Australian Cricket

[Hondo]

Then it's up to the selectors to tap them on the shoulder and tell them when their career is over.

That's the problem as I see it. They won't do it for the benefit of the Australian side. State selectors have different goals than the National selectors.

Cricket selectors at state level want to pick sides to win the various state competitions so will pick the 36 year olds for as long as they are more likely to perform better than the 20 year old in the next few games. They don't seem to be picking teams to help build the 2016 Australian side. State cricket has become too lucrative maybe. Maybe we are drifting into the problems that plagued English cricket for a long time. The professional first class cricketer who will never play for Australia but plays until he is 40 and holds up the next generation of players.

I wonder if there needs to be some other pathway competition for the young players? Or are there in fact enough young players in the Shield?

[smithy]

Hondo, At shield level, if they're good enough they'll get in.
Not so sure that is the same at test level though.
Selectors will quite often take the "safe" option of picking a seasoned cricketer rather than a young gun.
What is happening now should've started 18 months ago.
Instead of picking North - pick Khawaja or Marsh

This test is a great example...... why pick Bollinger whose series figures are 1 for lots IIRC .
Why not pick Copeland ????? young and leading the shield wickets.

Is a selectors thinking generally a reflection of how they themselves were as cricketers ?????? I think so.
Hilditch was a conservative bore to watch unless you bowled him a bouncer.
Are his selections "conservative" ? I reckon so.

These selectors played in a different era of test cricket.
get a few of them in there that played test cricket for australia that changed the way other nations approached the game...............attacking.

[mal]

Smithy
You have canned Dougggggie on 1 test match on the King William Road
B4 that Douggie was one of the most lethal destructive new ball bowlers in the world
The Australian attack has sorely missed him
He was going have about 2/10 in Adelaide b4 Butterfingers Hussey dropped Trott in the gully

[New Era]

Just bit of a discussion about Australias long term teams.

We have a crop of U/19's coming through that may well infact be the core of the next sucessful period of Australian Cricket. Its very likely that it will be a Mitch Marsh led teams that wins again in England. It may well be 5+ years before we have the ashes back.

Also not just in regards to those boys, Maddison, Paine, Kwhaja, Copeland, Stac and O'Keefe are very likely to win back the urn from the old enemy. So I'm posing the questions to all out there. How do we start getting these guys ready for test cricket. Is it as simple as keeping them away from 20/20? I would be interesting to read other peoples thoughts about this.

The Australian Cricket team is not a club cricket team where you might plan for the future. The best players must be picked every game. If the young blokes you mention are better than the current incumbents then so be it but the ACA cannot give away baggy greens on a whim and based on a comp they want to win in 2 years. The relative grade comp and to lesser degree the shield teams breed players for higher honours not the Australian cricket team.

If you're not good enough to break into the team then bad luck, that's what makes playing for the Australian Cricket Team what it is - special.

[smithy]

Smithy
You have canned Dougggggie on 1 test match on the King William Road
B4 that Douggie was one of the most lethal destructive new ball bowlers in the world
The Australian attack has sorely missed him
He was going have about 2/10 in Adelaide b4 Butterfingers Hussey dropped Trott in the gully

MAL - I was suggesting that it might be better to select a 24year old fast bowler on his home deck who is leading the shield in wickets this season rather than select a 30 year old.

This was my point regarding selecting older cricketers rather than emerging ones.

[smithy]

Smithy
You have canned Dougggggie on 1 test match on the King William Road
B4 that Douggie was one of the most lethal destructive new ball bowlers in the world

PLease MAL - Humour isn't a strong point of yours.

Gone a bit quiet on Mitch baby since the WACA as well I notice.

[smithy]

Just bit of a discussion about Australias long term teams.

We have a crop of U/19's coming through that may well infact be the core of the next sucessful period of Australian Cricket. Its very likely that it will be a Mitch Marsh led teams that wins again in England. It may well be 5+ years before we have the ashes back.

Also not just in regards to those boys, Maddison, Paine, Kwhaja, Copeland, Stac and O'Keefe are very likely to win back the urn from the old enemy. So I'm posing the questions to all out there. How do we start getting these guys ready for test cricket. Is it as simple as keeping them away from 20/20? I would be interesting to read other peoples thoughts about this.

