Krezja would have the best record as an offie, played 2 tests, took a bagful of wickets against the No. 1 ranked country India in India then played in Perth against the No. 2 ranked Sth Africans who targeted him on a helpless spinners track and then BANISHED.
Think Hauritz was promoted to test level (was stuggling to get a game at the time for his state) more for his containment than wicket taking ability. Gets to play against the 7th & 8th ranked teams in Pakistan & the W.Indies and does well although was gifted a lot of wickets through ordinary batting.
Given the same chance , i'd back CULLEN & Krezja to as good if not better than Hauritz did but they WERNT perservered with. Hauritz got his chance and things have gone his way, good luck to him but cant see him being a long term solution.
Having said that, i DO agree with Mal that SIDDLE was worth perservering with and it reaped rewards.

Was just responding to Mals quote about Australia perservering with players which ISN'T always the case.

agree entirely jjsome players get more than a fair go and others dont

[Rik E Boy]

without knowing their stats at Shield level, at a guess i would say Krezja would have the best record as an offie, played 2 tests, took a bagful of wickets against the No. 1 ranked country India in India then played in Perth against the No. 2 ranked Sth Africans who targeted him on a helpless spinners track and then BANISHED.
Think Hauritz was promoted to test level (was stuggling to get a game at the time for his state) more for his containment than wicket taking ability. Gets to play against the 7th & 8th ranked teams in Pakistan & the W.Indies and does well although was gifted a lot of wickets through ordinary batting.
Given the same chance , i'd back CULLEN & Krezja to as good if not better than Hauritz did but they WERNT perservered with. Hauritz got his chance and things have gone his way, good luck to him but cant see him being a long term solution.

What a joke. You can't complain about the pitch when you aren't hitting it. And since when could South Africans play spin? Haurie is improving at test level all the time but for some reason fails to get any respect. I hope that the opposition keep disrespecting him because it means more wickets for the Australian team. But jeez, it would be nice of some of the 'fans' to actually back blokes once they've been given the baggy green. Novel idea I know.

regards,

REB

[Gingernuts]

Must admit I'm a Haurie convert. Didn't think he was much chop before this summer (not that there's many alternatives around!), but he's won me over with his recent performances. Deserves his spot now IMO.

[MAY-Z]

without knowing their stats at Shield level, at a guess i would say Krezja would have the best record as an offie, played 2 tests, took a bagful of wickets against the No. 1 ranked country India in India then played in Perth against the No. 2 ranked Sth Africans who targeted him on a helpless spinners track and then BANISHED.
Think Hauritz was promoted to test level (was stuggling to get a game at the time for his state) more for his containment than wicket taking ability. Gets to play against the 7th & 8th ranked teams in Pakistan & the W.Indies and does well although was gifted a lot of wickets through ordinary batting.
Given the same chance , i'd back CULLEN & Krezja to as good if not better than Hauritz did but they WERNT perservered with. Hauritz got his chance and things have gone his way, good luck to him but cant see him being a long term solution.

What a joke. You can't complain about the pitch when you aren't hitting it. And since when could South Africans play spin? Haurie is improving at test level all the time but for some reason fails to get any respect. I hope that the opposition keep disrespecting him because it means more wickets for the Australian team. But jeez, it would be nice of some of the 'fans' to actually back blokes once they've been given the baggy green. Novel idea I know.

regards,

REB

if krezja, mcgain or casson had been given this many tests they too might be improving at test level

[Hondo]

So, basically when we get down to it this is all about Nathan Hauritz.

[Hondo]

if krezja, mcgain or casson had been given this many tests they too might be improving at test level

Is Casson even getting a game for NSW? Krezja and McGain have around 13 wickets @ 45ish so aren't knocking the door down for selection which is the exact complaint made against Hauritz before he was selected for Australia.

Smith from NSW now seems ahead of all of those 3 from the selectors' POV. Maybe, just maybe the selectors are closer to the action than you or JJ and have made the right call for now?

[MAY-Z]

if krezja, mcgain or casson had been given this many tests they too might be improving at test level

Is Casson even getting a game for NSW? Krezja and McGain have around 13 wickets @ 45ish so aren't knocking the door down.

Smith from NSW now seems ahead of all of those 3 from the selectors' POV. Maybe, just maybe the selectors are closer to the action than you or JJ and have made the right call for now?

what was haurrie doing before he got picked? going backwards at state level, same with cam white when he was picked as the spinner - im not saying tehy deserve a spot on their current from but their prior form was good enough to get picked and perform ok when they were picked (apart from mcgain)

[jackpot jim]

So, basically when we get down to it this is all about Nathan Hauritz.

