The best Test side to have played the game.

[GWW]

That would be the same Bob Simpson who put himself in Australia's best sider ever

[Rik E Boy]

That would be the same Bob Simpson who put himself in Australia's best sider ever

Most of those are the best side of blokes they had played with of course so naturally he would have to include himself. For mine Simpson would have to go very close to the openers spot mind you.

regards,

REB

[GWW]

That would be the same Bob Simpson who put himself in Australia's best sider ever

Most of those are the best side of blokes they had played with of course so naturally he would have to include himself. For mine Simpson would have to go very close to the openers spot mind you.

regards,

REB

Its generally always ettiquette for people not to include themself in those types of sides though. Getting off topic i know but wanted to sledge Simmo

[mal]

FIRST TEST GABBA 1977 V INDIA

HIBBERT
COSIER
OGILVIE
SERJEANT
SIMPSON
TOOHEY
MANN
RIXON
CLARK
THOMSON
HURST

Whatta team

The best REBS WI team as posted
I trembled just seeing the fast bowlers in that line up

[GWW]

I know there were better players around back in the 80's,but also were not as technical as they are now.Also their schedules were not as hectic but they also did not train as much then as they do now.Arguments both ways......Just watching hilights though I know it was calypso cricket but surely this current side was "Smarter" (probably due to technoligy) than the windies and no footwork against the current Australians means trouble.

I have this conversation regularly. I watched Botham on Fox at the MCG circa early 80's SMASH a ball to the boundary and he almost made it over the fence. I watch McDonald the next day (for Victoria) SMASH a ball OVER the boundary for six. Who's the bigger hitter? Who's the stronger? Who's the better timer? No one will ever know. I truly believe bat technology means that guys who couldn't normally clear the rope, could clear the rope.

That would mean playing against the Windies with the same bat technology would equate to a massive advantage.........scary. However, "drop in" pitches, increased training techniques and bowling analysis would all eat into that advantage of bat technology (possibly).

Sobers hit the ball into the Torrens apparently so going by your theory the teams of the 1960's were the best of all time

[gadj1976]

I know there were better players around back in the 80's,but also were not as technical as they are now.Also their schedules were not as hectic but they also did not train as much then as they do now.Arguments both ways......Just watching hilights though I know it was calypso cricket but surely this current side was "Smarter" (probably due to technoligy) than the windies and no footwork against the current Australians means trouble.

I have this conversation regularly. I watched Botham on Fox at the MCG circa early 80's SMASH a ball to the boundary and he almost made it over the fence. I watch McDonald the next day (for Victoria) SMASH a ball OVER the boundary for six. Who's the bigger hitter? Who's the stronger? Who's the better timer? No one will ever know. I truly believe bat technology means that guys who couldn't normally clear the rope, could clear the rope.

That would mean playing against the Windies with the same bat technology would equate to a massive advantage.........scary. However, "drop in" pitches, increased training techniques and bowling analysis would all eat into that advantage of bat technology (possibly).

Sobers hit the ball into the Torrens apparently so going by your theory the teams of the 1960's were the best of all time

Yes, "apparently" he did (according to who?)

[Hondo]

I think the Windies of the late 70s/early 80s would just shade Steve Waugh's team but since my debate with 1980TM on this issue I have come around more to the Aussie's side.

Why? Because in hindsight I think thei Windies' batting wasn't as dominant as I remembered. Their batting averages don't stack up against the Aussies (different era I know) and I remember them being vulnerable to collapsing. The more I look at Viv's record the more I think he was a tad over-rated. I don't remember many huge scores and the Aussie bowlers of the time (Lillee especially) most times did OK against them. So why do I still think the Windies just ....? Their BOWLING.

The Chappell bros and others of the era all describe their attack as skillful, brutal, frightening, intimidating. You could bowl the Windies out for a reasonable score most times but 19 times out of 20 they would bowl you out for 100 less. So even with Warnie in our side I still couldn't get us over the line. But its definitely a JUST ....

[redandblack]

A few random thoughts:

The Windies team would beat Waugh's team, IMHO. Their attack was frightening, although they generally only bowled about 72 overs a day and there were 2 bouncers in every over, so it wasn't easy to score. The pace attack was brutal, though and it was unrelenting.

Their batting was more than handy. The openers were as good as anyone and Lloyd and Richards could win a game on their own. If you're going to judge Richards by his averages, give up cricket. He could get out for not many often, but when he didn't, he destroyed you.

Judging modern teams is more difficult, as the opposition is often mediocre. The team to judge against the Windies is Bradman's team, not the more recent teams.

It's obviously hard to judge teams of different eras. Scoring rates per over now are higher, I'd guess, but over rates are much slower. Now you see a batsman deceived in flight by a spinner, gets only a piece of the ball and it goes for 6 anyway because of bat technology.

A final thought - it used to be "line and length" - now you have to put the ball "in the right areas"

[westozfalcon]

I think Steve Waugh's 1999-2003 side eclipses The 1984/85 West Indies.

Shane Warne is by far the major factor influencing my opinion and I think he would have put the Windies batsmen to the sword.

Also Australia's fast bowling attack of McGrath, Lee and Gillespie would not be embarrassed compared to Holding, Marshall,Walsh and co.

My heart would cause me to vote for the Windies as I used to be in awe of them and loved their approach to the game - their sportsmanship was certainly better than that of Waugh's team.But in my mind Waugh's team would win out.

As for Larry Gomes being the weakest link for the WI that's rubbish.

For example, in that 1984 game in Perth that REB referred to where they bowled Australia out for 76, the West Windies were 6-211 in their first innings before Gomes and Dujon both scored centuries to take the total over 400. Gomes was a brilliant middle order anchorman.

[Hondo]

Perhaps a way to get perspective on the 2 sides (assuming they are the top 2) is to list them:

WI 1984
Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Gomes
Richards
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh

Aus 2001
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

What would the best XI of the 2 teams be? IMO Hayden has to get one of the opening spots, Punter has to make it and one of the Waughs (if not both). Gilly is better than Dujon and Warne & McGrath have to make 2 of the bowling spots.

So that makes at least 6 of the best XI from the Aust team IMO which is more than half. What do others think?

[locky801]

Damn hard to work that one out Hondo, gee the first 3 for the WINDIES the 5 and 6 would be in my side, bowlers probably Garner and Holding (Marshall would be unlucky to miss out as well)


Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Ponting
Richards
Lloyd
Gilchrist
Warne
Holding
Garner
McGrath


Only possible change could be S Waugh for Lloyd but a fit Clive was one of the most dominate batters around

[Hondo]

Locky I reckon Haydo's brilliant record has to earn him one of the openers spots. I'd prob go with Haynes & Hayden.

And while Lloyd was powerful and averaged 46 I couldn't have him in my theoretical XI ahead of both the Waughs. I'd slot in S Waugh for Lloyd personally. I think Marshall is one of the best bowlers of all time so he gets in my team before Holding. I'd also rate Richardson and M Waugh as line ball.

So mine would be:

Haynes
Hayden
Ponting
Richardson
Richards
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Marshall
Garner
McGrath

It's very tough!

[locky801]

doesn't matter which way you look at it, it would be an awesome side to play against if they were all on song

[Hondo]

doesn't matter which way you look at it, it would be an awesome side to play against if they were all on song

True

I guess I was just trying to show how close the 2 teams would have been if they played each other