The Australian Cricket team is not a club cricket team where you might plan for the future. The best players must be picked every game. If the young blokes you mention are better than the current incumbents then so be it but the ACA cannot give away baggy greens on a whim and based on a comp they want to win in 2 years. The relative grade comp and to lesser degree the shield teams breed players for higher honours not the Australian cricket team.

If you're not good enough to break into the team then bad luck, that's what makes playing for the Australian Cricket Team what it is - special.

I'd be quite confident in saying that Khawaja is a better batsman than North or Smith.
Copeland is a better bowler than Hilf and Starc is a better bowler (injured) than Johnson.
O'Keefe is a better cricketer than Beer, Hauritz and erty.

[mal]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

DK LILLIE
355 WKTS
8493 RUNS
23-92 AVE
5201 S/RATE

MCGRATH
563 WKTS
12186 RUNS
21-64 AVE
51-95 S/RATE

Smithy Im sure you will agree that Glen and Dennis are prob 2 of the greatest fast bowlers AU has ever produced
Douggggggggggies career is pretty good in comparism
Douggggie has a better strike rate of getting wickets than the 2 champs, albiet for only 50 wickets
Im sure looking at that record that Dougggggie is a lethal destructive new ball bowler
And if you take off Dougggies Adelaide road figures, his record b4 that was even better

[bayman]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

DK LILLIE
355 WKTS
8493 RUNS
23-92 AVE
5201 S/RATE

MCGRATH
563 WKTS
12186 RUNS
21-64 AVE
51-95 S/RATE

Smithy Im sure you will agree that Glen and Dennis are prob 2 of the greatest fast bowlers AU has ever produced
Douggggggggggies career is pretty good in comparism
Douggggie has a better strike rate of getting wickets than the 2 champs, albiet for only 50 wickets
Im sure looking at that record that Dougggggie is a lethal destructive new ball bowler

i think if you added wsc to lillie's record it would even be better

[mal]

I will get in b4 the smartanals do
Lillies s/r was 52-01 not 5201 as I posted

[smithy]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

DK LILLIE
355 WKTS
8493 RUNS
23-92 AVE
5201 S/RATE

MCGRATH
563 WKTS
12186 RUNS
21-64 AVE
51-95 S/RATE

Smithy Im sure you will agree that Glen and Dennis are prob 2 of the greatest fast bowlers AU has ever produced
Douggggggggggies career is pretty good in comparism
Douggggie has a better strike rate of getting wickets than the 2 champs, albiet for only 50 wickets
Im sure looking at that record that Dougggggie is a lethal destructive new ball bowler
And if you take off Dougggies Adelaide road figures, his record b4 that was even better

MAL - I'm sure if Douggie had played the same amount of test as those 2 his strike rate would've increased.
PLus, of those 50 wickets he has, 8 are against England, South Africa and India.
The other 42 are against test giants New Zealand, West Indies and Pakistan.

Back to my original point, I was comparing his selection to Copeland.
Why not play the 24 year old ?

[mal]

Smithy
You play Dougggggie b4 Copeland
Just becoz Douggggie is 30+ years old, he must be picked
There is no way COOOK and TROTT would have made so many runs this series if Dougggggie was fit and firing

If you have a 30+ year old performing moderately like NORTH, you then select a younger player
PONTING is 36 and averaging about 38 the last 2 years, you could select a younger player
HUSSEY IS mid thirties but after his current series how can he be dropped for a younger player

So you dont clean sweep all the oldies at once and have a bunch of cricketers who have only gone to the Election polls about once in thier lifetimes
You replace the old underperforming players with the newbies

[mal]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

DK LILLIE
355 WKTS
8493 RUNS
23-92 AVE
5201 S/RATE

MCGRATH
563 WKTS
12186 RUNS
21-64 AVE
51-95 S/RATE

Smithy Im sure you will agree that Glen and Dennis are prob 2 of the greatest fast bowlers AU has ever produced
Douggggggggggies career is pretty good in comparism
Douggggie has a better strike rate of getting wickets than the 2 champs, albiet for only 50 wickets
Im sure looking at that record that Dougggggie is a lethal destructive new ball bowler
And if you take off Dougggies Adelaide road figures, his record b4 that was even better

MAL - I'm sure if Douggie had played the same amount of test as those 2 his strike rate would've increased.
PLus, of those 50 wickets he has, 8 are against England, South Africa and India.
The other 42 are against test giants New Zealand, West Indies and Pakistan.