NO. I was responding to Mals quote.

It's about players who have been PERSERVERED with and NOT perservered with. Hauritz is one along with Siddle and North that are being perservered with and i mentioned a few who HAVENT beed perserverd with that may well have come good if given the same chance.

[Hondo]

JJ, if you had left the list at Brad Hodge and Chris Rogers I wouldn't be arguing with you about it. I think Mike Hussey's extended free card to the team denied those guys some games.

But to me that's about it. The others on your list feel like you are making a list of 1-2 test players just for the sake of making a list. You can't perservere with everybody who gets trialled at test level. Those closer to action can spot things that us punters can't and so have more information than us to make these decisions and this summer Haurie seems to have vindicated them. Who knows what the future holds?

[jackpot jim]

if krezja, mcgain or casson had been given this many tests they too might be improving at test level

Is Casson even getting a game for NSW? Krezja and McGain have around 13 wickets @ 45ish so aren't knocking the door down for selection which is the exact complaint made against Hauritz before he was selected for Australia.

Smith from NSW now seems ahead of all of those 3 from the selectors' POV. Maybe, just maybe the selectors are closer to the action than you or JJ and have made the right call for now?

Steven Smith 11 1st class wickets @ 75.18 B/B 3/135

Apart from playing for NSW, how else could he have been considered for a replacement for Hauritz a few weeks back ?

[Hondo]

im not saying tehy deserve a spot on their current from but their prior form was good enough to get picked and perform ok when they were picked (apart from mcgain)

So why are we even talking about McGain? Or even Casson?

This is my point. All these names get dropped for the sake of an argument yet there's no basis for them to be picked. So why mention them?

[Hondo]

Steven Smith 11 1st class wickets @ 75.18 B/B 3/135

Apart from playing for NSW, how else could he have been considered for a replacement for Hauritz a few weeks back ?

It's one big NSW conspiracy

[MAY-Z]

im not saying tehy deserve a spot on their current from but their prior form was good enough to get picked and perform ok when they were picked (apart from mcgain)

So why are we even talking about McGain? Or even Casson?

This is my point. All these names get dropped for the sake of an argument yet there's no basis for them to be picked. So why mention them?

because they didnt get persevered with which was what started this conversation

casson performed well on debut and then discarded, krezja sensational on debut

[Hondo]

because they didnt get persevered with which was what started this conversation

casson performed well on debut and then discarded, krezja sensational on debut

Did Krezja sort of take Casson's spot? So we wouldn't even be talking about Krezja's debut game if they had perservered with Casson? Good thing Casson was discarded or we wouldn't have anything to argue about re Krezja

Anyway, Krezja will be back. He's only 27. Right now Haurie is doing the job and good luck to him I reckon.

[CoverKing]

From what i have read guys, MAL was getting to the point that the Aussie selectors have perservered with guys that have been there, then gone into a form slump and given an extended time to get out of it.

Cullen, Krejza, Rogers and so on were not there for an extended time 5 tests or more. They are unable to be perservered with when out of form because they were not there long enough. Guys like Clarke, Hussey, North, Siddle and even Mitch because they had runs on the board. North a bit of an exception but he had not too many people knocking on the door and had showed a bit in his first 6-7 tests.

Also, JJ when Krejza got the wickets against the Indians they were not even ranked number 2. I think you will find they were ranked 3rd in the world and he got the wickets on one of the most spin friendly wickets of all time, yet still got hit for 200+ in the innings.

[mal]

The reason why Nathan Hauritz is a better Test bowler than a SS bowler
The curators in SS cricket these days have forgotten to produce pitches that assist spinners as a rule
SS games go 4 days, so the pitches in theory are less likely to break up and spin
So guys like Hathan struggle at SS level , and struggle to command a consistent spot in thier state teams !

Test cricket has given Nathan something
Constant playing
He has become settled and with regularity has began to bowl better
added to this 2 other factors have assisted greatly this summer
AU keep batting first
Nathan bowls last innings
And 2 left hand fast bowlers are scuffing up the pitch for the off spinner
The same happens for Harby for India with the left hand quicks

Yeah he has had some advantages but he has nailed his luck
He is on par performance wise with some of the best off spinners to play for AU in the last 50 years