3RD ASHES TEST EG V AU EDGBASTON 2009

[rod_rooster]

All this talk about Manou's batting makes no sense. He is playing as a wicket keeper. If he makes runs that's a bonus. Judge him on how he does behing the stumps.

Well done Watto. I hope he goes on with it tonight even though he is lucky to still be there. Even Mark Waugh and Alan Border agree with me that he should give the bowling away and focus on his batting. He shouldn't be opening but having said that he has made a good fist of it so far and looks pretty solid. I have all my fingers and toes crossed that he gets through the match injury free for both Australia's and his own sake.

[whufc]

All this talk about Manou's batting makes no sense. He is playing as a wicket keeper. If he makes runs that's a bonus. Judge him on how he does behing the stumps.
Well done Watto. I hope he goes on with it tonight even though he is lucky to still be there. Even Mark Waugh and Alan Border agree with me that he should give the bowling away and focus on his batting. He shouldn't be opening but having said that he has made a good fist of it so far and looks pretty solid. I have all my fingers and toes crossed that he gets through the match injury free for both Australia's and his own sake.

Unfortunatly Gilchrist set a new standard of what is expected from modern day wicket keepers.

A keeper who can average 40 an innings is probably more valuable than a keeper who is great behind the stumps but only averages 20 with the bat.

Lets be honest, if the bowlers bowl good length and LINE the keeper letting byes through doesn't come into play, and any international cricketer can drop a catch on any given day.

[RoosterMarty]

I never doubted you Watto.

Seriously though, great stuff so far.. good to see us bat first for once, and then score runs at such a quick pace.

England would be gutted that it didn't rain for the entire 5 days.

Also it is fantastic to see Manou make his debut, do SA proud.

[stan]

Manou to make his Test debut Haddin broke his finger just before the start of play. Great news for Manou. I am so pleased for him and well done England for allowing the late change.

There's a reason they did...

NFC Manou is a better keeper than Haddin. You'll struggle to find anyone who will disagree with that. Sure his batting is inconsistant but at least he will be tidy behind the stumps.

He was the worst keeper batsman in Australia for 5 or so years. Had one good year and now he finds himself playing for Aus, that's sad.

NFC, Manou's glove work is generally ok, an I see no problem with him being the second keeper at this stage, what ever he offers with the bat is pretty much a bonus.

[stan]

In the end though my opinion is this, With Watto, its a big gamble by the selectors, but hey the bloke has got his chance and so far he has done ok. If later he comes on and takes 2 or 3 wickets then christ the selectors will look like Miricale men.
As for Manou, well good luck to him.

Should be some interesting cricket. Good day all.

[mal]

Just another factor in the HADDIN excessive byes issue
I dont like comparing him to GILchrist but will for an example
HADDIN is keeping to at this stage with inferior bowling attacks
GILCHRIST did keep to superior bowling attacks

Point being HADDIN [becoz sides are scoring more against us these days] is keeping to higher innings totals
By definition he would be letting thru more byes to these totals

An example
IF Hadds kept to OOH AHH WARNEY BINGA + CLARKY he would be keeping in lower totals
He would also being out there less time perhaps concentrate a lot better ?

Keeping these days to an attack of SIZZLE/MJ/HILFY/HAURRIE means he is more prone to allow byes than had he had Gillys bowlers

FOOTNOTE
Who would you wanna keep to MCRATH or MJ
OOH AHH you only have to more or less move for the snicks
MJ you have to be more of a soccer player and dive all day

[Dogwatcher]

Just another factor in the HADDIN excessive byes issue
I dont like comparing him to GILchrist but will for an example
HADDIN is keeping to at this stage with inferior bowling attacks
GILCHRIST did keep to superior bowling attacks

Point being HADDIN [becoz sides are scoring more against us these days] is keeping to higher innings totals
By definition he would be letting thru more byes to these totals

An example
IF Hadds kept to OOH AHH WARNEY BINGA + CLARKY he would be keeping in lower totals
He would also being out there less time perhaps concentrate a lot better ?

Keeping these days to an attack of SIZZLE/MJ/HILFY/HAURRIE means he is more prone to allow byes than had he had Gillys bowlers

FOOTNOTE
Who would you wanna keep to MCRATH or MJ
OOH AHH you only have to more or less move for the snicks
MJ you have to be more of a soccer player and dive all day

Rubbish.
Healy kept to some ordinary attacks in the early days.
Didn't see him giving away as many byes.
Neither did Tim Zoehrer or Greg Dyer when Australia's attack was its weakest in generations.
I'm pretty certain Wayne Phillips, a reluctant keeper, didn't have this bad a problem either.
Haddin's bye tally is totally out of proportion to the "lack of quality" you proclaim is in this attack.
The reason he dives is because he's late to move and doesn't move his feet as much as he should.

[Lightning McQueen]

Just another factor in the HADDIN excessive byes issue
I dont like comparing him to GILchrist but will for an example
HADDIN is keeping to at this stage with inferior bowling attacks
GILCHRIST did keep to superior bowling attacks

Point being HADDIN [becoz sides are scoring more against us these days] is keeping to higher innings totals
By definition he would be letting thru more byes to these totals

An example
IF Hadds kept to OOH AHH WARNEY BINGA + CLARKY he would be keeping in lower totals
He would also being out there less time perhaps concentrate a lot better ?