Back to my original point, I was comparing his selection to Copeland.
Why not play the 24 year old ?

Who is to say he could not reproduce those figures against EG/SA/IN
On what he has done against NZ/WI/PA, he deserves a crack at the other teams

[smithy]

Smithy
You play Dougggggie b4 Copeland
Just becoz Douggggie is 30+ years old, he must be picked
There is no way COOOK and TROTT would have made so many runs this series if Dougggggie was fit and firing

If you have a 30+ year old performing moderately like NORTH, you then select a younger player

So North can be replaced with a younger player but not Dougggggggie ????
Doesn't make sense.

You are still missing my original point of ppicking youngsters whilst trying to find the future of Australian cricket.
If you so badly want to keep dougggggggie, put copeland in instead of Hilf ?

[smithy]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

DK LILLIE
355 WKTS
8493 RUNS
23-92 AVE
5201 S/RATE

MCGRATH
563 WKTS
12186 RUNS
21-64 AVE
51-95 S/RATE

Smithy Im sure you will agree that Glen and Dennis are prob 2 of the greatest fast bowlers AU has ever produced
Douggggggggggies career is pretty good in comparism
Douggggie has a better strike rate of getting wickets than the 2 champs, albiet for only 50 wickets
Im sure looking at that record that Dougggggie is a lethal destructive new ball bowler
And if you take off Dougggies Adelaide road figures, his record b4 that was even better

MAL - I'm sure if Douggie had played the same amount of test as those 2 his strike rate would've increased.
PLus, of those 50 wickets he has, 8 are against England, South Africa and India.
The other 42 are against test giants New Zealand, West Indies and Pakistan.

Back to my original point, I was comparing his selection to Copeland.
Why not play the 24 year old ?

Who is to say he could not reproduce those figures against EG/SA/IN
On what he has done against NZ/WI/PA, he deserves a crack at the other teams

Who is to say he would ?
Stats don't lie MAL and the facts are he has taken 42 of his 50 wickets against poor opposition.
Hardly most lethal opening bowler in the world stats.

[smithy]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

IIRC - Brett Lee's first 50 wickets came at 16 with a strike rate of 42.

You'd hardly end up comparing him to Lillee and McGrath.

[mal]

DOUGGGGGGIE
50 WKTS
1296 RUNS
25-92 AVE
48-02 S/RATE

IIRC - Brett Lee's first 50 wickets came at 16 with a strike rate of 42.

You'd hardly end up comparing him to Lillee and McGrath.

NOt at the end of LEEs career
But for his first 50 wickets he was as good or better as Lillie/Mcgrath/Spofforth/Jones/Bollinger

[mal]

Douggggggggggggggggggggggggggies career against the big 3

1ST TEST GAME V SOUTH AFRICA
0/78[23]
2/53[21]
this was his debut Test
should we expect anymore against a powerful SA batting line up on debut
RATING 3


11TH TEST V INDIA
2/49[16]
3/32[8]
This was his 2nd last Test match
In a country where its norMALly a fast bowling graveyard, thats good bowling figures
He was also in Africa about 3-4 days b4 this Test
RATING 9

LAST TEST V ENGLAND
1/139 [29]
Underdone, back from injury and bowling at the Adelaide oVal which is mainly a first innings graveyard for bowlers
RATING 2

He has bowled in 5 innings against the big3
3 of those innings were good bowling efforts


Back to the original point
A fit Doougggggggggggie should be picked b4 Copeland
He must be given a chance to expand on his excellent 50 wicket career
Copeland for Hilf, I can be in some sort of agreeance with that

Smithy Im off to bed
We can do THE NATHs career on our next night together !

[rod_rooster]

Before writing blokes off based on age people should probably check their stats. For what it's worth:

Hilfenhaus - 27
Bollinger - 29
Johnson - 29
Siddle - 26
Harris - 31

Apart from Harris, none of the quicks we've used this series are 30 or older. I'm not commenting on the merits of any of these guys but it's probably worth basing calls for any of them to be axed on something apart from their age.

[Jim05]

Bollinger is a good selection but copeland had to play. Get rid of hilfy the most useless overated bowler ive seen for a while. He is absolute rubbish, why do we persist with this pedestrian obe trick pony