Keeping these days to an attack of SIZZLE/MJ/HILFY/HAURRIE means he is more prone to allow byes than had he had Gillys bowlers

FOOTNOTE
Who would you wanna keep to MCRATH or MJ
OOH AHH you only have to more or less move for the snicks
MJ you have to be more of a soccer player and dive all day

Haddin is letting more byes through and dropping more catches because he is not very good. He is keeping to higher innings totals because he drops too many catches, he wouldn't have a hope in hell to keep to Warnie, he'd have to stand 5 metres behind the stumps to take a ball that turns.
McGrath would be harder to keep to because you'd be blinded by the batsman all of the time due to his stump to stump line, you'd have plenty of time to Mitch's deliveries as they are so wide that there would be nothing to impair your vision.

[rogernumber10]

I'm in the camp that says Haddin is just a 'keeper. Fine bat, but short of many keepers we've had and being judged strongly now because he's coming straight on the back of two of our greatest in history, and us older types can remember Rod Marsh as well.

[Dogwatcher]

Could you have imagined someone like Jack Russell using the excuse that he let so many byes through because he was keeping to rubbish attacks like Devon Malcolm and Martyn McCague and Allan Mulally???

[MAY-Z]

Could you have imagined someone like Jack Russell using the excuse that he let so many byes through because he was keeping to rubbish attacks like Devon Malcolm and Martyn McCague and Allan Mulally???

exactly or andy flower was a pretty tidy keeper, even adam parore and tehir attacks werent that good.

if haddin cant keep to hauritz how would he be able to do it against warne?

[Dogwatcher]

Stewart was an ordinary keeper too - but his bye tally wasn't that bad.

[Lightning McQueen]

I'm in the camp that says Haddin is just a 'keeper. Fine bat, but short of many keepers we've had and being judged strongly now because he's coming straight on the back of two of our greatest in history, and us older types can remember Rod Marsh as well.

Haddin goes "ok", he absolutely poohed himself on the morning of the last day when we needed him to stand up, he'd faced Freddy all of the previous afternoon but couldn't cut it with a fresh Freddy.

[CoverKing]

I'm in the camp that says Haddin is just a 'keeper. Fine bat, but short of many keepers we've had and being judged strongly now because he's coming straight on the back of two of our greatest in history, and us older types can remember Rod Marsh as well.

Haddin goes "ok", he absolutely poohed himself on the morning of the last day when we needed him to stand up, he'd faced Freddy all of the previous afternoon but couldn't cut it with a fresh Freddy.

that is ridicolous! poohed himself. he got out to him in freddys first over, i think haddins 3rd ball or so. he just got caught chasing a ball, he was feeling for ball on bat. nothing to do with poohing himself. NFI

[Lightning McQueen]

I'm in the camp that says Haddin is just a 'keeper. Fine bat, but short of many keepers we've had and being judged strongly now because he's coming straight on the back of two of our greatest in history, and us older types can remember Rod Marsh as well.

Haddin goes "ok", he absolutely poohed himself on the morning of the last day when we needed him to stand up, he'd faced Freddy all of the previous afternoon but couldn't cut it with a fresh Freddy.

that is ridicolous! poohed himself. he got out to him in freddys first over, i think haddins 3rd ball or so. he just got caught chasing a ball, he was feeling for ball on bat. nothing to do with poohing himself. NFI

He crapped himself, you could see after the first delivery that he wished he was up the other end. NFI whatever.

[CoverKing]

off that topic because u dont no what ur on about!

With the inclusion of Manou, and the ""Sportsmanship"" shown by Strauss, would the last test and him being labelled a cheat and his integrity questioned had any affect on allowing Manou to play? I understand it weakens our side aswell, but would that be in the back of Strauss' mind

[Lightning McQueen]

:roll:

off that topic because u dont no what ur on about!

With the inclusion of Manou, and the ""Sportsmanship"" shown by Strauss, would the last test and him being labelled a cheat and his integrity questioned had any affect on allowing Manou to play? I understand it weakens our side aswell, but would that be in the back of Strauss' mind

Are you the boss?

[RoosterMarty]

The claimed catch by Strauss last Test was disgusting but if he said no to us including Manou for the injured Haddin then that would almost be worse in my opinion. Words would not be able to describe my feelings towards the jarpie.

[rogernumber10]

Could you have imagined someone like Jack Russell using the excuse that he let so many byes through because he was keeping to rubbish attacks like Devon Malcolm and Martyn McCague and Allan Mulally???

I covered those series. I can't remember McCague or Mullally getting balls as far as the keeper and raising the issue of whether he would take them or not. Only seem to remember Michael Slater making a hell of a lot of runs through point, mid-wicket and square leg from a succession of half-trackers.

[Adelaide Hawk]

With the inclusion of Manou, and the ""Sportsmanship"" shown by Strauss, would the last test and him being labelled a cheat and his integrity questioned had any affect on allowing Manou to play? I understand it weakens our side aswell, but would that be in the back of Strauss' mind

I have no doubt that was precisely what he was thinking. He would be well aware that he escaped the wrath his counterpart would have received by the media if guilty of the same thing, but would also be smart enough to know more than a few eyebrows were raised.

He needs to tread very carefully for the rest of this series, and it makes a nice change to have both captains under the microscope rather than just the Aussie one.